Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Wave⁂]

Huh. At what point are the two equal?

 

[kirbyraeg]

I think it's around base 100 where they're the closest to being the same.

 

[Kofu]

Base 101, 252 Speed EVs and +Nature: 331 Speed
Base 116, 252 Speed EVs and Neutral Nature: 331 Speed.

Right there. The trend continues through 105/120 Speed.
Past that, it's at the 106/121 Speed mark that it reverses by 1 point.

Speed is ridiculous.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Smogon is blocked..D: Im usually done with my work at school if I post on here or at my house. Our school has given out laptops till we are seniors and it rocks. So some sites are blocked. Too bad Smogon is. Along with Mariland. AND Bulbapedia.

Sorry. I will try to read bettar.

 

[Wave⁂]

My high school blocked Smogon, but Google cache worked because I know how to use the internet.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Nvm. I got it.

 

[PowerBomb]

Has anyone tried LO Encourage DD Feraligatr? Its power surprised me.

Encourage LO Nidoking is also pretty beast with his special movepool.

Running Earth Power/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam.

Smashes stuff right open, but his stats does leave a lot to be desired. Blissey stops him completely too. Until we get Gray Version tutors or something, Superpower is off limits (kinda sucks).

 

[Moozle]

I tried DD Encourage Feraligatr, but I still prefer Bulky DD Gyarados. It has a better typing (for both bulky and synergy purposes) and just seems to work better with lots of power and even more survivability. I run DD/Taunt/Waterfall/Bounce, and it has proved to still work great this generation.

 

[M.K]

So you're browsing at school? If swf isn't blocked I'm sure you'd manage to get on smogon.

SWF is not blocked at my school, but Smogon is.

 

[Hobobloke]

Neither was blocked at my school.

What server do you guys play on? I usually just stick to /tr/ myself.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Neither was blocked at my school.

What server do you guys play on? I usually just stick to /tr/ myself.

We've usually been playing on Beta or /tr/, but Machamp's Pants should be fixed soon along with some projects alongside his Pants.

@School-viewing discussion (how did this happen) - I can view both sites from my school computers.

 

[PowerBomb]

I tried DD Encourage Feraligatr, but I still prefer Bulky DD Gyarados. It has a better typing (for both bulky and synergy purposes) and just seems to work better with lots of power and even more survivability. I run DD/Taunt/Waterfall/Bounce, and it has proved to still work great this generation.

I haven't seen any Gyarados at all. Most of the time, I've seen Roobushin/Dory/weather. I haven't too many Ditto either.

Roobushin is such a pain in the ***. Dory isn't as bad since Mach Punch from anything with STAB and a nice Attack deal with it.

 

[Vlade]

Not sure if it's been discussed but:

Aianto with Truant using befriend

Switch to Shandera with Shadow Tag and the following moves: Substitute, Calm Mind, Protect, Flamethrower

If you get aianto in on the right poke it's a free +6

 

[Circa]

Befriend Aianto with Double Team Erufuun running Taunt in its final slot instead of Encore. With a couple layers of TSpikes it's even better, but not necessary. You can do the same thing with Minimize / Cosmic Power / Seismic Toss / Toxic Clefable.

Nattorei and the random Grass / Poison Pokemon become your only big threats with Erufuun because they can take a crack at PP stalling you. The main threats to Clefable are basically just Rest users and Ghosts faster than Clefable with Substitute.

I know that Double Team and Minimize and the like probably won't stick around, but for the meantime you might as well abuse the **** out of them so they can actually get banned again.

 

[M.K]

Few things:

-Can Kyuremu and Scarf-Ditto please be banned already? I mean, jesus, Scarf Ditto punishes set ups, just as Kyuremu is too overpowered for competitive play. If it sucks in Ubers, oh well, but it's still too good for normal play.

-Sandstorm is boss. I'm a weather *****, so I just made a Sandstorm team.

-I hate the new "see your team and rearrange your 'mons" thing. It's ...eww.

 

[Kofu]

Few things:

-Can Kyuremu and Scarf-Ditto please be banned already? I mean, jesus, Scarf Ditto punishes set ups, just as Kyuremu is too overpowered for competitive play. If it sucks in Ubers, oh well, but it's still too good for normal play.

