It's the friggin Koopa King....The tank that is Near Gold Bowser.

[CountKaiser]

That'd be something for Project M to look into.

 

[Alphatron]

I get lucky, most of the time, i don't care if i get hit, or if i miss, i have total faith and rely on bowser's heavy defense to tank through any damage my opponent hits me with. I usually avoid being attacked simply because i keep my opponent on their toes, doing attacks and changing my pattern to decrease the odds of being read and punished.

Ah. I saw a couple of times in your vid that your opponent would instinctively shield the DownB even though they weren't going to be hit by it. Then, by the time they let go of their shield, you're already out of lag. I see what you mean though as I stopped throwing it out as much and I've been landing it a bit more often. Especially against characters who don't have enormous hitboxes on their fairs and uairs.

I want the chomp to be his new pummel, provided it has the same amount of frames as the one he has now. Then there'd be no reason to deny it.

 

[Veril]

I want the chomp to be his new pummel, provided it has the same amount of frames as the one he has now. Then there'd be no reason to deny it.

Interesting idea for an aesthetic fix.

@The rest of the Bowser+ posters: how would you feel about that cosmetic change?

 

[RPGsFTW]

I want the chomp to be his new pummel, provided it has the same amount of frames as the one he has now. Then there'd be no reason to deny it.

^YES, please, Veril! <333

That'd be way too cool.

 

[BadGuy]

Interesting idea for an aesthetic fix.

@The rest of the Bowser+ posters: how would you feel about that cosmetic change?

The only issue with bite as his new pummel is that it's so fast, you can't even tell that he's biting, there needs to be some slight slow down on the animation and maybe some tinkering in the animation to make it look like a bite. Maybe increase the damage to 2 per bite in exchange for the slowed down pummel speed?

Definitely contact Jiangjunizzy about that, he's the guy who designed it.

 

[Veril]

I'm not making gameplay changes to facilitate an aesthetic change. Sorry. I'll definitely talk to Jiang about this though cause bite pummel would be sexy.

 

[Daakun]

From the B+ topic on Code Sets:

Hmm... there seems to be a problem with Bowser's aerial upb. Everytime I got hit with it while Bowser was recovering, it dragged me along with him but I was able to get out of the hitstun before the landing lag ended and was able to throw him off the stage again repeatedly. Maybe give the end a little knockback so they don't end up right next to you?

Seconded. If someone manages to get hit by it, they don't deserve a free shot at knocking us off again.

 

[Alphatron]

^100% agree. No...300% agree. If I could multiply myself to agree several times, I would. I've experienced that a number of times already and it's just awful.

Against Jigglypuff, this means a FREE REST every time Bowser tries to recover. Jiggs takes about 20% dmg and kills Bowser, which is a nice tradeoff since Whirling Fortress doesn't have any kill power in the air. Against Link, it's a free whatever the hell he wants. Against any character, Bowser will usually find himself off stage yet again or just plain dead.

His recovery is already awful. There is no way to ever land on the stage safely with his UpB aside from having the move end after Bowser is already on land (kind of like DK's UpB). The only safe thing to do is to go for the ledge, which becomes predictable or get lucky and hope that your opponent doesn't read where you'll land(what I resort to doing).

Recovery wise, Bowser's UpB shouldn't be buffed with kill power or even become a GTFO move. Your opponent just shouldn't have the ability to sloppily edgeguard a character who is already easily edgeguarded, and still kill him for it. Link's aerial UpB knockback got buffed, Ike's SideB recovery doesn't send him into freefall anymore after he slashes. The only character left in this game aside from Bowser whose recovery will kill him if he hits his opponent is Ness. But Ness' PKT2 does a whopping 25-30% dmg AND has kill power. And even when it doesn't kill the enemy, they aren't edgeguarding him again afterwards.

This is mostly me ranting, but I want to see what the rest of you guys think.

