Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Gates]

What EV spread for a level 2?

 

[PowerBomb]

It won't matter due to the level. Besides, it isn't like you're gonna be doing direct damage.

 

[Gates]

So overall the set is:

Probopass @ Leftovers
Sturdy
Level 2
IVs: 0 HP, 0 Spe
Relaxed 236 Atk/116 Def/76 SpA/76 SpD
- Pain Split
- Protect
- Sandstorm
- Explosion

Speed is minimized to "outspeed" other level 2 Endeavor/Pain Split users in Trick Room. Sandstorm is to keep a favorable weather condition up. Explosion is there as an out if you get Taunted.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

That looks pretty ridiculous on paper.

 

[PowerBomb]

So overall the set is:

Probopass @ Leftovers
Sturdy
Level 2
IVs: 0 HP, 0 Spe
Relaxed 236 Atk/116 Def/76 SpA/76 SpD
- Pain Split
- Protect
- Sandstorm
- Explosion

Speed is minimized to "outspeed" other level 2 Endeavor/Pain Split users in Trick Room. Sandstorm is to keep a favorable weather condition up. Explosion is there as an out if you get Taunted.

Uh, no. He's level 2...

It's more like
Probopass @ Lefties
Sturdy / Level 2
-Pain Split
-Stealth Rock
-Thunder Wave/Toxic
-Protect

Sandstorm should be up by Tyranitar/Hippo. And yes, Taunt is a major thorn. You can always switch. Not like any of the Magnet Pull Pokemon can actually Taunt you.

 

[Gates]

What does him being level 2 have to do with anything I said?

 

[PowerBomb]

Base Attack?

EDIT: Wait, you mean using Explosion as a way to get out of a checkmate situation? Maybe I misread here.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, I just did damage calcs on Explosion and it's terrible. It does like 5 damage max. Not 5%, 5 damage.

 

[Tomo Takino]

I'm still confused and haven't recieved an answer anywhere, /vp/, smogon, smashboards.

Using the grass snake's ability, if you switch into stat changes, are these former stat changes reversed?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I don't quite understand your question, to be honest.

 

[E123-omega]

I'm still confused and haven't recieved an answer anywhere, /vp/, smogon, smashboards.

Using the grass snake's ability, if you switch into stat changes, are these former stat changes reversed?

Smugleaf's dream ability make calm mind lower sp. attack and sp. defense, while being hit by a leer increases defense. Does that answer your question?

 

[Kofu]

I think he's referring to Baton Passing.

I don't know, I'm afraid. And since Dream World Abilities are somewhat out of reach at the moment, it may not be known for a while.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Actually, let me do this.

Overconfident Salemence
Does a dragon dance 1 turn
next turn, kills a pokemon, gains another boost in attack.

So, I send in Smuglord, does this make these stat boost reverse?

Also Kofu, you can get these pokemon via action replay.

 

[PowerBomb]

I think it only affects Smuglord.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Well ****. There goes potential wasted.

 

[Gates]

Oh no, an offensive ability doesn't have a defensive effect. This pokemon is useless now.

 

[Circa]

Oh no, an offensive ability doesn't have a defensive effect. This pokemon is useless now.

The Pokemon probably wouldn't be so useless if it weren't for its Special movepool consisting of a miraculous two viable moves. Well...maybe.

Jaroda @ Leftovers
optimal whatever / Perversity
optimal EVs and whatnot
- Leaf Storm
- HP whatever for optimal coverage against the metagame with Leaf Storm
- Wring Out
- Dragon Tail

Use early-game obv. I wouldn't even consider this spread if it weren't for its stats making it seem as though it can take at least one hit maybe. And the potential lack of entry hazards we MAY see. But it'll still probably be terrible.

Scratch that. It's still terrible, no doubt.

 

[PowerBomb]

Does Dragon Tail force a switch if it hits?

 

[Circa]

Does Dragon Tail force a switch if it hits?

Yeah, but it has -6 priority and only has 90% accuracy. It's not affected by Taunt though, which is a decent-ish trade-off.

The last two slots can just be filled with whatever you want though, really. It gets dual screens, Glare, and Taunt; maybe more. But I can't remember off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look again. But basically, you can make it so it's not useless when it's being walled to death by whatever it's bound to get walled by.

 

[Gates]

+2 Leaf Storm hurts a good portion of the meta. +4 Leaf Storm hurts almost everything really bad. +6 Leaf Storm makes typing an afterthought and 2HKOs literally everything. I mean hell, you can Scarf this thing and it'll be a great boosting sweeper with just one move.

