Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[PowerBomb]

dude, i smoked before i posted so i was trippin balls from like everything

but anyways, i hate kyurema, you seriously need SR and spikes to be out there and hopefully have a revenge killer that hits it for SE damage

i know it's a lot of stuff to check it but because of MH users, it's harder to get hazards out and then there's revenge killing with ditto, scizor, or fighting types, who all are at least 2HKO'd by it anyways, and when it has full life, it can definitely take 2 SE hits from all non-boosted priority moves

it's just...dumb

Every Kyuremu I see is either Spec'd or Scarfed. And once they're locked onto Draco Meteor, something else can set up and go from there. Again, Nattorei = big help if it's locked onto Draco Meteor. Generally, it's revenged pretty easily after it kills something due to its 'bad speed'.

 

[mood4food77]

if your team doesn't revolve around entry hazards or doesn't have a revenge killer that hits kyurema for SE damage (like my team does), it's a ***** and a half

seriously, once the enemies steel type is removed, it can pretty much cake walk through the enemy

 

[Circa]

if your team doesn't revolve around entry hazards or doesn't have a revenge killer that hits kyurema for SE damage (like my team does), it's a ***** and a half

Considering a lot of people like to run either Roopushin or Breloom to handle Doryuuzu, Kyuremu probably isn't going to be a huge issue for a lot of teams.

I know that some teams don't have them, but there are still other options as well. They just happen to be the first couple to come to my mind that can pretty much just deal with it.

 

[mood4food77]

scizor, ditto, roopushin, and breloom are just about the only things that can safely revenge kill a kyurema

then they need SR to be up for them to have a shot at OHKOing

it's just...obnoxious

 

[Gates]

Machamp?

Metagross?

Fatser dragons?

u mad?

 

[Circa]

Fatser dragons?

What I love about this typo is that, ironically, the only non-Uber dragon who is unquestionably 'fatser' than Kyuremu is the only one who can't really revenge kill it.

 

[M.K]

Bahahahahahahaha.

I'm totally not letting you change that.

 

[Gates]

lmfao

Circa, you misread Kyurem's weight though. Kyurem weighs 325 kg (716.5 lbs). The only dragons that are fatser than it are Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, and Zekrom.

 

[UltiMario]

You know what tery, you're right. A base 250 physical normal attack is just downright terrible on 404 Atk Metagross. What was I thinking.

I hope you're not being sarcastic, because this statement is absolutely correct.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

You know what tery, you're right. A base 250 physical normal attack is just downright terrible on 404 Atk Metagross. What was I thinking.

Of course it isn't! Don't know know Pokemon is a game where STAB is everything?

Blame me for not knowing anything about OU.

 

[Wave⁂]

Pursuit Metagross. THERE.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I argue that Bronzong is the greatest Dorry counter ever.

It can even beat those gimmicky dorry that run Balloon over LO/Lum, as Gyro Ball+Earthquake 2hkos it, and he doesn't get 2HKO'ed by +2 X-scissor with a moderately physically defensive set.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

We were discussing this on Skype, and I may have missed the damage calculation discussion part, but Adamant Choice Band Azumarill with Aqua Jet? Azumarill has Huge Power, of course.

I actually haven't seen Doryuuzu much (I've faced more Zekrom and Genosekt unfortunately) but it seems his base 110 HP is rather ridiculous.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Azumarill/Roopushin both finish off min-HP dorry with their choiced priority.

 

[Wave⁂]

The problem is that Dory probably has 95% HP. Dory revenge killers are basically:

Gardevoir (Focus Miss sucks)
Roopushin / Azumarill / Breloom (not enough power)
Scarf Jolly Dugtrio (OHKOs, but is ****ing ****ty)
Scarf Alakazam / other fast guy
Scarf / Balloon Doryuuzu
Ninetales

 

[Wrath`]

SO is Dorry the new Garchomp, as in you need a speciific counter for it, and it's only going to be able to come in on the revenge kill?

I wonder witch one was more annoying, I didn't play OU during 4th gen that much, so I do not know hoe Bad Garchomp was.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Any steel with a balloon will do. Or a levitator. Or Skarmory.

Claydol would do well vs. ones that run rapid spin over x-scissor. Same for Torterra.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

The problem is that Dory probably has 95% HP. Dory revenge killers are basically:

Gardevoir (Focus Miss sucks)
Roopushin / Azumarill / Breloom (not enough power)
Scarf Jolly Dugtrio (OHKOs, but is ****ing ****ty)
Scarf Alakazam / other fast guy
Scarf / Balloon Doryuuzu
Ninetales

Wait so max Attack Choice Band Azumarill can't KO with Aqua Jet?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Not if it has max/close to max HP, no. It CAN, but it isn't guaranteed.

Consider SR and LO recoil:

654 Atk vs 156 Def & 424 HP (40 Base Power): 360 - 426 (84.91% - 100.47%)

They can't afford to run max HP, but with any kind of bulk it has a shot of not being 1hko'ed.

 

[Wrath`]

I did see a battle where a Claydoll survived X-Scizzor and trick roomed. But I don't know if Dorry was scarfed.

 

[Gates]

The problem is that Dory probably has 95% HP. Dory revenge killers are basically:

Gardevoir (Focus Miss sucks)
Roopushin / Azumarill / Breloom / Iron Fist CB Infernape (not enough power)
Scarf Jolly Dugtrio (OHKOs, but is ****ing ****ty)
Scarf Alakazam / other fast guy
Scarf Doryuuzu
Ninetales
Ditto

Fixed.

