Infinites: Why, exactly, are they allowed?

[_Phloat_]

Much like if the KKK was supporting your cause, all you people that barely string together sentences, much less with punctuation and proper sentence structure, aren't really helping.

We are at the point where we are just going in circles, and this thread really needs to die now. Sorry for what I hope to be the final bump, but I think we need closure!

If you are going to make a final point, make sure it hasn't been said and that it actually makes sense...

 

[MookieRah]

Isai really did say "Don't Get Hit"

I was there to witness him saying that at MOAST 3. Dunno if it was the first time he said it, but he sat my friend Moogle down (a good friend of Isai's from Huntsville, AL) and gave him advice after Moogle had lost the first match of a set in a tournament. One of the things was the famous "Don't get hit." advice.

 

[CStrife187]

thx mookie.

/thread

 

[JigglyZelda003]

We are at the point where we are just going in circles, and this thread really needs to die now. Sorry for what I hope to be the final bump, but I think we need closure!.

i thought this thread was already closed lol, i guess not.

 

[Eggz]

If those players would have put that effort into the better characters they would be better. Mario is bad, Brown Mario is an awesome player. Really people can dance around it all they want, but unless the character is apart of the top 2 tiers or has even-good match-ups against a significant portion of those characters(and yet somehow didn't make it to those tiers) the character is bad. If you do well with a bad character its because you were just that much better then your opponents(and would probably do better with a better char.)

this post is like pretty old n stuff, but i thought i'd just point out that im a fox main in melee and metaknight main in brawl and have been for like 3 years lol

 

[DEV64]

they should be banned we banned them in melee look at wobbling thats banned but not these grabs why there pretty much the same thing you get grabbed you die thats why it was banned so why not infinites they grab you,you die so ban them all ready!!

 

[fkacyan]

THREAD NECROMANCY.

All the cool kids are doing it.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

THREAD NECROMANCY.

All the cool kids are doing it.

If your going to restart this thread, I'll start the discussion with this.

Deal with the "cheap" stuff in games. They exist in almost every game ever, except Pong. Pong is perfectly balanced as far as I know.

Shut up and deal with it, or play Pong.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You are SO right. I'm going to bump a Banjo-Kazooie for Melee thread. Cause I'm cool like that.

 

[Yuna]

Deal with the infinites. They exist in almost every game ever, except Pong. Pong is perfectly balanced as far as I know.

Or not. There are plenty of games whose physics engines themselves prevent infinites from occuring. And most games that aren't fighting game lack infinites. Have you ever seen a Super Mario Bros. 3 infinite?

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Or not. There are plenty of games whose physics engines themselves prevent infinites from occuring. And most games that aren't fighting game lack infinites. Have you ever seen a Super Mario Bros. 3 infinite?

True, but most games played at competitive levels have some kind of BS that people will think is cheap.

Even Super Mario Bros 3 counts, remember the POW block? That thing was practically insta-loss when you were duking it out for cards. xD

But then again, Super Mario Bros 3 is a terrible competitive game, you only truly fight for a greater score, you can't directly compete really.

And I edited my first post. =P

 

[Grunt]

Or not. There are plenty of games whose physics engines themselves prevent infinites from occuring. And most games that aren't fighting game lack infinites. Have you ever seen a Super Mario Bros. 3 infinite?

Jump on a shell next to a wall.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Jump on a shell next to a wall.

I lol'd hard enough that I ROFLCOPTER'd. Seriously.

Thank you for making my day.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Have you ever seen a Super Mario Bros. 3 infinite?

Isn't there one? In the desert level with a turtle shell? You can just keep racking up points. I might be wrong though.

 

[Yuna]

True, but most games played at competitive levels have some kind of BS that people will think is cheap.

"Something idiots think is cheap" =/= Infinite

You specifically said "infinites".

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

"Something idiots think is cheap" =/= Infinite

You specifically said "infinites".

K, I'll admit I screwed up that sentence.

The general point was though, that BS exists in most games, and that if people don't like them, they should play Pong. xD

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Pong is unfair. Right side has disjointed hitboxes. XD

I know I'm just saying stupid stuff but I honestly don't see this topic escaping the circle o' logic.

 

[DEV64]

K, I'll admit I screwed up that sentence.

The general point was though, that BS exists in most games, and that if people don't like them, they should play Pong. xD

true but infintes arnt only cheap they practily destroy the game almost i mean poeple dont like brawl and quit why beacuse of this that or they dont enjoy it who likes getting grabbed over and over and over and over etc etc intil thet die its not fun thats why i hate IC hate um thay are not fun to play aginst beacuse of that and making the match not fun but all other charaters are fine mostly my freind hates falco for the same reason and does not have fun getting ***** over and over again so come on ban them make the game fun again **** it!!!

