Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[PowerBomb]

Swimming goggles gives a 20% boost to accuracy and speed. It's nearly a Compoundeyes boost, which is rather nice. I don't think it'll help Feraligatr much though. Most of his moves are 100% accuracy anyway. Still, hitting foes in Sand Veil is nice.

Adamant max Speed Feraligatr gets 306 Speed. That lets it tie with all +Speed base 90 Pokemon without even using Jolly!

With Jolly, it gets 336 Speed, allowing it to outspeed all +Speed natured Pokemon at 100 base speed, and Garchomp. Sadly, he misses out on Base 105 speed Pokemon (which isn't much). At the very least, he can outspeed Shandera (or whatever its name is).

That's pretty cool. But, the accuracy boost is largely useless due to Encourage giving Gatr more power with Ice Punch, Waterfall, maybe Crunch. Gyarados would like this though, since it can use Swimming Goggles, Overconfidence, and Bounce/Aqua Tail (a maybe for the former) to deal more damage.

Well, Gyarados and Feraligatr now get different niches..

 

[Wave⁂]

Kabutops can easily be revenge killed by ExtremeSpeed after a Defense drop.

20% boost isn't too bad, doesn't make the item ridiculous. A speed-boosting item that isn't Choice is welcome.

 

[PowerBomb]

Extremespeed is +2 priority now. Lucario can't be revenged by Mach Punch Infernape while Arcanine can't be revenged by Aqua Jet Azumarill without taking some damage.

Err, Arcanine got a major boost by getting Close Combat... anyone think it will be legal with Morning Sun?

And does anyone know what his DW ability is?

 

[Wave⁂]

Heart of Justice.

ExtremeSpeed Dragonite probably benefits the most from the priority overhaul.

 

[PowerBomb]

Lucario and Arcanine both got Heart of Justice? Well, Arcanine has a choice of being immune to Fire-type attacks or Dark-type attacks. Both give him a boost to his power...

At least Dragonite has something to differentiate itself from the more powerful dragons...

 

[Kofu]

Kabutops can easily be revenge killed by ExtremeSpeed after a Defense drop.

Assuming a 31 IV in Defense, Max Attack Choice Band Dragonite only does a max of 124 damage with Extremespeed. Depending on how much damage Kabutops has previously taken, that's definitely survivable. Other priority Attacks--the Fighting ones mainly--are considerably more troublesome.

 

[PowerBomb]

Assuming a 31 IV in Defense, Max Attack Choice Band Dragonite only does a max of 124 damage with Extremespeed. Depending on how much damage Kabutops has previously taken, that's definitely survivable. Other priority Attacks--the Fighting ones mainly--are considerably more troublesome.

Scizor can revenge it. So can Infernape, Lucario, and Encourage Feraligatr.

Arcanine does about 29% to it with Extremespeed, so yeah.

 

[Kofu]

Yeah, Extremespeed isn't too much of a threat because it's resisted. The other priority moves are more dangerous.

I'm aware that Kabutops isn't all that great of a Pokémon; I'm just glad it has a use outside of Rain now.

 

[PowerBomb]

Yeah, Extremespeed isn't too much of a threat because it's resisted. The other priority moves are more dangerous.

I'm aware that Kabutops isn't all that great of a Pokémon; I'm just glad it has a use outside of Rain now.

A lot of Pokemon have a use now...

Except Deliberd. Spinda has its uses; double and triple battles have enormous potential for it since it gets Perversity. Deliberd...

 

[JOE!]

so, any word on the actual boost encourage gives?

 

[Wave⁂]

Spinda has its uses; double and triple battles have enormous potential for it since it gets Perversity.

Why would you use Spinda instead of Shuckle or Smuglord?

 

[Tomo Takino]

Choice Scarf Tyranitar is going to be megapopular this gen. That Fire/Ghost will be weak in its knees with that thing roaming around, and with Latias coming back down, Choice Band Scizor sucking so much, and Starmie being so **** powerful, it'll wreck some havock.

Meloia looks amazing, and I'm glad, because she's my favorite 5th gen pokemon. Here's to hoping she stays in whatever the hell becomes OU this gen, which considering the number of outstanding pokemon this gen, she very well may.

What's amazing about her is her ability to change form in battle.

Normal Forme- Normal/Psychic
HP: 100
Atk: 77
Def: 77
SpA: 128
SpD: 128
Spe: 90

Step Forme Normal/Fighting
HP: 100
Atk: 128
Def: 90
SpA: 77
SpD: 77
Spe: 128

Her signature move Ancient Song has a 10 percent chance of sleep (she has serene grace, so its a 20 percent) and will change her form, allowing her to address her counters as she sees them. After STAB its at 97 base power, though it is a Normal type move, meaning that the Ghost/Fire will give her some trouble. This does however mean she's the only psychic who doesn't fear dark types. Walling her will be equally difficult because you predicting her set will be incredibly difficult.

She also has the options to run either a physical/special/specially defensive/supportive set, though is lacking some key options for a support set like Wish or Baton Pass. I can also see her being a Role Play abuser, losing her normal typing for something more abusable.

