Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Ryu Shimazu]

I skipped a lot of the ones that I thought were pointless or stupid. Guts Flareon in particular is dumb since he's forced to use a Toxic Orb to activate it.

It was never good in the first place.

Tyranitar's Dream World ability makes the opponent not use their berries. It's really stupid. If your team is really adverse to Sandstorm I could see it being used, but otherwise it's just crap.

Well Darn. I guess it'd be wise to keep him as the Sandstormer in the Sandstorm team D:. Hopes he doesn't get nerfed down to UU/NU, though with his stats+Sandstream I can't see it.

On another note, Sandstorm teams are going to be so powerful now<3


Edit2: Do you think Jaroda (sp..snake starter) with Perversity can Spam Leaf Storm for +40% Spatt.

Edit: NONE of these new Pokes have Sandstream. Guess Ttar will be a must for SS teams. (Or hippowdon)

 

[Wrath`]

I feel like with all the weather abuse that is predicted. A team that has a sweeper for each type of weather may have merit. Let your opponent do the work of weather manipulation for you.

 

[UltiMario]

...Then another team WITHOUT weather pops up and your team is down right terrible.

You can't have a team that ENTIRELY relies on a Weather, or one that relies on weather NOT showing up (ex Moonlight Cressy). You need some balance. Maybe a team reliant on weather, but has like the Mole guy thrown in there or something to combat Sandstorm teams.

Or maybe even have Weather of your own, but not necessarily a weather team. For example, if your team has a Fire weakness, you might want to slap Politoad in there for support.

 

[Wrath`]

So as I browse Smogon I see elemental gems.

Guess it provides a one time boost to the attack of the element it is.

Explosion Plus lead Metagross? All depends on how much of a boost it provides, hopefully a good boost as it is a one time use.

 

[PowerBomb]

Urogamosu seems very interesting. I guess Swarm is good enough. Anyway, Fire/Bug get some coverage, but with Sun it can abuse Solar Beam. HP Grass should be useful as well.

Anyhoo, it learns these two moves: Butterfly Dance and Fire Dance. The former increases your Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defense, while the latter increases your Special Attack. I'm assuming Fire Dance gives you a +2 boost in Special Attack since it would be kinda stupid to have it just add +1 since it has Butterfly Dance.

Anyway, Butterfly Dance/Fire Dance, coupled with a decent base Speed, Special Defense, and amazing Special Attack give it a chance to be a very threatening sweeper. Stealth Rock is a thorn in its side, though. If Aiming Mark does what it's said to do, then Stealth Rock might decrease in usage, making this thing even better.

It's pre-evolution could be useful in Little Cup as well. I don't have much knowledge of Little Cup, but its pre-evolved form has a Base 85 attack, Base 60 Speed, and 55/55/55 defenses. Nitro Charge, U-turn, and Wild Bolt could also help it be a good enough physical attacker.

Just some theorymonning.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'd be pretty cool if the metagame became similar to the '10 VGC metagame, with many versatile weather abusers and changers.

 

[MetallicMario]

Rain looks really broken this Gen. Then again, GF has always loved Water Types. At least sun teams become usable with Ninetales.

 

[JOE!]

why is nobody mentioning how Gatr is now stronger than Gyara? Especially with the advent of super Rain teams >_>

 

[Wave⁂]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/56447728/623875450

"So, I had the following quick test battle:

Tsutaaja vs. Wild Minezumi

Tsutaaja used Calm Mind. Sp. Attack and SP. Defence fall.
Minezumi used Tackle
Tsutaaja used Leaf Storm. Sp. Attack rose.


Currently trying to get paralysed to see if speed still gets cut.
Let me know if there's other situations you can think of testing."


MY FACE WHEN SMUGLORD IS ****ING UBER
I HAVE NO FACE

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Oh my. Was the Sp. Atk raise +2 or +1?

 

[PowerBomb]

why is nobody mentioning how Gatr is now stronger than Gyara? Especially with the advent of super Rain teams >_>

Yeah, but it doesn't help very much since Gatr can't use Dragon Dance.

EDIT: Aqua Jet also doesn't get boosted by Encourage. It only boosts attacks that have a chance of causing a secondary effect to the opponent (such as Flinch for Waterfall). Gatr can benefit using Waterfall and Ice Punch, though. It also makes it so that a Mixed Set is totally viable due to the Encourage boost.

 

[Tomo Takino]

I took your avatar as your mfw. Does this ability work on the switchin? If so, whooooooo, ****in beast man.

Also, this is the sleeper of this gen, waiting to bust out and kick some ***. She's major underrated

Doredia will be busting *** with Butterfly dance and her support/status moves.
110 SpAtk / 75 SpDef / 90 Spd
She's the only user who doesn't have horrendous typing like Bug/Fire Bug/Flying Bug/Posion.

