Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[PowerBomb]

Swimming goggles paradox? Feraligatr would miss the extra speed...

So does anyone think that with Encourage, a mixed set would be viable for Feraligatr?

 

[Gates]

No. Feraligatr just doesn't have the special attack to make a mixed set viable, even with Encourage boosts.

Does Encourage cancel out the locked in part of Outrage? Or at least the confusion part?

 

[JOE!]

depends, which Spec moves does he learn that benifit?

Ice Beam, Blizzard, Boiling Water*, Ancient Power?

Boiling water has a BP of 180 with stab and encourage...

AP im not sure has a "secondary effect"

 

[Wave⁂]

I agree with everything, Gates, with the exception of Kyuremu. Its STAB attacks are redundant, and its Stealth Rock weakness could be a big factor if the frequency of usage of entry hazards doesn't change too much (it probably will, but you never know).

 

[Pete278]

The minute we leave one unbanned........we will want to leave others as well. There are going to be be surefire bans within the first week for sure, but we should give all 600 whatnot pokemon a chance, even if they only last a few days in the new OU

But, by banning within the first few days, it's impossible to prove if it was a knee jerk reaction or a proper ban. Bans shouldn't really be started until the metagame begins to settle, and by that point, Arceus and the 680 BST pals would be rocking **** up. So, you'd either ban them in a situation that still leaves it open for debate, or play Ubers for a while. So, yeah, anything in that 'stupidly high BST range' should really just be autobanned (excluding Regigigas and Slaking of course). I'm full game for any of the currently uber 600 BSTs, and Wobbuffet and Wynaut, etc., but the others just seem like it'd be damaging the metagame briefly for not much gain.

And really, only trolls are going to argue that Mewtwo should be legal in OU.

Course, I do expect BL to be completely reset.

So, yeah, basically what Gates said. >>

 

[UltiMario]

Well, I'll start with posting some movesets...

Kerudio@Leftovers
Timid/Justice Heart
4HP/252SpA/252Spe (in progress... but Speed definitely is 252)
Calm Mind
Surf / Hydro Pump
Focus Blast / Close Combat
HP Electric

A simple CM set abusing amazing STABs, and using HP Electric as coverage against some pesky Pokemon that resist the combo (Slowbro, the new Water/Ghost, and Gyarados are examples). Surf is for reliability, Hydro Pump is for Power, but with 129 SpA and a CM up, you might not need it. Focus Blast is the more standard STAB, albeit unreliable, but there's no room for HP Fighting on the set, so it's you have to use FB for special Fighting. If you're really afraid of Blissey, you can use Close Combat, but that might even warrant Naive and a Cheer Up set. And again, HP Electric is so you don't get walled.

Thoughts?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Where are you getting the sprites, UltiMario? I can theorymon some stuff if I could find sprites.

 

[UltiMario]

I'm going to veekun for them.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Espeon is an incredible lead, for now. Once people get smart and start running attacking leads, then things will work out. Spiritomb lead's a good counter.

 

[SilentVerse]

I'm really liking Jaroda. It didn't look great at first, but a Perversity / Contrarian Leaf Storm, though weak at first, is ridiculous. Even though it lacks a large movepool and coverage, a combination of Sub and Leech Seed can easily wear down its counters. Its natural bulk also aids it, as it can survive random priority moves and hit hard. I haven't tested its other sets yet, but right now, it looks like this is definitely going to a excellent set on Jaroda.

Jaroda @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Timid Nature / Perversity
24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power Ice, Fire, or Ground
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Come in on a resisted attack, set up a Substitute, and act accordingly. If Jaroda can't touch the opposing Pokemon with its attacks, use Leech Seed to weaken it. Otherwise, just Leaf Storm to boost your Special Attack and proceed to hit things hard. Hidden Power Ice hits Dragons, Hidden Power Fire hits Steels, while Hidden Power Ground has good all around coverage with Leaf Storm.

The EVs give Jaroda as much power as possible. A Timid Nature and 232 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed +Speed Base 110s, which iirc are the closest speed tier to Jaroda's Base 113 Speed. The rest are dumped into HP to give Jaroda some extra bulk.



Anyways, I tried a couple of test battles against Tomo Takino and UltiMario and it was pretty good. It could stall out Tomo's Urugamosu easily with Leech Seed, and then it often proceeded to sweep with Leaf Storm, using HP Ice to deal with Dragons and such.

 

[UltiMario]

Might post this on Smogon as well, but I'll put it here first.

Anti-Lead Genie
Torunerosu@Lum Berry
[Naive/Timid]/Mischievous Heart
8Atk/252SpA/248Spe
Taunt
Gale (Wind Storm in PO)
Grass Knot
U-Turn

The Borutorosu (Electric Genie) can run a rather similar set to this, with Thunderbolt rather than Gale, however, Gale is the exact reason Torunerosu has something over his Electric-typed brother. Assuming the Gen V lead metagame looks ANYTHING like the Gen IV lead metagame, the power coming from Gale is highly appreciated. Gale can OHKO opponents like Machamp and Celebi with ease. Gale, while unreliable in accuracy, is a potent killer. Along with it comes Grass Knot for taking on Bulky Ground and Water Leads like Swampert, Hippowdon, and Donphan. The other two moves, Taunt and U-Turn, obviously is for nullifying leads and U-Turning out to see what an opponent will do in response. Due to Mischievous Heart, Speed isn't an issue when Taunting (you still need to run 248 speed for beating Base 110s in general). Unfortunately, one big lead you're never going to put any dents in (other than Taunting, of course) is Metagross, so I recommend partnering this guy with Shanderaa or Magnezone (or if you want to be REALLY safe, stick a Balloon on them as well to ensure someone doesn't predict your switch and ruin it with a Surprise Earthquake) to take some of the pesky steels that bother this set.