Notable moves:
Close Combat
Hyper Voice
Perish Song
Claw Sharpen
Toxic
Light Screen
Safeguard
Telekinesis
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Shadow Ball
Energy Ball
Shadow Claw
Payback
Thunder Wave
Stone Edge
U-Turn
Substitute
Trick Room

You could draw a lot of sets from these moves. Here's one I was thinking of.

Claw Sharpen
Thunder
Ancient Song
Close Combat

An accurate thunder with a 1/5 chance of causing paralysis.

I'm convinced this pokemon won't be sent tu Ubers because there its ability is not abusable, and it must always start the battle in its Normal Form which has a lot to be desired from. It has no flinchhax, and not a huge amount of moves to work off its STAB from besides Close Combat, and it must transform before it can truly use this move. The Shadowtag Fire/Ghost pokemon is def gonna give her some trouble.

 

[Kofu]

That's a 60% chance of Paralysis; Thunder's base chance is 30%

 

[Tomo Takino]

Oh whoops, I was reading Gen 1s Thunder xD Thanks.

Blaziken
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Fire Blast
-Hi Jump Kick
-Claw Sharpen
-Shadow Claw

I think this is the best bet for Blaziken.
Shadow Claw deals with ghost types.
Fire Blast deals with physical walls who resist Hi Jump Kick and don't mind Shadow Claw
Claw Sharpen fixes Hi Jump Kick's and Fire Blast'saccuracy, increases your attack.

 

[mood4food77]

venom shock

end of breloom?

 

[Kofu]

With Toxic Spikes it seems like it could be a decent move.

Poison's still an awful attacking type that's' really only good with considerable back-up power and STAB.

 

[Wave⁂]

Move: Shell Break
Lowers user's defense and special defense, sharply raises user's Attack, SpAtk, and Speed

Distribution:
Cloyster
Omastar
Magcargo
Torkoal
Clamperl - Huntail/Gorebyss
Iwaparesu
Abagoora

Get one of these in, and you've pretty much won the game. Omastar's +2 Rain-boosted Hydro Pump 2HKOs WishBliss. Oh, and Omastar's Speed? 584.

 

[UltiMario]

Don't forget Swimming Goggles.

Reliable Hydro Pump + EVEN MORE SPEED

 

[Wave⁂]

Omastar @ Swimming Goggles
Modest / Swift Swim
252 SpAtk / Whatever
Shell Break
Hydro Pump
Blizzard
Ancientpower / HP Grass

Water Absorbant Pokémon are a problem, though.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Some of these moves are ridiculous.

Arcanine getting Close Combat just means Rhyperior can no longer switch-in as safely as he would like.

 

[PowerBomb]

so, any word on the actual boost encourage gives?

It's 1.5x to moves that have a chance of doing something to the opponent. It's basically additional STAB.

Why would you use Spinda instead of Shuckle or Smuglord?

Because Spinda can learn more moves than Smuglord. All you have to do is spam Scary Face/Leer/whatever on Shuckle/Spinda.

 

[Tomo Takino]

venom shock

end of breloom?

No way. Breloom is generally 1 of three places.

1. Waiting to spore you
2. sitting behind a substitute
3. Ready to Focus Punch you.

The chance of you coming in on a Breloom without a sub who is running a Toxic Orb set is incredibly unlikely. Even more, the main pokemon who gets to abuse it is Gengar, and Gengar is already solid against Breloom during sleep clause.

Then there's the fact that Breloom now actually has an ability worth using besides Toxic Heal: Technician. Breloom with technician Mach Punch is going to be enough to keep Breloom around, without toxic orb at its side, assuming the item does not return.

Also, I'm really worried about heavy Rain this gen. If there were no changes, this wouldn't be a problem, but with Simming Goggles, buffs to Cloyster and Starmie and many, many pokemon getting new rain abilites in Dream World, and to top it all off, a swimming poller bear.

Its not spectacular by any means, however, he has something other pure ice types do not, Swift Swim. This means that a rain team with him and Kingdra will have two potent deadly revenge killers to Dragon types. This pokemon does come with other problems though, like its frailty and bad defensive typing to go with it, weak to priority attacks.

I certinaly do hope that a standard, well rounded team can beat out a Rain Dance team. I imagine Tyranitar, Hippowdown, and Abomosnow will all rise is usage to help stop these pokemon. Abomosnow in particular could do wonders if Rain becomes too popular.

 

[Wave⁂]

Ninetales might not be able to switch into Rain abusers, but it's a nice check, thanks to its decent Speed and Solarbeam.

 

[Luxor]

What can Politoed do in OU besides set up rain anyway? If Abomasnow switched into it, then A. the RD team switched to an abuser and is now in a neutral situation or at a disadvantage or B. Politoed stays in and hits Abomasnow on the switch with...

What can Politoed do in OU? Ninetales/Ttar/Hippo can't switch into it, I guess, but Obama can just fine.

Water types are too broken this gen. Stupid swimming goggles lol.

 

[Wave⁂]

Politoed has Perish Song, Hypnosis, and other crap everyone has.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Slippy Can pseudo haze with Slippy set. There isn't much he can do.