 

[PowerBomb]

Spoiler

oh god the 34

Isn't her movepool rather shallow? I mean, she can sleep her counters... but yeah.

She absolutely needs Hidden Power though, right?

Harvest Tropius (IF DW abilities are breedable) can abuse a physical Natural Gift rather nicely. Dragon Dance + Physical Natural Gift for coverage. Granted, it'll only be useful in the lower tiers, but it's a boost, nonetheless.

 

[Wave⁂]

Bug / Poison isn't THAT bad. Pure Grass isn't fantastic. Chlorophyll, Own Tempo, and Leaf Guard aren't really worth writing home about.

 

[Pete278]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/56447728/623875450

"So, I had the following quick test battle:

Tsutaaja vs. Wild Minezumi

Tsutaaja used Calm Mind. Sp. Attack and SP. Defence fall.
Minezumi used Tackle
Tsutaaja used Leaf Storm. Sp. Attack rose.


Currently trying to get paralysed to see if speed still gets cut.
Let me know if there's other situations you can think of testing."


MY FACE WHEN SMUGLORD IS ****ING UBER
I HAVE NO FACE

HOLY **** WORDS DO NOT DESCRIBE THE EMOTION I AM FEELING RIGHT NOW. IT'S SO SMUG BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EVEN CARE WHAT YOU DO TO IT.

But, seriously, wow. That's going to be amazing if Smuglord doesn't rely on egg moves. Keep in mind, the other two pokemon with this ability are Shuckle and Spinda, they're not going to be competing for Smuglord's place.

EDIT: Though, having just checked, his type coverage is a tad non-existant...

 

[Wave⁂]

Leaf Storm
HP Fire / Ice
Hyper Beam
Leech Seed

 

[Tomo Takino]

Leaf Storm
HP Fire / Ice
Hyper Beam
Leech Seed

Heatran GG.

 

[PowerBomb]

Smuglord's Special coverage is horrible. Hidden Power and Grass-type moves... >_> Still, double special attack per Leaf Storm is rather powerful. He has nice speed too.

Dragon Tail might help woosh people away...

Also, you guys realize the potential of this ability in double battles, right? Lower the stats of the Pokemon with Perversity and it gets boosted...

EDIT: I'm thinking of a set with Sub, Leaf Storm, HP Ground, and _____. Maybe Dragon Tail to shuffle some of the more annoying Pokemon out. If Heatran doesn't have a Scarf, it's gonna die (assumptions).

 

[JOE!]

Yeah, but it doesn't help very much since Gatr can't use Dragon Dance.

EDIT: Aqua Jet also doesn't get boosted by Encourage. It only boosts attacks that have a chance of causing a secondary effect to the opponent (such as Flinch for Waterfall). Gatr can benefit using Waterfall and Ice Punch, though. It also makes it so that a Mixed Set is totally viable due to the Encourage boost.

you cant get Egg Moves?

 

[PowerBomb]

you cant get Egg Moves?

It's unconfirmed if whether Dream World abilities pass on through breeding. I've heard they are, but no one knows for sure.

Unless we get the Dream World abilities with a manipulative plethora of moves... that would be interesting.

 

[Wave⁂]

"Magic Coat will now work on: Whirlwind, Roar, Disable, Spite, Spikes, Foresight, Encore, Torment, Taunt, Odor Sleuth, Miracle Eye, Embargo, Heal Block, Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Stealth Rock."

 

[UltiMario]

Like you guys are so slow.

Then again, I'm talking with one of the guys actually doing the data extracting from the game to get my info, but still.

BTW, there is a "Hadouken flag" for some moves :3

It's just a categorization for moves, probably just to keep things organized when designing the game, nothing more lol.

 

[PowerBomb]

"Magic Coat will now work on: Whirlwind, Roar, Disable, Spite, Spikes, Foresight, Encore, Torment, Taunt, Odor Sleuth, Miracle Eye, Embargo, Heal Block, Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Stealth Rock."

MAGIC COAT PORYGON2 IS BACK, BABY
Well, almost. Still, it gets a major boost.

Like you guys are so slow.

Then again, I'm talking with one of the guys actually doing the data extracting from the game to get my info, but still.

BTW, there is a "Hadouken flag" for some moves :3

It's just a categorization for moves, probably just to keep things organized when designing the game, nothing more lol.

Answer me this: Are Dream World abilities passable via breeding?

 

[Tomo Takino]

"Magic Coat will now work on: Whirlwind, Roar, Disable, Spite, Spikes, Foresight, Encore, Torment, Taunt, Odor Sleuth, Miracle Eye, Embargo, Heal Block, Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Stealth Rock."

