Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Terywj [태리]]

TL;DR - This thread is used for the discussion, evaluating, and theorymon of the competitive aspects of Pokemon Black and White and only the competitive aspects of Pokemon Black and White. This literally covers everything - new Pokemon, their abilities, typing, and stats to new Technical Machines to Dream World Pokemon and their new abilities.

I'll let you guys take over from there and I'll compose a short list of evaluations and theorymon afterwards.

Edit - For those of you who don't wish to see spoilers from Black and White then this thread is not for you.

 

[Wave⁂]

Dream World abilities in competitive play? I'm inclined to say no, probably a separate tier for Dream World.

 

[Wrath`]

What is wrong with D-World abilities? It would be just as bad if they just outright gave them a secondary ability without D-World. These abilities are going to give some NU/UU Pokemon a chance to rise if the BW Pokemon don't screw that all up.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm only going to contributing in bits, so here we go.

Drought Ninetales - Um, I dunno how this is going to work out. She immediately gets to spam Fire Blast and Solarbeam, and then Shadow Ball / Hidden Power to round off coverage. Hypnosis could help out too.

Technician Breloom - Will Mach Punch be more used than Focus Punch? Probably not on Subtitute + Spore sets but a unique spread with Mach Punch could completely be viable.

Guts Flareon - Lol.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Guts Flareon has the potential to be awesome depending on its movepool.

...odds are that won't change much though.

Think of it like a Snorlax.

 

[Wave⁂]

Ninetales gets Nasty Plot.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ninetales gets Nasty Plot.

*FaceGroudon*

Blaziken has Speed Boost. Along with Bulk Up we have an interesting Baton Pass ploy.

 

[Wave⁂]

*FaceGroudon*

Blaziken has Speed Boost. Along with Bulk Up we have an interesting Baton Pass ploy.

...why would you Baton Pass away when you could sweep the hell out of everything?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Because you could Baton Pass to something awesome like Gyarados who would be able to muscle through a lot of Blaziken's hard stop counters.

 

[Oracle]

Everyone on smogon seems to think shandaraa is broken with its dreamworld ability, but I don't want it to be uber because it's a really cool pokemon.

At first, I was excited at the high probability of having a mostly offensive metagame with stall being much less viable from an unblockable rapid spin (aiming mark item lets you hit pokemon with moves they're immune to), but then I realized that gamefreak might not bring back all of the items from last generation, such as the choice items and life orb D:

Desukan is going to be awesome. Rupushin looks like it could be a monster sub puncher. 140 base attack +focus punch+iron fist=gg. Doryuzzu looks like it may become unstoppable, with decent bulk, good typing, amazing attack, and an ability that doubles its speed in sandstorm. Priority will literally be the only way to stop it once it gets an SD.

With magic guard and great psychic/flying typing, shinpora looks like it could be really good, like a faster,stronger clefable. Shubarugo seems to be amazing, we'll wait and see. Agirudaa may be mad underrated with 145 base speed and 100 spa, despite it's frailty. Urugamosu will become really good if sr becomes less popular

 

[MetallicMario]

At first, I was excited at the high probability of having a mostly offensive metagame with stall being much less viable from an unblockable rapid spin (aiming mark item lets you hit pokemon with moves they're immune to),

I wonder if this Gen, Stealth Rock usage finally dies out. Maybe.


Nah.

 

[Wave⁂]

gamefreak might not bring back all of the items from last generation, such as the choice items and life orb D:

Ohshi-

Hope they keep / remake the Scarf.

 

[TFS]

Stealth Rock isn't a TM from what I heard meaning like 4 fully evolved pokemon get it.

 

[Wave⁂]

Stealth Rock isn't a TM from what I heard meaning like 4 fully evolved pokemon get it.

Yep, this. Spikes will probably more commonly-used.

 

[JOE!]

so, assuming Encourage = auto life orb....

Feraligatr goes from having 105 Attk to 136.5 Attk, putting him 11.5 higher than Gyara...

with Life orb that goes to 177.5.....

so, Gator is OU now?

 

[TFS]

How do we know Life Orb exists in B/W?

 

[JOE!]

just saying

Encourage alone may seal the deal as he gets hi to higher attack, and he lacks the 4x elec weakness which Gyara will be hurting from, seeing all the new pokes with elec moves...

 

[TFS]

I still think Intimidate is a better ability.

 

[JOE!]

yeah, but thats only good like...1/3 of the time

you need to 1: switch him in for it to go off

and then, it;s only good when it hits a physical set (granted its more common than spec), there are times when it;s against a mixed or special atacker who can just get him anyways.

Encourage is allways working and permanently makes Gator better, especially with Dragon Dance

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Rain teams just got a hell of a lot better.

Plus Politoed getting Drizzle. Swimming Goggles boosting Speed and Accuracy for waters .-. Poliwrath getting swift swim. Hypnosis having 82 or 90 accuracy (I hear they dropped Hypnosis' accuracy back to 55) with goggles, plus swift swim and +1 speed from goggles, bellydrum next turn, Waterfall/Return sweep. If only his attack was a bit better

 

[Cease Tick]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2997058&postcount=329
Egg moves for every pokemon.

The grass/ steel type gets spikes, rocks, and leech seed, the bug / steel knight gets megahorn, and the ghost coffin gets nasty plot.

