JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i think like 80+ other people have already said all that, and more, but some people still ***** about infinite/CG losses anyway. that is why this thread has not died yet.
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Infinites: Why, exactly, are they allowed?
- Thread starter Patsie
- Start date
- Status
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
this thread will die when the nub(youknowwhaters'08)posters from texas stop trying to ban infinites and LERN2NOTGETHIT/GRABBED
also,i notice the shift in power,most old members want to allow inf.CGs,o.o
also,i notice the shift in power,most old members want to allow inf.CGs,o.o
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
im sure its not all the 08's, just a certain few who don't understand the phrase:
"don't get grabbed....."
oh and your quote is priceless. but i think it should be Marth not MK, you know the who CG thing....... >__>
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
Metaknight has more R4pe power than marth,o.o thts my fix'd version
its a 90% 08'er,99% of those 'you ovbiously dont understand what "dont get grabbed" means and you should quit if its that much of a problem' the other 1% is Texas Smash and scince i second IC im gonna stay away as far as possible from there
its a 90% 08'er,99% of those 'you ovbiously dont understand what "dont get grabbed" means and you should quit if its that much of a problem' the other 1% is Texas Smash and scince i second IC im gonna stay away as far as possible from there
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
naw you should go anyway and watch all the infinite whiners cry as you CG them to oblivion. i can't ever get the CGing right so thats why i only pick the IC's for fun. 
in fact i can't CG well at all with any character who can do it....
in fact i can't CG well at all with any character who can do it....
Semmick
Smash Journeyman
i hate infinite's, there cheap, and they don't prove skill at all, like in melee for example, it could take hours getting a SHFFL'd Nair down, but only a few minutes to get an infinite down
Union of Darkness
Smash Ace
No johns.
10johns
10johns
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
define plox
10scarcasms
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
to anyone else coming in with a statement like this please read the first 10 pages and possibly the most recent 5. so that this kind of post is no longer repeated cause its answer is already in this thread somewhere. oh and it takes much much longer to do the IC's infinite than 5 minutes. you may get the mechanics for it down, but i doubt you could do it w/o really thinking about it.
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
For The Love Of God Just Counterpick!!!!!!!
DEV64
Smash Apprentice
you just bumbed it jack ***(oh **** so did i)
Oracle
Smash Master
I'm from texas, and I don't mind infinites being allowed -_-
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
well thats 1 tX 08'er who doesn't mind them. can this thread die now? i mean even the OP stopped posting in it a long time ago.
Nines~Tempest
Smash Cadet
CP someone who can't get grabbed ^x^
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Nines~Tempest
Smash Cadet
No Ban MK he's cheap and breaks brawl.Like Metaknight?
bet you didn't see that one comming.
*Points accusingly at infinite cape* EEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIIL!
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
Just a quick thought, Yuna, If the point of competitive smash is to win, why is anything banned?
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
I'm okay with infinites and chaingrabs...Let's say Captain Falcon somehow develpos an infinite that works on every character (even ICs), on any stage, and the infinite is EXTREMELY easy to pull off. End of Brawl tournaments, no?xXSciophobiaXx said:
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
well... according to Yuna, no its not, the point is to win, and if you can't win with a different character, everyone will be captain falcon.
Let's say Captain Falcon somehow develpos an infinite that works on every character (even ICs), on any stage, and the infinite is EXTREMELY easy to pull off. End of Brawl tournaments, no?
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
Pretty sure my exmaple fits what Yuna said on the first page.Yuna said:
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
Yes.... of course its the players choice on who to choose. But you said if that captain falcon tactic was discovered, you said it would end tournaments. I simply think that directly contradicts what Yuna said for competitive smashers, if the point of competitive smash is truly to win, that won't matter, and there won't be a banned stage or tactic. Why wouldn't you choose the best character, and the cheapest stage so that you can infinite somebody?
I believe that, despite what Yuna said, I bet... uhh... He/She (unsure of gender! sorry Yuna!) plays brawl because it truly is fun, and you play to compete to see who is better, and that is fun. I don't anyone would play brawl (competitively) if as soon as captain falcon got someone in a grab it automatically resulted in a loss of a life, if the captain falcon player did the correct input of buttons.
Please tell me if im wrong, I'd like to learn more! (I'm not here to flame XD)
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
Think tournament creators also want their tourney to be as fair as possible where the infinites that people perform actually take skill. Why ban 3D's Dthrow wall infinite if there's no wall? And Yuna is a guy.
