We saw one instance of a bowser who had no idea what he was doing vs a wario that did, and that's enough to rule the matchup unfavorable? That's really quick judgment.
And I like how Ally can totally insult an entire project and people let it slide just because he's Ally. That's pretty bada$$.
I think its time for me to weigh in on this. There are a few points that I think everyone should consider. This is unless you want to read my wall of texts, which I know most of you don't.
1. Bite to rebite is only a legit true combo if Bowser DI's up. Don't DI up unless you're at really high %.
2. Bite to tech-chase bite or nair isn't guaranteed at any%.
3. King Kong isn't good at this matchup at all, and doesn't adapt. He never combo breaks, misses crucial techs, and continually jumps into the bite when if he had spaced better it would have been fine.
DI down at low % and tech (tech roll away if applicable). If Wario approaches you can up-b him.
You don't need to DI at high %. If he tries to combo just fair. It comes out on frame 6 and beats the bite if spaced right.
This topic is going the wrong way and I can tell you now Veril is raging and gonna hand out infractions.
No, that's not the case at all. Though these threads are often frustrating, when someone at Ally's level posts, I pay close attention to what they are saying... while pacing, chain-smoking and drinking black coffee of course... thinking of a smart and appropriate response to what he's said.
Bowser counter?: adv vs. Bowser: 26, bite comes out frame 8, 5 frame jump startup.
aerial followup window: 21
DI and teching advantage: ~10
combo break options:
-Up-b: inv, hits frame 6
-nair: hits frame 6
-fair: hits frame 6
-side-b: hits fairly late but allows for isjr fair which properly spaced will beat the bite iirc.
No guarenteed low% followups if the bowser DI's down and techs (or tech rolls). No guarenteed followups at high %. Don't jump into the ****.
I'm going what players should do when confronted with epic b*******: try to get around it, understand what's actually happening and how it could be escaped. Wario's bite isn't massively better advantage-wise than a good throw. It is certainly really good, but it isn't an infinite or even a high % loop.
Here's the basic rundown of bite to bite: Its got 10 frames of lag, so you can't read DI on reaction, it has to be predicted. But its got lots of hitstun, ~36+ frames. So you've got a starting advantage of about 26, on Bowser if the Bowser doesn't DI. Take away 5 for the jump startup and you've got an adv of 21... the bite grabs of frame 8. So purely on paper, without taking knockback or DI or teching or ANYTHING into account, its possible to do. You also can hit with the sex kick portion of nair and combo that into bite.
If you take knockback into account this only works at low % on bowser. At higher % it won't even be a real string. If you take DI and tech-
rolling (and not CPing rainbow cruise >.<) into account, its just not as dominating as it seems in those matches cause the advantage isn't high enough for Wario to have any guaranteed followups.
The Bowser he played, whether he is bad or good, completely failed to adapt to the bite and made an enormous number of technical errors. The grounded bite does not true combo into aerial bite, even frame perfect, at anything beyond low %. Even without DI... even on Bowser. The beginning of the third match is a great example of how King Kongs technical mistakes led to the **** that Ally inflicted.
First, he missed a tech. At really low% you have to DI down and tech with Bowser, otherwise its a true combo into a grab, which in turn combos back into bite at very low %. Instead of even rolling away, he got bit again and gimped. Once Bowser gets to about 50% or so, the bite can't combo into anything other than possibly DACUS. Bowser should NEVER DI UP unless he's risking getting put offstage at high % (when nothing will string or combo from bite anyway). DI down and away to tech-roll at low % and Wario has no guaranteed followups. At higher %, if you are above the stage you can actually do a retreating klaw hop and Wario can't bite or nair you before you can properly space an fair.
tl;dr: King Kong failed to tech or combo break properly. I replicated all the non-lolcruise situations frame perfect. The bite is not as good as Ally makes it appear.