 

[PowerBomb]

+2 Leaf Storm hurts a good portion of the meta. +4 Leaf Storm hurts almost everything really bad. +6 Leaf Storm makes typing an afterthought and 2HKOs literally everything. I mean hell, you can Scarf this thing and it'll be a great boosting sweeper with just one move.

Yeah, but the PP is so BAD. 8 turns to sweep everything... Heatran laughs at you.

 

[Circa]

+2 Leaf Storm hurts a good portion of the meta. +4 Leaf Storm hurts almost everything really bad. +6 Leaf Storm makes typing an afterthought and 2HKOs literally everything. I mean hell, you can Scarf this thing and it'll be a great boosting sweeper with just one move.

What's so lulzy about it is that Miltank is a very, very hard counter to the thing. You seriously can't do **** to the cow. As for whether or not Miltank will actually manage to sit comfortably in the same tier as Jaroda however, is a completely different story.

Mischievous Heart has the potential to be an amazing ability. Someone has probably already said it, but I want to say it again anyway.

EDIT: Also what PowerBomb said. And Mence, who would have a ****ing hayday with all the DMs it now gets to launch willy nilly while gaining Attack boosts thanks to Overconfidence as you frantically try to kill it with your silly little Leaf Storms. Dragonite could be scarier if it only had Overconfidence...but it doesn't. :'( Specs sets are probably your best bet with Jaroda. Utilize that 113 Speed and just unleash all the power you can.

 

[JOE!]

So, seeing as Gyara and Gatr have been semi comparable ever since gen 2....

with the new abilities/etc, how do you think they stack? Both OU but with different Niches?

 

[Pete278]

I can't see them really filling the same niches, DDGatr still probably isn't as good as DDDos, unless it counters some big threats for whatever reason.

 

[Circa]

Yeah, Gyarados will probably still be the go-to Water-type sweeper this gen. With a decent chance of choiced Rotom-A usage falling (Sazando walls it pretty hard for one) and there being little chance of us seeing many other choiced Electric-types popping up this gen (or even choiced Electric-type moves for that matter; Jirachi's TPunch probably being the most likely), Gyarados may just as well be a decent OU threat.

 

[JOE!]

While true, Im just saying that wouldnt choosing between the two be a matter of preferance?

Hell, wouldnt Gatr's souped up ice moves give him more of a role as "Dragon Slayer" with all the dragons running about?

 

[Pete278]

Well, out of the new Pokemon, the Electric/Bug Spider and the Electric/Flying Genie could make pretty good choice users, I think.

 

[PowerBomb]

While true, Im just saying that wouldnt choosing between the two be a matter of preferance?

Hell, wouldnt Gatr's souped up ice moves give him more of a role as "Dragon Slayer" with all the dragons running about?

If we can't get him Ice Punch, then we'd have to wait until the third version for better tutors or use Ice Fang with Encourage, which isn't bad since the Swimming Goggles make them have over 100% accuracy.

Still, if you could, a physical Ice-type attack with over 100 base power would make Gatr very happy.

EDIT: Wouldn't Starmie be a good check? Swimming Goggles + Thunder(bolt) could serve as a decent check to Gyarados that don't want to run DD with that Electric SE reducer berry. Starmie would outspeed with Swimming Goggles even after a Jolly Dragon Dance and KO, right?

 

[Tomo Takino]

While true, Im just saying that wouldnt choosing between the two be a matter of preferance?

Hell, wouldnt Gatr's souped up ice moves give him more of a role as "Dragon Slayer" with all the dragons running about?

With Encourage, Gatr is stronger, but slower and not as bulky as Intimidate Gdose. Its a lot like the relation between Salemence and Dragonite. There are substantial reasons to chose one or the other, though at surface they appear to just be slight variants of one another.

There are a lot of viable choice band/scarf/specs users this gen. Hinidurma, and so many choice scarf users its crazy.

 

[JOE!]

he's slower by 3 points <.<

thats like saying Salamence is obsolete because Garchomp outspeeds him with his 102 speed compared to Mence's 100

 

[UltiMario]

Hey guys.

Last time I checked, Swimming Goggles don't exist.

 

[Wrath`]

Hey guys.

Last time I checked, Swimming Goggles don't exist.

I thought they existed, but only provided an accuracy boost.