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
But... according to Yuna, if he represents the average competitive smasher, fair isn't taken into consideration, its all about winning. It doesn't matter if captain falcon can beat every other character with one simple and very easy tactic, (unfair) and someone like yoshi (who according to most is garbage) is nearly impossible to win with, It doesn't seem like it should matter, if its truly about playing to win, there would be no bans whatsoever. And if it is only to win as well, skill is obsolete, if you find a very easy way to win, employ that, and exploit it to its maximum.
I do not believe this is how competitive smasher truly feel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Sx4g2GFRg&feature=related Gimpyfish said at 10:10 that competitive smasher do play the game for fun. Im not going to directly quote his words. So I believe Yuna was probibally exagerating.
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
Let's just agree on that some infinites need to be banned and Brawl is unbalanced.
And Yuna seems a little pessimistic compared to Gimpyfish and the other guys in the vid. We can't really change tourney rules, so the best thing for us to do is adapt, I guess
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
Would you then agree that competitive brawl is not completely about winning? I would definately say brawl is imbalanced, and there are levels, and infinites that should be banned. I would say the primary reason behind these bans is "fun" or to level the playing ground for all players/characters.Let's just agree on that some infinites need to be banned and Brawl is unbalanced.
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
Smiley Face approves of this post. I've always thought of tournaments as a blend of competitiveness and fun. The Smash community is a pretty close one and most competitive smashers cheer each other on, joke with each other, etc. Gaming tournaments can't be ALL about winning. If tourney players weren't having fun, I doubt so many people would participate at tourneys.
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
A person who is actually intellegent, makes sense and isn't a jerk! A truly rare discovery!
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
the point is to win at tournaments though. oh sure if you can have fun while your there too thats perfectly fine, and hopefully expected, but that prize money is calling..........
fredymartinez1
Smash Journeyman
u can still dodge grabs and yet attack be more defensive....... jump ...... chain grabs r useless if ur good enough to dodge....
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
you're all forgeting one thing, the only reason anyone plays brawl seriously is for money..not for fun or "to win" as yous may say..its about money ;P
Smash64 and Melee where for fun
Smash64 and Melee where for fun
xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
I would agree, that there are people that go out there for the money, but I honestly don't think thats all they care about, they wouldn't go out to a tournament for money, if say... a character could 0-death combo you everytime with relative ease, I believe that the competitors enjoy having an close-to-even playing field for a bunch of characters, I certainly wouldn't go to a tournament where everyone was iceclimbers and all they did was 0-death combo you. Even if i was the best ice climbers player in the world and I could do a 0-death combo I wouldn't do it, because thats a game where all individuality is lost, everyone plays ice climbers and there is one tactic that trumps all. Like rock paper scissors, but without rock and paper.you're all forgeting one thing, the only reason anyone plays brawl seriously is for money..not for fun or "to win" as yous may say..its about money ;P
Smash64 and Melee where for fun
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
but the IC's grab range sucks and the theres alot more to it that just grabbing, Nana must be desynced. kill Nana no more IC CG. besides w/o it the IC arent even that special, it essential to their meta game to be able to do it. thats why you can just counter pick.
Dantarion
Smash Champion
Yeah, I think just like melee, the Ice climbers infinate will NOT ruin brawl.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
it hasn't so far. so it probably won't. after all DDD can do the same thing but w/ better grab range and no need for desync. :/
Doggalina
Smash Lord
NO. An infinite WOULD be banned without a doubt if it caused the game to turn into a game of one character trying to do one thing and win. However, this is NOT THE CASE. Look at Melee's Wobbles and my point is proven.
Foxy
Smash Master
Why the hell is this thread still alive? I remember Mookierah winning it way back in the first 10 pages, like months ago.
Anyways, regarding bans:
The goal of a ban is to remove strategies, characters, items, or situations that reduce competitions to only that and possibly a few other options. Why? Because as much as playing to win means utilizing everything at your disposal, regardless of fairness, any good competitive game NEEDS to retain some kind of skill gap.
Simply put, the more consistently a more skilled and knowledgeable player wins over a lesser one, the better. In Melee, the top players in the country consistently place at the top, with Mew2King still winning most of his tourneys. That's an example of a good competitive game.