 

[ArcPoint]

Falco has a chaingrab, not an infinite, and the ICs are really hard to do, plus, all the fun is in avoiding their grabs in the first place =P

I have yet to find a player that gets 3 grabs and 3 stocks. But that's just me...

To Answer the OP's question: Play to win, no johns. Unless everyone chose DDD and infinited, it's not going to get banned.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

tip......

"don't get grabbed"

and when moneys on the line everyone will fight their dirtiest with little to no mercy to win anyway. is it unfun? you bet. but its how the game is.

 

[Nintendevil]

People of earth


All of these arguments can be countered, but there is one thing that throws all things out the door...













Counterpicking...

</end of topic>

 

[Metà]

Nintendevil just won this thread.

 

[DEV64]

tip......

"don't get grabbed"

and when moneys on the line everyone will fight their dirtiest with little to no mercy to win anyway. is it unfun? you bet. but its how the game is.

Falco has a chaingrab, not an infinite, and the ICs are really hard to do, plus, all the fun is in avoiding their grabs in the first place =P

I have yet to find a player that gets 3 grabs and 3 stocks. But that's just me...

To Answer the OP's question: Play to win, no johns. Unless everyone chose DDD and infinited, it's not going to get banned.

WHAT!! dont get grabbed thats insane you will get grabbed the only way not to is not attack cause if you do they shield grab you and your screwed but i do some what agree on the rest.

yeah your right falco dosent have an infinite my mistake but he can still 0 to death you easy which is what im most pist off about is that 0 to deathing people easy and who cares if its hard to infinite with IC a good player can do it easy and thats beside the piont if its there it should be banned its stupid we banned them for the most part in melee look at wobbling banned infinite bann this to. a DK mainer shoudnt have to be beat by every D3 player just because something that should be banned or every wolf mainer (like my friend)be beat by every falco they sould at least keep at a CG for D3 and no spicking at the end of falcos enless on the stage(at least) but just hurry and bann them already!!(im very very very very pissed about this)

 

[Nintendevil]

WHAT!! dont get grabbed thats insane you will get grabbed the only way not to is not attack cause if you do they shield grab you and your screwed but i do some what agree on the rest.

yeah your right falco dosent have an infinite my mistake but he can still 0 to death you easy which is what im most pist off about is that 0 to deathing people easy and who cares if its hard to infinite with IC a good player can do it easy and thats beside the piont if its there it should be banned its stupid we banned them for the most part in melee look at wobbling banned infinite bann this to. a DK mainer shoudnt have to be beat by every D3 player just because something that should be banned or every wolf mainer (like my friend)be beat by every falco they sould at least keep at a CG for D3 and no spicking at the end of falcos enless on the stage(at least) but just hurry and bann them already!!(im very very very very pissed about this)

....look at your post. Now look up just two posts up from there... read.

Also: the next time you post, use periods; Otherwise you portray a rabid 8 year old with skin rashes high on Red Bull.

 

[ArcPoint]

...Falco can't Zero Death anyone without improper DI by the opponent. It's quite easy to DI out of the spike... ANd just for the record, I AM a Wolf main, Falco can't Zero Death me with a chaingrab. the chaingrab's annoying, but instead of asking for a ban, I counterpick a character. =/


And as for the ICs, Keep them seperated, and avoid their SUPER SMALL grab box and you won't get grabbed, even if you DO get grabbed, if you seperated them properly, you can get out before Nana catches up with Popo. If the ICs infinites were so easy, then they'd be wrecking the tournament scene >_>

Basically, if you're Wolf or DK, you had better have a solid secondary, that's all there is to it, if you can't win with your main, go with someone who has less of a disadvantage or someone with more of an advantage. That's really all there is to it. What Nintendevil said.

Edit:

Also: the next time you post, use periods; Otherwise you portray a rabid 8 year old with skin rashes high on Red Bull.

Lmao xD An interesting take.