Thoughts?

 

[PD4FR]

I posted this in the other thread, but nobody wold answer me, lol.

I'm a Pokenoob, so don't get mad at me if I'm wrong, but I noticed that Uproar got a pretty large attack boost. It's now 90 power and still has the same abilities as it did before. Could this be used?

 

[Wave⁂]

Uproar's secondary effect is too situational and not worth the tradeoff of low power and rampaging.

 

[Kofu]

Uproar doesn't result in Confusion and never has.

 

[PD4FR]

Uproar's secondary effect is too situational and not worth the tradeoff of low power, rampaging, and confusion.

Oh well, I just thought it could work against those Pokemon who like to use rest.

 

[UltiMario]

I've found use of it in CC when some stupid thing Yawns me and I just happen to have it lol.

I'm sure if someone really wanted to they could try to use it...

 

[Kofu]

What.

Why does Chatot have more Special Attack than Exploud?

This is depressing...

But yeah, Uproar still doesn't have much use, unfortunately.

 

[Pete278]

Probably the most basic and obvious set in the world, but nonetheless...

Choice Spider
Denchura@Choice Specs
Modest Nature / Compoundeyes
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd
Thunder
Volt Charge
Bug Buzz
HP Fire

So, it's an obvious all-out choice set. You could easily go Scarf, but I felt Specs was more necessary, since his base Speed of 108 is fine, but his Sp Attack at 97 could use a bit of a buff. Compoundeyes brings Thunder to 91% accuracy, if it works the way I think it works, while is plenty accurate for a move at base 180 after STAB, and should dent heavily any non-ground pokemon. Volt Charge is for scouting, definitely not as useful as U-Turn due to the existance of Ground pokemon, but still good. Bug Buzz is for additional meaty stab, and HP Fire for coverage.

The main thing this guy has over Jolteon is a) Thunder is stupidly strong and b) Thunder paralyzes relatively regularly, allowing you to disable the enemy team with more ease than you would with Jolteon. In addition, Bug Buzz being there for additional STAB is also fairly good, and will wear down ground pokemon with much more ease than Jolteon would, more so due to Bug resisting ground and making Denchura neutral to ground overall. Jolteon's still probably better in the end, but Denchura does have a few notable strengths over the Jolteon.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I can't get into Veekun or whatever to use those sprites...

Hm.

 

[Kofu]

Veekun's just really swamped right now.

Download, unzip. Bingo, you get sprites.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Thanks. Unfortunately the file isn't recognized by my laptop. Oh well.

I'll post up some of my ideas later.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Articuno got Snow Cloak.

it is now the greatest subroost staller ever.

 

[Pete278]

Gliscor got Poison Heal, so, I'd say he's better.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@ Leftovers / Life Orb
Mold Breaker / Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
~ Dragon Dance
~ Substitute
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake

Standard Dragon Dancing set. Skarmory laughs at you but whatever. Substitute helps evade Yawn, and other status stuff.

 

[Kofu]

Gliscor got Poison Heal, so, I'd say he's better.

Roost appears to be illegal with Poison Heal, however.

 

[Gates]

Skarmory laughs at you but whatever.

Fire Blast instead of Sub.

Problem solved.

 

[Wrath`]

Mixolydia (Meloia-S) @ Black Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 SAtk / 58 Spd
Mild Nature
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Cheer Up

I think it looks like a good mixed set, I am trying to be more competitive this gen, so I thought I'd get my feet wet with making movesets.(Hope this doesn't suck)

 

[Gates]

I would run 58 Atk and 200 Spe.

Psychic gives terrible type coverage so you'll probably want to change it to something else or change Thunder Wave to an attacking move. Something like

Cheer Up
Close Combat
Shadow Ball/Claw
Hidden Power Fire

might work.

 

[Kofu]

If only Meloetta was able to start the battle in her Step Forme. She's not.

The move "Ancient Voice" or something like that is required to do it, and it only happens in-battle.

Still, it's not a bad move on its own; 75 Base Power, Normal (so STAB), and Serene Grace boosts its Sleep chance to 20%.

 

[Wrath`]

Yeah psychic isn't good on Step forme, so I'll give your set a try.

PO is letting me start in step forme, and ancient voice isn't even listed.

NVM it wasn't in fighting forme.

 

[Kofu]

Ancient Voice is an event move that you can only teach Meloetta for this purpose, so eh.

I guess we'll find out once the event is actually released.

 

[Fuelbi]

Kojondo (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -HP)
- U-turn
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab


Thought I'd share Jaroda check I guess.

 

[Wrath`]

Flash (Agirudaa) (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Spikes
- U-turn
- Desperation


Only Sand Throw Steel Mole of doom out speeds this.

Can get two layers of spikes, Desperation if they throw a fighting weak pokemon out, 1hp Desperation is powerfull.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Salemence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overconfidence
4 HP/ 252 Attack/ 252 Speed
Outrage
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Thunder Fang

This has had great success so far today.

 

[Gates]

What nature, Crashic?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Why Thunder Fang and not Fire Fang, Tomo?

 

[E123-omega]

Either way you hit skarmory super effectively

 

[UltiMario]

Without Fire Fang, you lose coverage on various other steels, like Forry and Grass/Steel guy.

 

[E123-omega]

Forgot about that.

 

[PowerBomb]

Gyarados laughs at you, then.