If there's things or tactics that reduce the game to only that element in competition, then worse players will have a higher probability of beating better ones due to lack of variety and learning curve. So those things or tactics warrant a ban.
However, banning is something that competitive communities AVOID AT ALL COSTS unless it is absolutely needed, such as I just pointed out. Even if it retracts from play a great deal, like the limited viability of characters other than Snake, MK, and D3 among talented players, it still must be kept an option, or else streams of needless banning will ensue.
Competitive play in Brawl has never even come close to being reduced to infinites. So, no ban.
These last two paragraphs are kind of poor and random, I just mentioned that stuff for the hell of it.
[And lets say that some ridiculous infinite was found that could combo a an enemy from zero percent to death, without the user needing to account for DI, without requiring precise timing or inputs, with no need for modifications based on the current situation, and available to even the weakest player. This, in fact, may not even need a ban. With something like this, likely a "soft ban" would appear, where really skilled players have an unwritten rule that the combo is crap and ruins competitive play and they all refuse to use it. In the event that a new player, with no sense of honor, tries to win a tourney with this tactic, he would likely fall flat on his face, destroyed by much better opponents who can avoid the beginning of the fatal combo.
Zero to deaths existed in Melee, in countless shapes and forms, but they were results of very taxing technical play, mindgames, tech chasing, DI prediction, and luck. Yet, if you watch pro matches, they happen very, very often. These aren't even up for ban discussion because they're just evidence of player skill and execution. A lesser case of this is the IC infinite grab combos that so many complain about. It may not be near as hard as zero-to-deathing a pro player in Melee, but it still requires a set-up, difficult timing, and some technical skill.]
Anyways, regarding bans:
The goal of a ban is to remove strategies, characters, items, or situations that reduce competitions to only that and possibly a few other options. Why? Because as much as playing to win means utilizing everything at your disposal, regardless of fairness, any good competitive game NEEDS to retain some kind of skill gap.
Simply put, the more consistently a more skilled and knowledgeable player wins over a lesser one, the better. In Melee, the top players in the country consistently place at the top, with Mew2King still winning most of his tourneys. That's an example of a good competitive game.
If there's things or tactics that reduce the game to only that element in competition, then worse players will have a higher probability of beating better ones due to lack of variety and learning curve. So those things or tactics warrant a ban.
However, banning is something that competitive communities AVOID AT ALL COSTS unless it is absolutely needed, such as I just pointed out. Even if it retracts from play a great deal, like the limited viability of characters other than Snake, MK, and D3 among talented players, it still must be kept an option, or else streams of needless banning will ensue.
Competitive play in Brawl has never even come close to being reduced to infinites. So, no ban.
These last two paragraphs are kind of poor and random, I just mentioned that stuff for the hell of it.
[And lets say that some ridiculous infinite was found that could combo a an enemy from zero percent to death, without the user needing to account for DI, without requiring precise timing or inputs, with no need for modifications based on the current situation, and available to even the weakest player. This, in fact, may not even need a ban. With something like this, likely a "soft ban" would appear, where really skilled players have an unwritten rule that the combo is crap and ruins competitive play and they all refuse to use it. In the event that a new player, with no sense of honor, tries to win a tourney with this tactic, he would likely fall flat on his face, destroyed by much better opponents who can avoid the beginning of the fatal combo.
Zero to deaths existed in Melee, in countless shapes and forms, but they were results of very taxing technical play, mindgames, tech chasing, DI prediction, and luck. Yet, if you watch pro matches, they happen very, very often. These aren't even up for ban discussion because they're just evidence of player skill and execution. A lesser case of this is the IC infinite grab combos that so many complain about. It may not be near as hard as zero-to-deathing a pro player in Melee, but it still requires a set-up, difficult timing, and some technical skill.]
Uck
Smash Journeyman
This entire thread is proof that brawl and there tournament directors are made of fail.
Kirby Gotenks absorbed
Smash Apprentice
Infinities are stupid, they should be banned or something.
The point of the game may be to win, but you're supposed have fun in the process, infinities ruin that and they aren't supposed to be abused to such a huge extent, in my opinion, and I'm sure many other peoples' opinions, infinities are deemed cheap and unfair.
The point of the game may be to win, but you're supposed have fun in the process, infinities ruin that and they aren't supposed to be abused to such a huge extent, in my opinion, and I'm sure many other peoples' opinions, infinities are deemed cheap and unfair.
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