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Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

Heartstring

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Nah we're all talking about last year, the Superbowl is coming up this weekend. Apparently 7% of people in the USA think the Superbowl already happened though because they don't realize that there's a new one every year, and something like 91% of people not in the USA think the same. The other 9% either don't care or watch it thinking it's amateur Rugby with really bad refs.

:248:
i see, well about 35% of that population is rednecks, so theyre too busy maknig childnre with their sister to care for handegg...
 

jamlosingthegame

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Meh don't really care much for Black Ops maps. But my brother sure does, enough to make my mom call me on my cellphone, when all she can do is just go to my room, and tell me that he needs me for something just so he can show me these new maps.
 

Nysyarc

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I don't have Black Ops, it doesn't even look that great tbh. I almost never jump on the bandwagon for big new games, in fact I often purposely avoid hyped-up new games, even if it's one from a series that I've liked in the past.

:248:
 

theeboredone

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Most of my friends complain about Black Ops being worse than MW2. I honestly don't know much about FPS games, so I could care less. But yeah, I rarely jump on big hyped games. There usually has to be something fresh it brings to the table for me to jump on it.

Last big hype game I jumped on was MGS4.

Potential hyped games I thought about, but never jumped on...well, most recent one was DC Online.

Though Uncharted 3...I'm definitely on the bandwagon right now.
 

Ussi

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PINK NAME! Woo!



also, i only got black ops for zombies anyways. Though multiplayer does provide some entertainment for some time. People just abuse some things that really take fun out of the game like ghost and grenade launchers. But its the same thing as items with smash brothers. Competitively they are off. And since I don't play competitive black ops, I might as well use that crap too as they are pretty powerful options in the game to use.
 

Munzy

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Its more balanced in that you dont die as quickly/annoyingly like mw2. Not as much camping and stuff. I can definitely say that the game is much more fun to act like an idiot in because it is a lot less competitive. Looks wise, mw2 is much much nicer, but overall i have more fun screwing around in black ops. Me and tomahawk = <3 hahaha

Overall-
MW2 for serious players
BO for chill gameplay/zombies
 

theeboredone

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PINK NAME! Woo!



also, i only got black ops for zombies anyways. Though multiplayer does provide some entertainment for some time. People just abuse some things that really take fun out of the game like ghost and grenade launchers. But its the same thing as items with smash brothers. Competitively they are off. And since I don't play competitive black ops, I might as well use that crap too as they are pretty powerful options in the game to use.
You paid 60 bucks for a game's feature? smh.
 

Nysyarc

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MW2 for serious players
From my brief experience playing it online on the PS3 back when I first got it (and I was actually really good then, coming out of being addicted to CoD4), it was definitely the worst online experience I've had playing a game ever.

I'd had CoD4 for the 360 and always used to play on Hardcore mode, so when I got high enough rank to try Hardcore in MW2 I joined a match right away. Very first Hardcore game I played I was doing really well, but then randomly got booted from the room after a few minutes, and all my in-game accomplishments and experience and unlocks were deleted by hacks. I knew it was hacks because they also gave me a clan tag that SWF will censor, and that I couldn't remove because my level was hacked back down to 1 so I couldn't customize my clan tag.

That pretty much turned me off of MW2's multiplayer component for good. I realized then that 99% of the players who were tenth prestige level 70 had just hacked to get there.


:248:
 

jamlosingthegame

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LOL Ussi getting all pink now.

I should probably play on Brinstar more because I feel I can do good in it but am paranoid at the same time about going through the stage and stuff. =/ Next bi-weekly I'm not banning any stages.
 

Senliten

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Walk into social chat on AIB for the first time in months, first thing I see is a bunch of testosterone, lame ***, fake sadistic, little kid, pervs...........And to think I thought I was desperate, the idiocy there is finally absurd. That to even say hi to a few people I know there is a chore <_<. Where did evolution go wrong
 

theeboredone

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I find AiB hilarious soley for the fact that kids who don't have a life outside their house try to be friends/flirt with girls. It's even funnier when the girls are actually guys LOL.

And nothing against the girls, but...they aren't exactly up to my standards per say. So it's even funnier when they get compliments about being hot.

