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Japanese Fox vids and tier list!

A6M Zero

A6M Zero

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Sep 18, 2007
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646
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That's like asking why, after getting their *** kicked in WWII, why they hadn't copied our planes.

Our metagame has advanced further than theirs.




You need to keep in mind the Japanese don't have an SBR, which makes their tier lists a HELL of a lot less ignorant and biased than ours.
 
Face124

Face124

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Edinburgh. Pm for a Brawl and I'll get back to you
A6M Zero said:
That's like asking why, after getting their *** kicked in WWII, why they hadn't copied our planes.
Click to expand...
Not really. Thats if we were talking about an American vs a Japanese, in which case an American would probably win because they are campy and "cheap".

If it is a Japanese vs a Japanese, and they both play the same (or have the same plane), and money is at stake, why do they not copy the American cheap and campy way of playing (or the American planes) so that they win. Thats all I'm wondering.

And maybe their metagame hasn't advanced further than ours, but still, wouldn't they realise being campy and cheap is going to give them a better chance at winning? and even If they didn't realise, do you not think by now that some of them might have come over and looked at our tier list and ATs and stuff and copied it?
 
Y

Yagi

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A crew member/friend, who moved to Japan 3 years ago, told me Japanese tournaments are usually played without money involved. It is more of a honor/prestige type of thing. This was during the Melee days though, I have no idea if they treat their Brawl tourneys the same.
 
goldemblem

goldemblem

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or maybe their metagame has advanced way more than ours and our tier list is crap O_O
 
goldemblem

goldemblem

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But talking seriously, there are some seriously wrong things with that tier list, but i don't think things are as far from reality, their tier list seems at least "factible"
 
Jenkins

Jenkins

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wow that fox just totally overwhelmed everyone with his speed. the other person was so thrown off at fox just jumping all around them and being a difficult target to track. well, im gonna start using more full jumps. thanks for this :)
 
Yaya

Yaya

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If you and the **** are a lot alike you're on a very poor track to compete in the North American metagame..

(A6M Zero)
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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knuxrouge said:
Oh really?
So you know this for fact beyond simple analysis and speculation?
Click to expand...
They all play recklessly offensively. If they were to run into an American who plays Brawl as the defensive game it's supposed to be, they would get *****. They still play like it's Melee.
 
Karttibone

Karttibone

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Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
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Zürich, Switzerland
Wtf? I have never seen so many jumps in one match. And I' ve never seen someone playing so readable. He never uses his blaster, he never uses illusion to attack (but if he will I bet he will never use illusion shortening, it could ruin his attack X)
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Karttibone said:
Wtf? I have never seen so many jumps in one match. And I' ve never seen someone playing so readable. He never uses his blaster, he never uses illusion to attack (but if he will I bet he will never use illusion shortening, it could ruin his attack X)
Click to expand...
Why would you use illusion to attack?
 
Sukai

Sukai

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turn around....
marsulas said:
Why would you use illusion to attack?
Click to expand...
Quick, hard to read, not easily punishable. I use it to get away from my opponent after a KO, by the time they catch up, their invincibility frames are long gone.

Plus in my defense, Fox is a primary offensive/counter character. His defensive game is quite questionably one of the worst, not to say that I don't know how to work defensively.
I may have miss-worded what I was trying to say.
When I said that me and the Japanese play Fox alike, I was talking in terms of the attacks used. Dear me I am not recklessly offensive.
 
NeverKnowsBest

NeverKnowsBest

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knuxrouge said:
Quick, hard to read, not easily punishable. I use it to get away from my opponent after a KO, by the time they catch up, their invincibility frames are long gone.

Plus in my defense, Fox is a primary offensive/counter character. His defensive game is quite questionably one of the worst, not to say that I don't know how to work defensively.
I may have miss-worded what I was trying to say.
When I said that me and the Japanese play Fox alike, I was talking in terms of the attacks used. Dear me I am not recklessly offensive.
Click to expand...
o_O

Fox an offensive character?
 
Sukai

Sukai

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Yup. Fox can really lay the smack down on just about any character.
But because of his bad approaching, people often tend to (make the mistake of) be(ing too) defensive with him, which is why mindgames exist.
Not only that, but his dodges can be punished easily, and shielding will get predictable as well, which is why I use actual movement to dodge alot of attacks.
keep in mind that I also said that Fox is also a counter character(not as per say a counter-pick, but a character who can punish predictable or otherwise guarded attacks), his punishing can be deadly and if used effectively can turn the tables on the fight.
Playing defensively isn't always the best advisable method, because your options are not that big.
My Fox is primarily offensive, most of the time I take advantage of my opponent's defensive stance or state of mind, one of the best ways to do this is to camp. Unless you're a character who can duck under this, you're going to have to do something...Jump canceled shine works well too on defensive characters, as they expect an attack, they'll sidestep dodge (or spot dodge as it known in the smash community) or shield. But the time thats taken up by the decent stall, those invincibility frames would end and then its down air punishing time, if they roll dodge, then I'll double jump and either repeat the process, or reset the battlefield by retreating.
I'm disappointed by people making a defensive stance sound so good. Smash was never about defense, defense is just a temporary tactic used to prevent mishaps on occasion. Most of the smash videos I've seen was just an exchange of offense and counter offense.
In no smash game was defense a fully effective tactic.
In 64, the name of the game was power.
In Melee, the name of the game was speed.
In Brawl, the name of the game is range/priority.
:P
 
