Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[xxmoosexx]

Well I didn't exactly understand that strategy was either XD.

All I remember was an Aron, and it destroyed a butt-load of stuff with Endeavor.

 

[Moozle]

It's level 2 with the ability sturdy. This means it cant be OHKOed and will come back to full health with leftovers. Since it is level 2 and has like no HP, Endeavor ***** everything. Probopass has painsplit and other support moves which make it even better.

 

[xxmoosexx]

So..anything with priority destroys it. Am i correct?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So..anything with priority destroys it. Am i correct?

No, because then Probopass uses Endeavor and you lose from Sandstorm residual damage alongside any Toxic Spikes damage.

 

[Gates]

No, it also has to resist sandstorm and toxic spikes.

 

[Pluvia]

No leftovers doesn't get it back to full health, Pain Split does and it halves your opponents health everytime. Priority is useless as you can't kill Probo from full health and he starts every turn at full health.

 

[Wave⁂]

Aron @ Shell Bell / Sturdy
Endeavor
Protect
Filler
Filler

Probopass @ Leftovers / Sturdy
Pain Split
Magic Coat
Taunt
Filler

This right?

 

[UltiMario]

Probo needs Protect.
Taunt is worthless :V Toxic will fill that slot.

 

[xxmoosexx]

So what the heck does stop it?

 

[Pluvia]

Not Taunt, Ditto will just taunt you and halt your stragety.

Pain Split
Magic Coat
Protect (When they get to 6% you need to protect, you can make slight adjustments for low and high hp pokes though)
Filler that will be no use to Ditto but will be lulzy when he uses it against you.

 

[Wave⁂]

Would it be worth it to run Endure?

 

[Pluvia]

Well it's filler so I guess Endure could get you another 2 turns of residual damage thanks to it and Protect.

Edit: Though not if you're running Hail.

 

[Circa]

Yeah, I was about to say that Hail is usually the better option, due to better coverage against things. Remember that Hail damage is dealt before Leftovers. The biggest problem with Hail that I can think of is that you have to watch out for Pokemon utilizing negative priority; most specifically Focus Punch. Luckily though, the only major user of the move is now going Technician crazy and using Mach Punch instead of Focus Punch.

Both strategies lose to the No Guard users though.

EDIT: Afaik Endure still runs on the same counter as Protect, so it's not worth running both on the same moveset as Endure's chance to fail will be the same as Protect on the following turn. If you know what I mean.

 

[xxmoosexx]

So does anyone else see a rise in heavily defensive Gliscor?

I think Gyarados will only serve as a Blaziken/Infernape(lol) counter.

 

[Pluvia]

Gyra will be able to kill Gliscor as long is it doesn't run Rock Slide.

Anyway is it only me or does it look like people have forgotten what Fighting's weak to? No, don't switch your Roo into my Honch, you will die!

 

[xxmoosexx]

Are you positive that would OHKO a Roopushin? What about a +1 Def Roopushin?

That and can your honchkrow survive a Stone Miss?

Its not the fact that he doesn't have counters. It's the fact that he can OHKO all of the ones that threaten to 2HKO him.

That and Honchkrow takes neutral damage from Fighting. If you switch in on a Drain Punch...you lose a chunk of HP, he gets HP, if SR is up thats going to hurt. And if your low enough he may try a STAB Iron Fist Mach Punch. If he is Choice Banded you will eat some serious damage and he will switch out unless he thinks he can kill you in the next hit. That is going to hurt. Honchkrow has mediocre defenses. And Roopushin has 140 atk.

Gliscor seems to be the only counter to him in my eyes.

Has anyone thought about an Iron Fist-Expert Belt Roopushin? In effect he is getting a boost from Life Orb without the recoil.
Iron fist boosts punching moves by 30% right? So that takes care of Drain Punch and Mach punch.
Expert Belt gives Stone Edge and Payback 30% boost on Flying and Ghosts, respectfully.

AND it gives you the option to switch moves. Sounds like a beast set to me.