 

[PowerBomb]

Gatr might get Encourage, but Gyarados and Salamence both get Overconfidence and they also reach higher speeds with Dragon Dance, as well as having much higher attack.

 

[JOE!]

Gyara is 3 pts faster, and with Ecnourage, 11pts weaker than gator....DDance would make gator even better

 

[PowerBomb]

Ohshoot, I forgot about the Swimming Goggles...

Might make Feraligatr even more better.

Zekrom has a small movepool, along with his ability being not too great.

EDIT: Growlithe gets Close Combat... oh yes.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

lol Cune/Vaporeon get Boiling Water.

Edit: LOL nvm just about every water that isn't part ice gets it. Wow.

 

[Circa]

Technician Breloom - Will Mach Punch be more used than Focus Punch? Probably not on Subtitute + Spore sets but a unique spread with Mach Punch could completely be viable.

Go look at an old team in the RMT Archive called Adios Mis Estudiantes or something of the sort. It's in the OU section, and the team is from...early '08 iirc? He uses a Bulk Up Breloom set that Riddle and I used on a recent team, and it ended up being total boss. And I'm pretty sure a Technician boost, tbqh, would just make it even deadlier than it already is.

So yeah. Totally usable. SD set benefits a lot as well, obv. It's more like an option you can use in the event that you want to utilize some boosting move.

EDIT: Hitmonlee gets Unburden. I'm already smelling a SubLiechi set.

EDIT2: AHAHAHAHA SEAKING GETS LIGHTNINGROD. FAIL HARDER SEAKING. **** YEAH.

 

[Wave⁂]

EDIT2: AHAHAHAHA SEAKING GETS LIGHTNINGROD. FAIL HARDER SEAKING. **** YEAH.

I already mentioned this before. Mixed Seaking is now pretty cool, and it now only has one weakness.

 

[Pete278]

I just wanted to say that Solar Power Zard doesn't even need any of Charizard's egg moves, and is also an absolute wrecking ball on Sunny Day teams. It may have a terrible lifespan, but I can't see much that'd really wall it. Specs Zard 2HKOs Blissey with max. hp, max. sp.def and a +sp.def nature, which you never even see anymore, so, while I haven't ran the calcs yet, you could probably get away with a Scarf Zard and still demolish things. Could this be the year Zard finally gets what he deserves? I mean, Sun is still inferior to Rain in most respects, but Rain doesn't really have anything on the scale of Solar Power Zard, so, I'm not sure.

 

[Tomo Takino]

The item that allows for an unblockable rapid spin can only be used once.
So, does stall lose their entry hazards? No. Stall relies on bulky members throughout the party to set up entry hazards.
Do offensive teams lose a tool? Yes, suicided leads were the preferred setup of entry hazards and now these can easily be rapid spin'd away.

So in the end, this only serves to invalidate certain Pokemon as a lead.

An interesting new item:
Baloon: grants user levitate, but loses it once hit. This could make for some funny leads.

Hail may be boosted. It may increases the defense of ice users similar to Sandstorm does for sp. defense. No confirmation yet though.

If this is true, then both Sandstorm AND Hail are on par with Rain Dance.

 

[Wrath`]

Wait, were did it say that choice items might not return?

I notice a lot of one use items also, I bet that they will die out very early in the metagame.

 

[PowerBomb]

Boiling Water is a TM. I see some nice status support for bulky waters, even moreso now.

 

[Tomo Takino]

The fire starter gets it, which is incredible, giving it great coverage.

 

[Wave⁂]

Boiling Water isn't reliable enough to be a status move. I don't see it stopping Dragon-types, for one.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Effect: This ability heals 1/3rd of this pokemons HP when switching out.

Pokemon with Regeneration:
Slowbro (Dream World)
Slowking (Dream World)
Corsola (Dream World)
Ho-oh (Dream World)
Tangrowth (Dream World)
Tabunne
Rankurusu (Dream World)
Morobareru (Dream World)
Mamanbou (Dream World)
Kojondo

What an outstanding ability.

 

[Gates]

What does Boiling Water do?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I already mentioned this before. Mixed Seaking is now pretty cool, and it now only has one weakness.

What are you talking about.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Boiling Water is a water attack that has a 30 percent chance to burn. You'll likely see it on Bulky Waters who could use a boost to their physical defense.

What are you talking about.

The ability has been changed. Now it grants immunity and your special attack is raised once hit.

 

[Luxor]

Weather and TR teams are gonna be so much better this generation. I'd go as far as to say that having a weather-changer and a corresponding weather abuser will become a must on every team; every weather is so buffed now. Hail boosting Ice attack and SpD by 1.5, chlorophyll/swift swim for sandstorm in Sand Throw (what a stupid name), Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetales... there's going to be auto-weathers running around rampant. Honestly, with all sorts of crazy weather abuse and generally ridiculous power and setups, Gen 5 will be less about countering your opponent's "X" and more about forwarding some ridiculous strategy that would be totally OP Gen 4. This should be fun.

 

[Chill]

Gen 4 was already less about countering "X", each gen is just going to make that more and more apparent.

I was a little annoyed at all of the boost that sandstorm seemed to be getting but the water type seems pretty **** now. Everyone is going crazy over swimming googgles and for good reason. I'd like to see them on something like Kingdra. swift swim+speed boost from goggles+increased accuracy+hydro pump+rain+stab= :D

Suicune gets water absorb too now.

 

[Luxor]

I totally agree with that. RD is gonna be **** this gen.