 

[Grunt]

infintes arnt only cheap they practily destroy the game almost i mean poeple dont like brawl and quit why beacuse of this that or they dont enjoy it who likes getting grabbed over and over and over and over etc etc intil thet die its not fun thats why i hate IC hate um thay are not fun to play aginst beacuse of that and making the match not fun but all other charaters are fine mostly my freind hates falco for the same reason and does not have fun getting ***** over and over again so come on ban them make the game fun again **** it!!!<-JOHNS

You should be banned.
This thread DIDN'T NEED TO BE BUMPED!
LET IT DIE!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

he could always conterpick with the IC's themselves, after all you can't infinite 2 people at the same time. even some of the infinites on Fox can be escaped or avoided all together with proper spacing, and he's practically infinited by the entire cast other than the IC.

 

[Kino]

...Falco can't Zero Death anyone without improper DI by the opponent. It's quite easy to DI out of the spike... ANd just for the record, I AM a Wolf main, Falco can't Zero Death me with a chaingrab. the chaingrab's annoying, but instead of asking for a ban, I counterpick a character. =/

its cause its not an infinite. you can avoid it. its not possible to avoid an infinite, once its started theres no stopping, you can avoid a falco cg to death, its difficult with some characters, but your life is dependant on the falco predicting your di etc against your di, if he kills you, gj to him and bad job to you, if you avoid it, its his fault. if you get infinited by IC or D3 its not realistic to blame yourself for getting grabbed. grabbing someone is very easy, you cant blame yourself for being grabbed because the noobiest noob can grab a pro in a game, there will not be a way the pro can consistently avoid being grabbed without an infinite, sometimes the noob will get lucky or grow smart and get the grab in. i could teach a noob the D3 infinite quite easily, i know i could because my brother is a noob and i play him sometimes.

Competitve games is about competing against someone to prove whos better. If i can teach someone whos never played the game before to get a grab in and do the infinite with D3 quite easily, and that noob now has the potential to beat a pro if he selects a certain character, it does not mean the noob is better. because obviously the pro is a better player. Yuna early on in this thread kept saying "Its not about being the best, its about winning" That phrase is utter BS.

Does that mean if I sneakily slip some BBQ marinade on your control when your not looking inside a miniscule gap between your GC control stick and the computer chip that controls it, and it screws up your aging GC pad. does that count that i win? and does it mean im better than you? No. it does not. the game would stop because the player can no longer control his character and put up a fight.

OH WAIT NO MAAAN YOU SHOULDNT OF LET HIM PUT THE MARINADE ON UR PAD DUDE U GOTTA WATCH OUT HAHAHAHA

the same logic is used for infinites. "OH WAIT NO MAAAN YOU SHOULDNT OF LET HIM PUT THE GRAB ON UR CHARACTER DUDE U GOTTA WATCH OUT HAHAHAHA"

Do supporters of infinites agree with me? i have never been infinited, i am not a crybaby coming here. i agree with the OP of this topic and i disagree with the arguments faced towards him.

 

[Yuna]

It's your fault for getting hit by Snake's tilts. Ban his tilts which shut down the majority of the moves in the game, I say!

When does a strategy become "too stupid" to be allowed? The infinites aren't winning the characters tournaments. The tournament scene has not devolved into everyone infiniting each other or losing really badly (it's not enough if everyone's just barely losing unless using a character with an infinite). Therefore, the infinites are not yet "too broken" and cannot yet be banned. No, the fact that someone with little experience and skill can pick it up and win against someone with more experience and skill does not matter.

7 months and the opposing side is still spouting the same BS I can easily shut down using two single paragraphs.

 

[Aznpkilla]

its cause its not an infinite. you can avoid it. its not possible to avoid an infinite, once its started theres no stopping, you can avoid a falco cg to death, its difficult with some characters, but your life is dependant on the falco predicting your di etc against your di, if he kills you, gj to him and bad job to you, if you avoid it, its his fault. if you get infinited by IC or D3 its not realistic to blame yourself for getting grabbed. grabbing someone is very easy, you cant blame yourself for being grabbed because the noobiest noob can grab a pro in a game, there will not be a way the pro can consistently avoid being grabbed without an infinite, sometimes the noob will get lucky or grow smart and get the grab in. i could teach a noob the D3 infinite quite easily, i know i could because my brother is a noob and i play him sometimes.

So why aren't the Ice Climbers winning tournaments? "Grabbing" somebody is easy when the Ice Climbers have almost no approach and a horrible grab range is easy right? They get one chain grab throughout the match, that's broken right?
Wait....

Competitve games is about competing against someone to prove whos better. If i can teach someone whos never played the game before to get a grab in and do the infinite with D3 quite easily, and that noob now has the potential to beat a pro if he selects a certain character, it does not mean the noob is better. because obviously the pro is a better player. Yuna early on in this thread kept saying "Its not about being the best, its about winning" That phrase is utter BS.