 

[mood4food77]

thankfully he doesn't get the elemental punches

his normal moveset is usually

Bulk Up
Mach Punch
Payback
Drain Punch

seriously, he's too strong for his bulk, you basically need to sacrifice him, then send in something faster that resists mach punch and can threaten to finish him off

he's such a pain

why can't gamefreak give aerodactyl head smash and brave bird? seriously, it would be a beast

 

[Pluvia]

No I mean people keep on switching Roo's into my Krow. Even with Mach Punch Roo can only 2H0K Krow and Krow can 1HOK him with Brave Bird, but almost 95% of the time I never get hit by Mach Punch and manage to KO them before anything happens. The only explanation I can think of is that people forget Fighting is weak to Flying.

It's like how people try to Toxic Gengar sometimes.

 

[xxmoosexx]

No I mean people keep on switching Roo's into my Krow. Even with Mach Punch Roo can only 2H0K Krow and Krow can 1HOK him with Brave Bird, but almost 95% of the time I never get hit by Mach Punch and manage to KO them before anything happens. The only explanation I can think of is that people forget Fighting is weak to Flying.

It's like how people try to Toxic Gengar sometimes.

Oh lol.

Well what do you expect? Each Gen must bring in more noobs.
Most people are blind that Roopushin isn't invincible(although pretty darn close to it).
Its just because of all the noobs coming in.

thankfully he doesn't get the elemental punches

his normal moveset is usually

Bulk Up
Mach Punch
Payback
Drain Punch

seriously, he's too strong for his bulk, you basically need to sacrifice him, then send in something faster that resists mach punch and can threaten to finish him off

he's such a pain

why can't gamefreak give aerodactyl head smash and brave bird? seriously, it would be a beast

Actually I looked at the statistics given by Pokemon Online and it says his #1 set is choice banded
Choice Band
Mach Punch
Drain Punch
Stone Edge
Payback

Personally I think my idea is pretty good. I'd like some opinions on it.
Roopushin
252HP/252Atk/6Def
Iron Fist w/ Expert Belt
Mach Punch
Drain Punch
Stone Edge
Payback

He basically gets a 30% boost on every attack he has and retains the ability of switching moves and takes no Life Orb recoil.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Why are we complaining about Roopushin? People will learn how to get around its Mach Punch like how we learned how to get around Machamp's Dynamic Punch in Gen 4.

I'm hoping Dory and Shandy get a very quick ban I'm getting tired of those 2 very fast.

 

[mood4food77]

because we know how to deal with both of those pokes, they're just dumb

roopushin is much harder to play around than those 2

 

[Yonder]

Lol I love how ditto got good in Gen 5 apparently XD

 

[xxmoosexx]

Okay. Since it doesnt seem like Lati@s is going to be banned...what DEFENSIVE threats are there that they can't setup on?
Other than blissey(assuming she works)
Other than ScarfTar
Other than Scizor

 

[xxmoosexx]

Why are we complaining about Roopushin? People will learn how to get around its Mach Punch like how we learned how to get around Machamp's Dynamic Punch in Gen 4.

I'm hoping Dory and Shandy get a very quick ban I'm getting tired of those 2 very fast.

But they are so easy to counter!
Dory gets wrecked by basically any priority move(Aqua Jet and Mach Punch)
Shandera...HAVE YOU EVEN THOUGHT OF SHED SHELL
I mean LOL. He is so EASY to counter compared to Roopu.
Do you have a bulky water on your team?
Do you have a special wall on your teamcoughblisseycough?
Do you have a shandera of your own(w/flash fire)?
Do you HAVE A HEATRAN?
Do you have HOUNDOOM(best counter, resits both stabs and is immune to one)?
Do you have that ULGAMOTH thing of doom?
Lol what kind of team are you running?

I had a heatran on my old team and he absolutely LOVED switching in on a shandera's overheat because they thought they had me trapped with shadow tag. TOO BAD I HAD SHED SHELL on my nattorei.

Scarftran is ****ing awesome.
I've swept teams with that dude plenty of times.