NeverKnowsBest

NeverKnowsBest

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knuxrouge said:
Yup. Fox can really lay the smack down on just about any character.
But because of his bad approaching, people often tend to (make the mistake of) be(ing too) defensive with him, which is why mindgames exist.
Not only that, but his dodges can be punished easily, and shielding will get predictable as well, which is why I use actual movement to dodge alot of attacks.
keep in mind that I also said that Fox is also a counter character(not as per say a counter-pick, but a character who can punish predictable or otherwise guarded attacks), his punishing can be deadly and if used effectively can turn the tables on the fight.
Playing defensively isn't always the best advisable method, because your options are not that big.
My Fox is primarily offensive, most of the time I take advantage of my opponent's defensive stance or state of mind, one of the best ways to do this is to camp. Unless you're a character who can duck under this, you're going to have to do something...Jump canceled shine works well too on defensive characters, as they expect an attack, they'll sidestep dodge (or spot dodge as it known in the smash community) or shield. But the time thats taken up by the decent stall, those invincibility frames would end and then its down air punishing time, if they roll dodge, then I'll double jump and either repeat the process, or reset the battlefield by retreating.
I'm disappointed by people making a defensive stance sound so good. Smash was never about defense, defense is just a temporary tactic used to prevent mishaps on occasion. Most of the smash videos I've seen was just an exchange of offense and counter offense.
In no smash game was defense a fully effective tactic.
In 64, the name of the game was power.
In Melee, the name of the game was speed.
In Brawl, the name of the game is range/priority.
:P
Click to expand...
I don't know but I pretty camping is categorized as defensive.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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No, in Brawl the name of the game is sitting on one side of FD playing like a little *****.
 
SmashBrother2008

SmashBrother2008

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^^^What are you discussing Brawl for anyway? Try to be a little optimistic, face it Brawl is different and if you don't like it go play the other ones.
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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Yeah, Marsulas was just making a point...he's one of the cool people on this board, so no fights with him, now. lol


I'm still curious, though... Everybody has been saying how the Japanese style is offensive, and they play honorably and don't camp/cg/etc...

So again, how are Falco and ROB that high on their teir list? I'm really, really curious about this...because, imo, Falco doesn't have all that much in this game besides cg and lasers...not to the point where I could se him being top tier without them.
And Rob has some interesting stuff, but I'd really like to know how he would fare so darn well without camping...


I also remember even before brawl came out. the first video I saw of DDD had a japanese DDD player CGing an ike all over the place on one of the Gamestop demo location setups.
So I don't know that a "well, they just play honorably" is a reasonable explanation for this.. I really wish somebody here could just...ask them.
 
Sukai

Sukai

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ROB definitely doesn't deserve his position.
And if he does, then Sonic deserves to be higher up, because Sonic can whip ROB's ***.
I've seen it, I've experienced it.
Sonic is also one of the harder targets to spike with ROB.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Fenrir VII said:
Yeah, Marsulas was just making a point...he's one of the cool people on this board, so no fights with him, now. lol


I'm still curious, though... Everybody has been saying how the Japanese style is offensive, and they play honorably and don't camp/cg/etc...

So again, how are Falco and ROB that high on their teir list? I'm really, really curious about this...because, imo, Falco doesn't have all that much in this game besides cg and lasers...not to the point where I could se him being top tier without them.
And Rob has some interesting stuff, but I'd really like to know how he would fare so darn well without camping...


I also remember even before brawl came out. the first video I saw of DDD had a japanese DDD player CGing an ike all over the place on one of the Gamestop demo location setups.
So I don't know that a "well, they just play honorably" is a reasonable explanation for this.. I really wish somebody here could just...ask them.
Click to expand...
I actually enjoy Brawl, I just made a bad joke lol.

I don't know, i've seen some Snake vids where the Japanese player used grenades more than anyone I had ever seen..........so I guess it really does depend on the character. I just feel that they play Fox a little reckless and that is not advised if you wish to have success over here.

Fenrir, if you think ROB only camps.............go watch NinjaLink on the ROB boards. The stuff he does with that little Dredel is amazing. Items are a very big part of ROBs game, but instead of using them defensively........he uses them in an aggressive manner. It's really enjoyable to watch. I used to have that opinion of ROB myself until I witnessed his ROB.
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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marsulas said:
I actually enjoy Brawl, I just made a bad joke lol.

I don't know, i've seen some Snake vids where the Japanese player used grenades more than anyone I had ever seen..........so I guess it really does depend on the character. I just feel that they play Fox a little reckless and that is not advised if you wish to have success over here.

Fenrir, if you think ROB only camps.............go watch NinjaLink on the ROB boards. The stuff he does with that little Dredel is amazing. Items are a very big part of ROBs game, but instead of using them defensively........he uses them in an aggressive manner. It's really enjoyable to watch. I used to have that opinion of ROB myself until I witnessed his ROB.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've seen a lot of grenades and such, too. That's basically my point... The Japanese aren't just playing "honorably"... they have their own style here. I, too, agree that the Japanese Foxes I've seen are really wreckless... I just am trying to figure this out. I mean, maybe the wreckless, walling strat isn't actually that bad, and applies enough pressure to make Fox's game work. I really have no idea here.

And yeah, I don't think ROB only camps or anything like that...I've seen some sick item heavy glide toss stuff out there. I just think his ability to camp is a high point of his game... The twitchy, gyro heavy ROBs are REALLY weird to play against, but it seems like it's just something you get used to and can then punish pretty hard. oh well...
 
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