Ninetails is def the better pokemon of the two, though in large part that's left to one idea: can breeding give a pokemon dream world abilities? We don't know yet, and there's no reason to think either way. Losing Hypnosis would be quite the blow to Ninetails.

 

[Wave⁂]

...why is Hypnosis good? Nasty Plot or Substitute / Fire Blast / Solarbeam / HP something.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Hypnosis would be alright on something like Ninetales, I know Infernape/Azelf/other frail NP users would kill to have a sleep move to let it bypass its counters with their NP sets.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Not liking Solarbeam there. Your main counters are going to be Heatran/Weather inducers. Solarbeam is just asking to get screwed over imo. I don't know, I don't like the looks of it, and I don't like Sub on pokemon with meh stats and a stealth rock weakness.

 

[Luxor]

Without Solarbeam any random bulky water can come in and ****. Solarbeam means Pert and Co. don't have a free switch-in. Honestly though, I don't like Toad or Tales in OU- they weren't good before, and especially by comparison with new threats they're even more mediocre. They're like a suicide lead that does its damage and dies, but unlike a suicide lead they actually need to LIVE for a while to come fix the weather later. Obama can do decently, Ttar/Hippo are established as good. I think the actual moves RD/SD/etc. are gonna rise in usage, since relying on Toad or Tales all the time is meh. You need at least one contingency plan.

I could see giving random pokes Twave as a viable option to nail RD sweepers on the switch-in. It's funny how many requirements for a team this gen are automatically, 100% mandatory:

1. Priority user to defeat SwimGoggs/Sleep Talk/WW Crobat/Aerodactyl
2. Weather changer(s)
3. Dragon counter

Ok, so now that I list it it's not that many, but... still!

Also: random pondering- Sash+Magic Guard a la Cleffa/fairy/fable could be useful for crippling a powerful rain sweeper OR even better, changing the weather to sun! With so many powerful threats running rampant, an Endeavor/Sunny Day/Twave/Encore set or some derivative of it could be the ultimate utility counter. I'm gonna try it.

 

[Pete278]

I think the fact Politoed is so mediocre is meant to balance out the fact that Rain is better than Sun. I'm not sure if Ninetails can make OU, probably end up BL, but Politoed, purely on the basis of 'rain is amazing', will probably end up OU.

I think that, including the strengths of the weather, Ninetails is better than Abomasnow, though, since he's not really too flash and hail is even worse than sun.

 

[Wave⁂]

Ninetales's BST is 505, while Politoed's is 500. If you're looking for a sweeper, pick Ninetales a thousand times over. If you're looking for a bulky Pokémon capable of switching in repeatedly, Politoed is your bro. Politoed's Special Attack is actually higher than Ninetales's, by the way. It's just his speed (and to some degree his movepool) that holds him back.

 

[JOE!]

are there any other type-items like the goggles?

 

[Wave⁂]

So apparently Mamoswine actually gets a physical Ice-type move this generation, with 85 base power. With Level Ground lowering his opponent's speed and Dragons having an orgy in OU, I think I'm going to be using a lot of Mamoswine.

 

[Wrath`]

I hope Ugagmothu(My avatar, I spelled the name horribly wrong.) Is good in whatever is OU/UU. If rocks is weak as rumored then it will be viable, come in on something that hates Fire, butterfly dance and proceed to sweep until aforementioned walls come in. I will build my team around this awesome looking pokemon.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Swimming Goggles is ridiculous. Jussayin'.

Hihidaruma (Fire-type monkey) looks pretty great. Slap a Choice Scarf on it and spam Fire Punch or Flare Blitz or something. I dunno. He seems like he'd be decent, but with all this Rain Dance precedence I'm not so sure anymore.

Edit - Butterfly Dance?

 

[Wrath`]

Yes, Butterfly Dance, +1 in SpA/SpD and Spe in one turn. Hella good stat boosting move.

 

[Tomo Takino]

I've got to say, I was pretty bummed out by this guys abilitys. Hustle/Swarm/Traunt. His stats weren't spectacular either, however, when you look at his movepool, I can see that Gamefreak wasn't actually trolling us.

Make Friends: Both the opponent and the user now have the same ability.
Claw Sharpen: Raises the users attack and accuracy.
Baton Pass

So, you run Hustle, abusing its okay bulk and great typing run Claw Sharpen.
Or, you run Traunt/Make Friends and Pseudo Haze your opponent.
He baton passes Iron Defense, Claw Sharpen, and Rock Polish

His speed is important, at 109 he outspeeds many of his threats such as infernape. After Sharpen/Claw Sharpen/Life Orb, he has a base attack stat of 251.

His attacking movepool is odd, its efficent, but not superb. For hitting steels he has Thunderfang, thus keeping Skarmory from walling it out, but the inevitable Heatran is still blocking its way, I'd need to do some calcs to see what a thunder fang could do to Heatran.

 

[Wave⁂]

My source (Smogon) says "Make Friends" is called "Assemble Crew". >_>

 

[TFS]

Make Friends is a dumb name, but so is Assemble Crew.

It seems like a LOT of the ability names are stupid.