Oh and IMO. Roopushin doesn't have a counter. It hits all its counters with Super Effective moves. And I want to see what pokemon are going to OHKO it after he invests in HP Atk and possibly SpDef.
NOT HAPPENING.

At first I thought Terakion was the best Physical attacker that Pokemon has come by. Now I realize the foolishness in my words as i look at the behemoth that dictates that i have a separate pokemon to counter it, lest i be torn apart by his hands holding giant cement blocks of destruction.

 

[The Real Gamer]

because we know how to deal with both of those pokes, they're just dumb

roopushin is much harder to play around than those 2

Roopushin is harder to deal with than Shandy and Dory? The 2 most controversial Pokemon in the current metagame?

You're kidding me right? It's so **** predictable.

I still have yet to come across any Roopushin without this moveset:

Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Mach Punch
Stone Edge/Payback

Am I missing something?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Lol I love how ditto got good in Gen 5 apparently XD

I mean, if any of us said we were in danger of a Ditto sweep half a year ago everyone would have laughed at you. Assuming Eccentric Ditto will be released, Ditto's gonna be a legitimate "threat".

 

[PowerBomb]

The only reason why Shandy and Dory are so difficult to deal with are their abilities: Shadow Tag and Sand Throw, respectively. Get rid of Shadow Tag for Shandy and guess what? A subpar sweeper with mediocre speed. Granted, it can be remedied by Nitro Charge, but Shandy gets blocked by Blissey/Heatran, depending on what Hidden Power it runs (Ground/Fighting usually in my case).

Dory just needs Sandstorm to actually smash stuff, unless you're using Choice Band/Scarf on him for some reason with Sand Power (never seen this). Base 88 Speed is trollish, but being weak to Water, Fire, and Ground (bar balloon) kind of hurts him. Plus, he can't deal with Gliscor unless he's SDing and using Sand Power.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Dory and Shandy are easily dealt with.

A steel wall or ground type with phazing move and/or EQ...that brings to mind Hippowdon and Gliscor that can't be touched by Dory.

Shandy...put shed shell on your walls. Have a bulky water/blissey/ faster threat with flash fire.

Roopushin...lets see. Oh no DRAIN PUNCH! Lets throw in a ghost
Oh no Payback lets throw in a flying pokemon
Oh no its Stone Edge
We are back to square one.

Skarmory DOES NOT WALL him out when he has drain punch. Skarmory can phaze but he's not going to enjoy multiple hits (roughly 2 if banded).
Gliscor can try and laugh at it...but he wont enjoy stone edge at all. And if it crits..he's done for.

PLEASE tell me a useful counter pokemon that can be used for more than just doing away with Roopu...and i want a COUNTER not something he will just switch out of and can later be killed easily. Im talking about a wall that can go toe-to-toe against him and come out on top.

Skarmory can take a +2 rock slide TWICE and whirlwind away.
Shed Shell deals with shandy.

The two most controversial pokemon are EXTREMELY GOOD at what they do. But its easy to deny them that very niche that made them "broken" in the first place.

The only way Shandera will become broken is if people start to use him to trap and kill a large majority of the OU cast. Wobo was Uber due to his MASSIVE hp and his ability to trap and kill almost every pokemon.
Shandera does that to a lesser extent. It has to rely on being scarfed and is pretty frail on the physical side iirc. I think Shandera will become Uber if he is used for more than switching in to get rid of the opponent's nattorei.

Thats just my take on it though.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I would love to respond to all of this but I have waaaay too much homework tonight.

Expect retaliation sometime later...

 

[xxmoosexx]

I would love to respond to all of this but I have waaaay too much homework tonight.

Expect retaliation sometime later...

Yay. I like friendly arguments. They are fun :D

 

[Moozle]

The hardest Shanderra sets to deal with, imo, are substitute sets. Heatran gets ***** by hp ground and blissey has one hell of a time trying to break a sub, especially if its running CM. Saying that Shandy is only good with scarf is just...not smart.