-Sandstorm is boss. I'm a weather *****, so I just made a Sandstorm team.

-I hate the new "see your team and rearrange your 'mons" thing. It's ...eww.

-Haven't faced either, the first is due to the fact I play Wi-fi; the second is due to the fact that I haven't played much. I haven't heard that Kyurem is too good though. Most people are actually harping on how "outclassed" it is due to its mediocre typing and movepool.

-Obviously.

-I don't, I think it's interesting.

 

[M.K]

-Haven't faced either, the first is due to the fact I play Wi-fi; the second is due to the fact that I haven't played much. I haven't heard that Kyurem is too good though. Most people are actually harping on how "outclassed" it is due to its mediocre typing and movepool.

-Obviously.

-I don't, I think it's interesting.

-It's not simply the fact that it's good, it's just so out of place in this metagame. I'm sure it will be way outclassed in Ubers, but that's where it belongs. Scarf Ditto is stupid, pretty much ruins any sort of attempt to set up and sweep (something that SHOULD be rewarded. It's teaching that you shouldn't set up to win, even though you should...and it's the point. The reward for doing so is the win. It'd be like rewarding the opponent by using a Normal-type move on a Ghost).

-=P LOVE weather teams. Gettin' a bad rap, though.

-Eh, it's alright. The only Pokemon that really matters is the lead, and I've already seen a Zoroark strategy completely demolished by the system, which was lulzy.

 

[Kofu]

As for the last point, it's more important than that; it's usually not too hard for me to figure out the lead, given the team. Knowing the members beforehand can make a great deal of difference, especially when it comes to immunities.

Speaking of immunities, if Heatran didn't have Flash Fire, I guarantee it would be lower.

 

[Moozle]

I'm having a horrible time deciding between Analyze and Trace for my porygon2. I've been using Trace this whole time and it has worked wonders in a lot of situations, but would Analyze be better as a more generally useful ability?

 

[PowerBomb]

Think of a situation where Analyze would be more useful. I mean, it still kills most of the dragons and cripples sweepers (bar Dory, stupid mole).

 

[Wave⁂]

Analyze isn't so great because you don't need power, the majority of your primary targets are frail.

 

[Moozle]

You're right about the dragons and stupid dory, but it would be nice to have against Burungeru (who is a pretty big annoyance to a lot of my team) or pokemon that i can't rely on toxic for.

 

[PowerBomb]

Just Toxic Pringles and it becomes pretty manageable. Either that or Voltolos deals with it pretty nicely. Are most Burungeru Specially or Physically defensive?

 

[Kofu]

Burungeru should be more specially defensive, as that's where its power lies.

I haven't had a problem with it though. Nattorei, on the other hand, has been annoying to deal with.

 

[PowerBomb]

Burungeru should be more specially defensive, as that's where its power lies.

I haven't had a problem with it though. Nattorei, on the other hand, has been annoying to deal with.

Nattorei is annoying to deal with on Rain teams, but from how I've been doing, HP Fire Latios/Nidoking crack it open. Birijion also laughs at anything it does and sets up, providing it doesn't use Thunder Wave (and the majority I've met don't for some reason).

 

[Wave⁂]

Wait, how does Pory2 handle Doryuuzu? I imagine Ice Beam wouldn't do too much, and Discharge would do even less.

 

[Vlade]

Pory2 running max hp and max def still gets OHKO'd by Doryuuzu's +2 earthquake iirc

Ditto is pretty much useless against my team (which isn't very good admittedly). Pretty much every Ditto user I've faced has switched in on my specs Latios and just Draco Meteored so I just switch to scizor :S

I've faced Kyuremu a number of times but I haven't experienced his wrath, could you please enlighten me on what makes him uber-worthy Metakirby?


I also keep losing to bulk-up Roobushin, maybe it's time I added ditto to my own team >_>

I think offensive leads with lum berry are the way to go atm

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wait, how does Pory2 handle Doryuuzu? I imagine Ice Beam wouldn't do too much, and Discharge would do even less.

i c wut u did thaar.