Also Aiming mark is trick item, it has to be on your opponent for you to be able to hit it, so SR is SR is SR is.................. is **** my favorite pokemon this gen MOTHRA

 

[Tomo Takino]

he's slower by 3 points <.<

thats like saying Salamence is obsolete because Garchomp outspeeds him with his 102 speed compared to Mence's 100

That's not what I'm saying. Salemence and Dragonite only share similarities with their typing. Otherwise, you have to play them like completely different pokemon. GDose has a far easier time switching in and setting up, while Feralgator can potentially hit harder. There's also substantial differences in their movepool. While Gatr has access to Dragon Claw, Shadow Claw, and Ice Punch, GDose has Stone Edge and Bounce.

I do hope swimming goggles aren't real. They would impact the metagame far too heavily when set alongside Drizzle and the numerous water pokemon out there.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Choice Scarf Hihidaruma, anyone?

 

[ss118]

I actually think the Fire/ Bug pokemon is good enough to be OU, despite the SR weakness.

I think that we should just start "from scratch" for this game. And I literally mean "from scratch."

No bans. Period. Sure some are "obvious," but even if they are and they end up being banned super fast at least we have basis to argue later on for people who want to say that it's not broken. This way we also work away from "traditional" rules and we can develop a proper idea of a metagame: as we remove stuff and go up with the amount of "uberness" taken out, we get more prospects on the types of metagames that could be available to us. Allowing us of SWF to personally create our own "ideal metagame," compared to that of nintendo's or even smogon's ban list.

For one let me say that I ****ing LOVE the new Electric/ Dragon type. My favorite pokemon with 150 base attack and a 130 base power physical electric move to abuse it with. groudon came in? Draco Meteor from 120 base spa says no to that. What's really cool is that, if we start out with literally no bans, it can effectively abuse species clause: it's bulky enough to be potentially EVed or item'd(in the case of resist berries) to avoid any direct OHKO, not to mention the flexibility of potential sets it can pull off(Band, Scarf, Bulky, Mixed, LO, Haban.... seriously wtf).

 

[Tamoo]

would this be a no ban through all gens? That would be pretty exciting actually, imagine the diversity of the teams to begin with, although inevitably some stronger and overpowered strategies will come to light.

 

[Pete278]

I really don't think we should bother with unbanning Arceus.

 

[Wrath`]

I really don't think we should bother with unbanning Arceus.

The minute we leave one unbanned........we will want to leave others as well. There are going to be be surefire bans within the first week for sure, but we should give all 600 whatnot pokemon a chance, even if they only last a few days in the new OU

 

[JOE!]

yeah, actually find out what is banworthy in practice 1st

 

[Gates]

I actually think it would be safe to ban all the pokemon with a BST of above 600 since all of them except Slaking and Regigigas are going to get banned anyway. I mean look at everything that's in that stat tier:

Arceus (btw, I believe Arceus should be allowed in Ubers for Gen 5)
Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Rayquaza
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina (and Giratina-O)
Reshiram
Zekrom
Kyogre
Groudon
Kyuremu (Ice Dragon)

Here is a list of Ubers that would be OU legal under this ruleset and why it's not that bad:

Deoxys variants (Deoxys-S was legal in OU for a long time and normal and attack form have piss poor defense, so it's not unreasonable for them to at least be tested for OU)
Lati@s (I personally think they should be tested with Soul Dew since having a clause that prevents the use of a single item in order for something to be legal is kind of dumb)
Garchomp (How many of you honestly think Garchomp is Uber anyway?)
Manaphy (Draws all her strength from rain teams, so with all sorts of viable weather users now in Gen V she will be much easier to deal with)
Mew (Mew isn't really an offensive threat as much as it is a support threat, so I expect that he'll be no worse than Jirachi)
Darkrai (OK, Darkrai could be a problem, but if it's in the same metagame as Genosect he might be balanced)
Salamence (See Garchomp)
Shaymin-S (I don't think he'll be too bad, especially if the Deoxys forms are also legal)
Wobbuffet (AW **** ***** WOBBUFFET GON **** Y'ALL *****S UP ***** *** ***** CAN'T DO **** BOUT DAT MU****IN SHADOW TAG ***** *** **** ****)
Wynaut (Wynaut, on the other hand, sucks)

On top of that, from Gen 5 we'll also have:

Victini (Who I really don't think is that good)
Sazando (Dark Dragon) (checks the other dragons, especially Lati@s)
Randorosu (Good for sandstorm teams, decent for general sweeping, not much else going for it)
Meloia (Doesn't seem more threatening than Jirachi and its poor typing doesn't help it much either)
Genosect (Checks like everything else listed here)



On an unrelated note, if Swimming Goggles does indeed not exist, I'll be glad I think. I don't want to face down fast Kyogres who use Blizzard and Hydro Pump instead of Ice Beam and Surf.