Baloon Doryuuzu won't work if the Doryuzu you're trying to kill has Brick Break.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Remember way back in the day I posted a Lead Nidoking set?

It's pretty good, even now, especially because of Encourage being like a million times better than Rivalry.

Nidoking @ Focus Sash
252 SpAtk/136 Spe/120 Atk
Rash / Encourage

Earth Power
Thunderbolt/Flamethrower
Ice Beam/Flamethrower
Sucker Punch / Superpower

His movepool is wtf good, and the Encourage boost lets him deal out an SE move+Sucker Punch to finish off frailer leads. He's immune to Sandstorm, Toxic, and Thunder Wave, so his Focus Sash can actually get some use vs. most things. Sucker Punch lets him beat other Sashers. Speed beats out neutral-nature base 70s, but he can run more since his movepool is basically all special anyway except for Sucker Punch. He has the lower-accuracy alternatives if you have team support for them (Abomasnow for Blizzard, Politoed for Thunder, etc.)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I actually run the Life Orb Encourage set, but since Pokemon Online hasn't fixed the glitch between Encourage and Life Orb, it's been exploited more often than it should be.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Encourage / Modest
4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd
~ Earth Power
~ Fire Blast / Flamethrower
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt

Nidoking doesn't really have the physical movepool to abuse Encourage since Earthquake isn't boosted. Great coverage on the special spectrum, backed by Encourage and Earth Power. It's been doing great, when Life Orb isn't giving it recoil every turn. ._.

 

[Wave⁂]

I didn't include Ditto to my list because Ditto revenge kills everything. Except +6 / +6 Zuruzukin.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I didn't include Ditto to my list because Ditto revenge kills everything. Except +6 / +6 Zuruzukin.

I see what you did there. And this statement is absolutely correct.

Edit - Well, unless the Zuruzukin is running Brick Break for whatever stupid reason that would be.

 

[PowerBomb]

I actually run the Life Orb Encourage set, but since Pokemon Online hasn't fixed the glitch between Encourage and Life Orb, it's been exploited more often than it should be.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Encourage / Modest
4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd
~ Earth Power
~ Fire Blast / Flamethrower
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt

Nidoking doesn't really have the physical movepool to abuse Encourage since Earthquake isn't boosted. Great coverage on the special spectrum, backed by Encourage and Earth Power. It's been doing great, when Life Orb isn't giving it recoil every turn. ._.

Wait, I thought Encourage negated Life Orb recoil on boosted moves? Is this false or true?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Apparently it DOES do that, and they confirmed that the effects of both stack. Oh my, I didn't know that at all.

It also shows us one of many things that PO does wrong. Like Life Orb recoil from hitting a Substitute.

yeah basically po is dumb.

 

[mood4food77]

if PO wasn't so haxy, it wouldn't be as much of a big deal to me

but missing a combination of hydro pump, toxic, and will-o-wisp 12 times in a row really does make you mad

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wait, I thought Encourage negated Life Orb recoil on boosted moves? Is this false or true?

It does, and that's the glitch. Pokemon Online still gives Life Orb recoil on Encourage users.

if PO wasn't so haxy, it wouldn't be as much of a big deal to me

but missing a combination of hydro pump, toxic, and will-o-wisp 12 times in a row really does make you mad

That's not hax or a Pokemon Online glitch. That's just the worst luck possible.

 

[PowerBomb]

I've missed with Sleep Powder four times in a row against a boosting Qwilfish. Then it parahaxed me once more before OHKOing my entire team. Made me rage so hard.

On the AiB server Encourage w/ LO recoil doesn't occur with boosted moves. PO fixed it or whatever?

 

[Wave⁂]

if PO wasn't so haxy, it wouldn't be as much of a big deal to me

but missing a combination of hydro pump, toxic, and will-o-wisp 12 times in a row really does make you mad

Shoddy had Hax Clause, and I think Pokemon Lab has it too.

 

[Gates]

I don't remember shoddy having hax clause. Or maybe I just never saw it.

 

[Wave⁂]

Nah, it happened.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I thought that was just a well-played joke.

 

[Wave⁂]

Way to ruin everything, kirbyraeg

 

[kirbyraeg]

it wasn't ruined until you confirmed it

714-512-8999

Just call, relax, and enjoy your party!

 

[Circa]

The problem is that Dory probably has 95% HP. Dory revenge killers are basically:

Gardevoir (Focus Miss sucks)
Roopushin / Azumarill / Breloom (not enough power)
Scarf Jolly Dugtrio (OHKOs, but is ****ing ****ty)
Scarf Alakazam / other fast guy
Scarf / Balloon Doryuuzu
Ninetales

Balloon Nidoking too, for what it matters.

Encourage Fire Blast OHKOs.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm pretty sure hax clause doesn't take into account missing 12 times in a row

and it's happened more than once, along with being paralyzed like 7 times in a row (no flinching needed)

it just feels so much more haxy than shoddy battle ever did

 

[PowerBomb]

I think it's an error. I saw a thread on the PO website about it a while ago.

Either that or you have horrible luck (which can happen).

 

[UltiMario]

Qwilfish

I lost.

Then I died.