But, how much does Porygon2 take from Doryuuzu with a Pre-Evolution Stone? If Porygon2 is running Trace then Sand Strength or Sand Throw is copied and you're faster or something. The aforementioned Ice Beam would do decent damage, enough to whittle away while Recovering off damage?
Not being able to Thunder Wave or Toxic it is a huge letdown though.

 

[Kofu]

Porygon2 with Max Defense, HP, and Pre-evolution stone has stats of 374/459.

MAX Attack Doryuuzu, Swords Dance, Life Orb Earthquake does a max of 292.

It definitely survives it. I mean, Doryuuzu usually doesn't run Adamant and often not Life Orb. Porygon2 doesn't beat Doryuuzu one-on-one, but if you need it to be softened up for a priority user, it can definitely do the job.

 

[Wave⁂]

If Porygon2 is running Trace then Sand Strength or Sand Throw is copied and you're faster or something.

No player or Pokémon uses Sand Strength. And you're slow as ****, and even after +2 from Sand Throw you're still slow as **** compared to Dory.

 

[Moozle]

I think offensive leads with lum berry are the way to go atm

I agree. I have been running the standard lead Metagross set with Lum Berry (SR/Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Bullet Punch) and it does really really well. I love the way it beats Machamp leads especially ^^ One lead that gives me a bit of trouble, though, is voltolos.

Also, I wish porygonZ got trace, because then it would be awesome for taking out weather abusers.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Offensive leads don't need lum, they need to be functionally immune to status.

Like Nidoking.

 

[Gates]

I agree. I have been running the standard lead Metagross set with Lum Berry (SR/Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Bullet Punch) and it does really really well. I love the way it beats Machamp leads especially ^^ One lead that gives me a bit of trouble, though, is voltolos.

I've actually been using Attacking Metagross as a lead (Occa Berry, Meteor Miss, Earthquake, Bullet Punch, Explosion). It's been working well. Voltolos is less of a problem since they always spend a turn Taunting which gives me time to Meteor Mash for attack boosts. Occa Berry + Max HP EVs means that if I'm at or around full health, I'll pretty much always be able to survive any fire attack short of something like Shandera Overheat.

 

[Wave⁂]

Still running Explosion? I'd rather use Thunderpunch or even Grass Knot.

 

[JOE!]

hold on a sec guys

i feel like we discussed this exact thing already

?

 

[Gates]

Still running Explosion? I'd rather use Thunderpunch or even Grass Knot.

Grass Knot? What?

But yeah, even though Explosion isn't nearly as good as it was in Gen IV, it's still a 250 power attack that hits everything but ghosts and steels. A statused Metagross is as good as dead anyway, so if he ever gets burnt or paralyzed I just blow him up and recoup from there.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f61/kiklis/metaditto2.png ?

That is a really good photoshop.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What are you doing. (@Joe)

I agree with Wave?. Explosion has become much less viable on everything (read as: everything) because of the change in not dropping Defense. I don't know whether to consider this as good on previous wallers like Weezing or general offensive Pokemon like Metagross as it can free up some stuff. But Special attackers which uses to lure Blissey (something like Heatran?) really miss it a lot. Explosion will definitely lose usage.

But not Selfdestruct Snorlax.

 

[JOE!]

it was related to the hyped up ditto convo earlier...

I clicked on "see last post" and for god knows why it linked me to the ditto discussion like...6 pages prior to now.

I couldnt resist jumping on what I quoted, but i thought it was up to date....

 

[Gates]

You know what tery, you're right. A base 250 physical normal attack is just downright terrible on 404 Atk Metagross. What was I thinking.

 

[mood4food77]

it was related to the hyped up ditto convo earlier...

I clicked on "see last post" and for god knows why it linked me to the ditto discussion like...6 pages prior to now.

I couldnt resist jumping on what I quoted, but i thought it was up to date....

dude, i smoked before i posted so i was trippin balls from like everything

but anyways, i hate kyurema, you seriously need SR and spikes to be out there and hopefully have a revenge killer that hits it for SE damage

i know it's a lot of stuff to check it but because of MH users, it's harder to get hazards out and then there's revenge killing with ditto, scizor, or fighting types, who all are at least 2HKO'd by it anyways, and when it has full life, it can definitely take 2 SE hits from all non-boosted priority moves

it's just...dumb