Wait, so if you use Magic Coat, it reflects Stealth Rock to the opponents side of the field if used afterwords?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Since Magic Coat has priority, if the opposing Pokemon uses Stealth Rock they will have setup Stealth Rocks on their own side.

 

[mood4food77]

alakazam with magic guard is gonna **** ****

i mean come on

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Magic Guard / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Calm Mind
Miracle Eye
Psychic
Focus Blast

You hit everything hard, Miracle Eye to get the ttar switch-ins, calm mind to boost your attack to absurd levels, and everything else is toast

 

[Smugleaf]

Don't know if anyone said it yet, but Ditto4OU. Eccentric let's it transform as soon as it enters the battle, plus it copies stat boosts; slap a scarf on it and you have the best revenge killer that has every existed.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Azelf/Jirachi/Starmie gets this move people.
In lower tiers, you'll have Espeon using its new Auto Magic Coat ability to jump in during the start and **** up leads.

Did I mention how insane Starmie is now, especially as an anti-lead?

Buffs it got as an antilead:
Swimming Goggles (buffed speed and accuracy, can be tricked to put the opponent who isn't water to sleep, also stops other Trick pokemon)
Aiming Mark (can be tricked onto ghost for a sure fire rapid spin)
Boiling Water (spreads status)
Magic Coat (perfect anti-Stealth Rock move)
Psychic Shock (stops pokemon who would otherwise wall it)
Electric-U-Turn (using its great special attack, it provides a way to escape unwanted threats)
Complete Burn to **** over Ninjask with berries.

all of these also buff it as a pokemon, AND it also gets buffed thanks to Politoad. Starmie looking incredibly solid next gen. It has to deal with a few more powerful dark types, but I think it will handle this well considering everything.

 

[mood4food77]

that's nuts and totally awesome

ditto is not completely useless outside of sex

i don't think starmie gets volt change

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wait. What does the new Miracle Eye do?

 

[Tomo Takino]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79304

"I got ahold of an ActionReplay code generator and tested this in game.
The behaviour for this move is exactly like the move Magic Coat, except it is in the form of a passive ability."

Notice this was from Smogon's CAP. . . . and Magic Coat's change was once a glitch on Shoddy.
GAMEFREAK PLAYS SHODDY.

 

[mood4food77]

miracle eye removes the dark type psychic immunity

but when i look at it, it's nto going to be doing much

 

[PowerBomb]

Yeah, Focus Blast will still hit Tyranitar harder.

Smuglord @ Life Orb
Perversity / Timid
252 Sp. Att / 228 Speed / 24 HP
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power Ground/Rock
-Substitute
-Leech Seed/Dragon Tail

Just something random I came up with. I think the EVs outspeed Max Speed Gengar. God dang his movepool sucks. Hidden Power Ground deals with Heatran, but Rock deals with the fliers that wall him so badly. At least Dragon Tail shoves stuff around.

 

[E123-omega]

Wait. What does the new Miracle Eye do?

I don't think it changed.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'd go with HP Rock and Hyper Beam in the last slot.

+2 Hyper Beam is no joke.

 

[PowerBomb]

From 500 special attack, maybe. If only it learned Sludge Bomb we might have had a good filler move. Maybe the third version will bring some move tutors that give him additional moves.

 

[Kofu]

Just read on Smogon that Breakable Armor does indeed lower Defense, not Attack, in exchange for Speed.

Don't remember who all gets it but Kabutops now has a use outside Rain.

<3 Kabutops.

 

[PowerBomb]

Just read on Smogon that Breakable Armor does indeed lower Defense, not Attack, in exchange for Speed.

Don't remember who all gets it but Kabutops now has a use outside Rain.

<3 Kabutops.

Oh wow.

Lol Skarmory... he doesn't need this DW ability.

 

[Kofu]

Kabutops is definitely its best receiver, too.

A Jolly Kabutops with Max Speed and Attack has 658 Attack after a Swords Dance and 426 Speed, which outspeeds all non-boosted Pokémon barring Ninjask and Agirudaa (by 1 POINT ), and, of course, the Deoxys formes. With its very nice dual STAB, only resisted by a handful of Pokémon, it's guaranteed to dent some things. You could use Claw Sharpen over Swords Dance to make sure Stone Edge hits, but you lose power.

Rain is still the safer route, as it allows for a faster and stronger Pokemon without the need for damage and Defense loss; it also gets a more powerful Waterfall. Breakable Armor does have the advantage of preventing weather interlopers from interfering with its sweep, though.

 

[Gates]

Just read on Smogon that Breakable Armor does indeed lower Defense, not Attack, in exchange for Speed.

Oh.

Well then **** that noise.