 

[BadGuy]

A buff for bowser's up b huh? I wouldn't be against it, and it would be nice not having to worry about being counter attacked while recovering to the ledge, but i usually avoided that problem to begin with, by not attacking my opponent with my up b in mid air to being with. Either aim for the ledge or aim far away on the other side of the stage, pretend im going to the other side of the stage and go to the ledge instead, or attack my opponent with it on purpose, switch it up, and it'll decrease the chances of being edge guarded. Mix up your recovery patterns, there is no "truly safe" recovery strategy, only safer.

 

[Alphatron]

I'm not punished every time I use Bowser's UpB, nor do I use it as an aerial attack. It's that the minute I do use the UpB, I have someone jump offstage and into the attack, simply so they can hit me again afterwards due to aerial UpB being punishable on hit. In my experience, being punished after that is only avoided by grabbing the ledge. Even then, I've been stage spiked by Kirby in that way before.

 

[BadGuy]

So Brawl+ Gold Finally came out and bowser's new up b is really...overpowered imo.
While spinning in mid air, it only hits once and it hits in a gimp angle. That's a great buff for bowser, but the problem is, it's too good. The attack is drastically powerful and launches your opponent very far away at a low angle, while recovering, anyone else see what im talking about?

 

[Alphatron]

Haven't gotten the new set yet so I wouldn't know. Although I seriously hope I had no influence on that buff. Was solely ranting as I usually do but I could have dealed with aerial UpB being crappy. I'm hoping it only seems initially good.

 

[matt4300]

Just a thought but couldnt you guys have just left the move alone and given the landing animation a hitbox?

That would fix 2 of his problems.

 

[Veril]

I'm sure you all know much more about Bowser than Cape (who proposed and made these changes), and obviously must have lots of high level experience to make these statements.
/sarcasm

His aerial up-b is better, but saying its OP after a day and some wifi friendlies is just silly. Bowser has the shortest ledgegrab range in the game and his up-b has a very poor vertical recovery. He also did crazy amounts of damage with the multihit before and now that isn't the case.

Other changes to Bowser: from 6.0 to gold
*F-smash to 361 -> 45°
*Bair 361° -> 20°: now matches strong hit

 

[RPGsFTW]

Bowser has the shortest ledgegrab range in the game and his up-b has a very poor vertical recovery.

Other changes to Bowser: from 6.0 to gold
*Bair 361° -> 20°: now matches strong hit

Oh, ****. I never knew about Bowser's ledgegrab range being that bad. Can I see a list for all characters, puh lease?

And I don't know how to read the angle changes correctly. I'd assume that 361 degrees just made a little over a circle, but I know that shouldn't be the case.

 

[CountKaiser]

361 is 169 in hex, which is that pesky sakurai angle.

 

[RPGsFTW]

361 is 169 in hex, which is that pesky sakurai angle.

Alrighty, but 160 degrees upwards without DI then, or is it including Sakurai Angle DI.

I assume 20 degrees launches downward, like Melee Bowser Bair? Sorry, I don't understand the stuff well.

 

[CountKaiser]

No, the sakurai angle is the auto-di angle people were mentioning earlier. The angle a move this angle sends at is dependent upon the power of the move and the percent of the victim.

20 degrees is considered a virtual semispike angle because, due to the weight of the victims, it almost never sends at a perfect 20 degree angle, but rather it sends at a horizontal angle in practice.

 

[RPGsFTW]

^Alrighty. I only guess Melee Bowser semi-spike like, because 20 degrees is a small amount, so I assumed it'd go downwards.

 

[Veril]

The sakurai angle is tbh, mystery bs. If you want to hear a massive rant about what I've seen from that angle in testing than well, catch me at the right time in the irc.

One important thing about the sakurai angle is it allows the move to induce trips at low%, randomly. The problem with this in most cases is that it breaks the flow of the match and there's no real way to capitalize on it... and it makes no godd*** sense at all.

 

[ZeonStar]

So, Im having a problem with counterpicking Chad in B+, His main is lucas, So ill go to Bowser for counterpicking his lucas the first match.

Second match, he pulls out falcon, hes very pro with falcon, as he is a top player in melee, and the skills obviously transfer over. Now either I dont know the falcon matchup with bowser, or Falcon just destroys bowser in every way.