If you're worried about a choice band set on Roobushin (which no one runs because its bad), then just have a ghost handy. If you're worried about iron fist abusers, just have a ghost/any pokemon with will-o-wisp. The most common variant (that many people above have mentioned), IS a pain in the butt to deal with, but it's not impossible. Bulk up is really good, so most people get rid of stone edge in favor of Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Mach Punch/Payback. In this case, it's not hard to find someone (Bulky gyarados for example) who can easily wall Roobushin most of the time. Shanderra comes in on a fighting move and OHKOs with Overheat. Dory, in my opinion, is way harder to deal with than both Shanderra and Roobushin.

 

[xxmoosexx]

The hardest Shanderra sets to deal with, imo, are substitute sets. Heatran gets ***** by hp ground and blissey has one hell of a time trying to break a sub, especially if its running CM. Saying that Shandy is only good with scarf is just...not smart.

If you're worried about a choice band set on Roobushin (which no one runs because its bad), then just have a ghost handy. If you're worried about iron fist abusers, just have a ghost/any pokemon with will-o-wisp. The most common variant (that many people above have mentioned), IS a pain in the butt to deal with, but it's not impossible. Bulk up is really good, so most people get rid of stone edge in favor of Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Mach Punch/Payback. In this case, it's not hard to find someone (Bulky gyarados for example) who can easily wall Roobushin most of the time. Shanderra comes in on a fighting move and OHKOs with Overheat. Dory, in my opinion, is way harder to deal with than both Shanderra and Roobushin.

Okay. You got me. I haven't ran into a set with substitutes yet. So it never really dawned on me. Sorry for my short sighted-ness. But bulky waters still seem to be an option.

Personally I ran Balloon Heatran Substitute and soaked up his Overheat then killed with Earthpower or setup a sub.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Why can't Shandera get Trick ;_;

it would make me so happy. <3

 

[Pluvia]

Roobushin can't to anything to Toxic Hippowdon.

Anyway once my Chomp gets banned I'm never going to be able to stop Dory. Hopefully Dory will go soon after that.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Chomp is harder to deal with than Dorry imo.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I never can grasp what made Chomp Uber. Was it the fact that to counter you had to lose a pokemon to find out what kind it was to counter? Or just the fact that it demolished about everything?

Doesnt skarmory wall it out?

I think Ono is scary with his mold breaker. I switched in my Skarm and forgot he had EQ and quickly switched back out lol.

I might try that Toxic Hippowdon and make my gliscor a lead instead.

OR MY BLASTOISE

Blastoise absolutely ***** **** up at the end of Gen 4. I loved it.

 

[UltiMario]

Mold Breaker doesn't hit through Flying Type, moose... It only hits through levitate...

SD Ono can 2HKO you with Outrage though LOL

 

[Moozle]

I've never really had a problem with Garchomp either, but I don't think Skarm walls it that well. I'm not sure how much a +2 fire punch does to standard skarm, but I'm going to assume it's a pretty substantial amount. Porygon 2 still ***** Chomp Although SD yache berry variants can be a pain.

For Shandera bulky waters could be pretty good. Suicune would have CM to help (although a CM war would be bad since shadow ball has a chance to lower Sp.Def) and Vaporeon would have roar (does roar work on ghost types) and higher hp and wish and such. The only pokemon I would like to go to ubers is Dory.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I dislike how Pory2 walls so much. I guess I just never use anything bulky enough to actually deal with scarfchomp, which is annoying because I hate slowing down my playstyle to tank hits from scarfed mons.

 

[Moozle]

I dislike how Pory2 walls so much. I guess I just never use anything bulky enough to actually deal with scarfchomp, which is annoying because I hate slowing down my playstyle to tank hits from scarfed mons.

Froslass@Choice Scarf
Snow cloak / Timid
252 Sp. Attack / 4 Sp. Def / 252 Speed
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt
~Shadowball
~Spikes

Outspeeds and OHKOs Garchomp, and Shandera after SR lol. I might use it for lols.

Edit: This outspeeds jolly scarfchomp. Modest is like 15 points away from outspeeding Jolly I don't know what they usually run, so you could maaaaaybe run modest for extra power (killing through yache berry) in hopes that they run adamant. Also helps with killing shandera w/out SR.