In the end, who wins? So you played more "honorably" and made invisible parameters about things you wouldn't do in your head, then followed them to the letter. You don't get anything for that. If you allow tactics, counter tactics become available and then people counter those tactics. The game moves. It makes for a deeper game. "Best" is a subjective term, is it who wins or who plays with self inflicted guards and is somewhat successful? Players who win most of the time are the best. Infinites aren't winning tournaments, metaknight is. The thing about infinites is even if you know how to do one, you aren't going to win just relying on it. You still have to play smart. The wrong reason to play Ice Climbers is playing them for their infinites.

Does that mean if I sneakily slip some BBQ marinade on your control when your not looking inside a miniscule gap between your GC control stick and the computer chip that controls it, and it screws up your aging GC pad. does that count that i win? and does it mean im better than you? No. it does not. the game would stop because the player can no longer control his character and put up a fight.

One of those involves outside resources to help and debilitate the other character, chain grabbing doesn't. Using outside resources is called "cheating." It's also not respecting someone's property. Be reasonable with your arguments.

the same logic is used for infinites. "OH WAIT NO MAAAN YOU SHOULDNT OF LET HIM PUT THE GRAB ON UR CHARACTER DUDE U GOTTA WATCH OUT HAHAHAHA"

Do supporters of infinites agree with me? i have never been infinited, i am not a crybaby coming here. i agree with the OP of this topic and i disagree with the arguments faced towards him.

The same logic is used for infinites? Last time I checked I could perform them in game with the other player being able to perform at peak, I didn't tamper with his property, and I didn't use outside resources. *Blink* Are the two alike at all? Not REALLY. If infinites were as broken and vile as you make them out to be, and you've compared them to cheating in a **** Dastardley type manner (lol), why aren't they winning tournaments? Why are Snake and Metaknight still winning?

No Johns, play smarter and you win no matter what the other person has.

 

[Negi-Kun]

Wobbling = ban. Falco chain= ban; too long and does much damage. D3 chain= no ban; short, doesn't do much damage.

 

[Doggalina]

How is Falco's CG a ban for too much damage? It only works at low percents.

I say allow infinites, and this is coming from somebody who regularly plays an ICs who can Wobble (in Melee, of course)

EDIT:

Unless everyone chose DDD and infinited, it's not going to get banned.

If everybody chose DDD, there wouldn't be any infinites (aside from wall infinites)

 

[Grunt]

Since we have refuted every possible point in this thread as to why they shouldn't be banned, and people are too lazy to read them, then i will just say this.

1. IC CG is not broken. they are not dominating tournaments.
2. you can avoid getting grabbed easily as well as splitting up the IC.
3. IC CG is a completely fair test of skill, because if you get grabbed, and let the IC de-synch, without being separated, then you're not very good in the first place.
4. If it's so good, why aren't all the pros picking up IC? oh yeah, because IT'S EASY TO AVOID!

EDIT: If everybody chose DDD, there wouldn't be any infinites (aside from wall infinites)

BORING

 

[Zankoku]

Read. If everybody chose Dedede, matchups against those four wouldn't exist.

 

[cutter]

How is Falco's CG a ban for too much damage? It only works at low percents.

I say allow infinites, and this is coming from somebody who regularly plays an ICs who can Wobble (in Melee, of course)

EDIT: If everybody chose DDD, there wouldn't be any infinites (aside from wall infinites)

DDD can infinite another DDD if he throws him offstage.

 

[Yuna]

DDD can infinite another DDD if he throws him offstage.

How did you ever get into debaters? That was awful, even as a joke as it makes no sense.

 

[Scala]

How did you ever get into debaters? That was awful, even as a joke as it makes no sense.

DDD has some wierd glitchy thing that if he downthrows another DDD (and a few other characters I think) and grabs again, the person getting throwed kinda glitches back into the thrower's grab and it's a standing infinite.

 

[Finns7]

I wonder if I was a DDD/IC mainer would I use them.

 

[Matador]

I wonder if I was a DDD/IC mainer would I use them.

Wonder silently...let the thread die. Seriously, there's nothing left to argue.

 

[Pikaville]

Infinites may give certain characters advantages,but it doesn't nescessarily mean they should be eliminated from play.

Ruling out something a charcters can do to another character is taking it way to far as far as im concerned.May be if 1 character could chaingrab and no others could then may be.

Just learn to not let your self get grabbed so easy etc.......

HA HA! some people really want this thread to die dont they?