Dont get me wrong though, I am very very good with bowser in B+, but I dont know the matchup that well, and I havent put an enourmous amount of time into him like I have Ganondorf. But im wondering if anyone knows how a top bowser vs falcon match would play out. I cant stay my main, Ganon in this matchup vs lucas, as its too one sided, so he pulls out falcon for an almost gauranteed win, thoughts?

 

[Rudra]

I sometimes fight a Falcon in B+ (not so much anymore). From my experience he'd try to get lots of damage/kills in from grab combos. If you see him rushing in with nairs, you can try to trade/beat it with angled FTilt. If he manages to get in front of you and you're certain he'll try the Jab>Jab>Grab trick, you can CC them and dtilt to avoid the grab (or attempt to shieldgrab before he grabs...). If he's in front of you and shielding you can try to do some jab cancels to tilts to push him out of shieldgrab range or into down B for a lot more shield damage.

Firebreath is useful for making him take damage while recovering or forcing him to recover really low, and DSmash can outlast the ledge invincibility iirc. UpB OoS is still a good way to relieve pressure, but I normally wouldnt abuse it that much because of how hard he can punish a predicted one.

Does he take you to any stage(s) in particular when CPing you?

 

[Bandit]

So, Im having a problem with counterpicking Chad in B+, His main is lucas, So ill go to Bowser for counterpicking his lucas the first match.

Second match, he pulls out falcon, hes very pro with falcon, as he is a top player in melee, and the skills obviously transfer over. Now either I dont know the falcon matchup with bowser, or Falcon just destroys bowser in every way.

Dont get me wrong though, I am very very good with bowser in B+, but I dont know the matchup that well, and I havent put an enourmous amount of time into him like I have Ganondorf. But im wondering if anyone knows how a top bowser vs falcon match would play out. I cant stay my main, Ganon in this matchup vs lucas, as its too one sided, so he pulls out falcon for an almost gauranteed win, thoughts?

UpB OoS.

If he's rushing you down with SH Nairs or any other move for that matter, this is your best option. It'll force him to approach differently which may put you in a better situation. In fact, if any character ever hits your shield, this is the action you should take.

Bowser should camp this hard.

 

[cobaltblue]

Don't attempt to grab Falcon on block. Falcon is insanely good at creating space between himself and you with his moves.

 

[ZeonStar]

Ill post videos from the next tournament, Ill go bowser and see what happens.

Nah, Chad usually avoids crazy stages, as he realizes that stupid **** can happen to either person on them. So its usually a neutral. I tried to stay ganon last time against lucas, knowing that I would have had to deal with his falcon in the bowser vs falcon matchup. But I payed dearly for that, so im going bowser next time and seeing what happens.

The good thing about me winning the first match with bowser though is that the third match I can CP any stage and go Ganon against his falcon. Im fairly confident in that matchup.

 

[Rayku]

Good stuff Zeon for destroying Chad's Lucas and almost me this past weekend

 

[ZeonStar]

Yeah, if theres a next time, you better be ready for UPB again.

 

[ZeonStar]

So yeah, I was able to achieve 2nd with Bowser at a tournament recently, ill post all of the match videos here. Ill post the Grand Finals later(im at work right now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU0r6xutqns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAyoAbkDTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozwlDh1nvNM

 

[eisley]

those were some intense matches, sucks that whenever you played bowser, Lucario could take you from 0-70+ from a single combo. Nevertheless, you did awesome! :D

 

[ZeonStar]

Heres the Grand Final matches. Since I came from the losers bracket, It was 2 sets, as I beat him the first set. Pretty intense stuff. Definetely learned alot from the matches though, I feel like my game improves drastically each time I play.

Set 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rkz1DhN-Ec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4IBaBzC1RY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-WYuDYsOcc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSn4QEbtuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_yx4TIcF4

Set 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHQKc9w6Fs4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMEAWVC8GNY&feature=related

(I think we forgot to save the third match)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i2gDyr_EPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9stDWvLlI5g