Which reminds me...I actually did make a girl account a long time ago. Fooled Kimchi so bad LOL.

And this is for Red, Blue, Fed-Ex, w/e

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296924
 

XLR8TION

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ive never playd CoD...get@me? no seriously how is it?
 

jamlosingthegame

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CoD now? IMO, not as good as it was before. CoD4 was what got me into the series more and MW2 was like the peak of my interest. Black Ops was meh. My brother is the only one who plays it now because there is more zombie fun for him.
 

Nysyarc

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Does anyone know of any good vids of an Ike on Brinstar? I need to start actually learning that stage a bit.
I almost never go to Brinstar by myself unless I'm CP'd there, but my teammate is a Wario main so Brinstar is among our favorite CPs as a team. Ike has plenty of annoying tricks he can pull on Brinstar against many characters. Slopes to Aetherslide on for example, and extended hitboxes on the breakable stuff for punishing dodges; the back end of Usmash is amazing for that.

I love overhanging platforms that you can pratfall through to edge-guard, and Brinstar has one on each side. The acid can sometimes save you if you're getting gimped, so that's a plus. Overall it's not bad for us in a lot of match-ups, similar to Rainbow Cruise in that respect. I basically wouldn't take MK, Wario or anyone who has good stage control there. In my experience it's a decent place to take chain-grabbers or characters with projectiles like DDD and Falco. Only if you're comfortable with it though.


:248:
 

san.

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I do not want to spend my 2000th post talking about CoD.
this part doesn't count

NAIR

Non-fastfall nair and delayed non-fastfall nair are both pretty awesome. The weakness of fast fall nair when spacing is that certain sections have less range and act as a weakspot for a short amount of time, and the part that we want out may not last as long as we want. The longest part of fast-fall nair that we want to hit usually happens when we are still quite a ways above the ground (a tiny bit after we initially fastfall).

non-fastfall nair helps hit opponents where we can't predict where their next immediate position and allows us to move in an area of more general safety. Hitboxes also last longer, and goes underneath and behind us, which is really nice. If we hit someone with the back side, that's combo potential depending on how they DI'd.

If we delay using nair and don't fastfall, we can have a decently long hitbox that covers us even when we land. It gives us more time to respond to other attacks because we did not commit to nair yet. It also gives us similar followup potential to backside nair.

There are definitely times where ff nair, non-fastfall nair, and a delayed nair would be most useful. Experimenting with non-fastfall and fastfall movements will help with timing in being able to iron out blindspots/weakpoints.


TRACTION/Uses of Ike's Internal Characteristics

From the brawl tactical discussion forum, I learned that Ike has one of the top traction levels in the game, which means he's quite slippery. This means that using normal shield is not as effective. Unlike Luigi, though, our traction isn't to the point where it's horrible. It's actually quite good.

1. It's harder to get caught in a platform techchase
I have used quite a few characters, and getting caught in a platform techchase is NOT fun. Most of the time, when I use Ike, if I DI up when hitting a platform, I usually slide off, or simply jump out.

2. Dashing/shield dash
As many of us already naturally do, Ike players tend to dash a lot, even though other characters have turned to walking. Why? Ike sports a very nice initial dash speed for a "slow" character, having an initial dash as fast as Marth and Sonic. This, coupled with Ike's very good close-up game is a godsend. Simply dashing away becomes a viable option most of the time, because the time difference is large enough to respond with something like shield, jab, bair, whatever.

If you mix Ike's low traction with his pretty decent dash speed, one can slide with his dash a pretty fair distance. One could jab Lucario's mid-high percent fsmash that way. Mix this with advanced control like shield DI, jab and bair punishes go from alright to legit.

3. Up-close combat + SDI/More on traction
Ike is capable of winning close quarters combat on just about every character bar MK and grab-centric characters (which are more punish-based). Against characters with jab like snake, sonic, etc, simple DI allows us to slide away and punish with our own farther-reaching jab.

Every jab is SDIable. Ike's and falco's (single jab) are probably the only few that have options against SDIing jab (maybe Luigi, too? Don't care enough). Against falco, we can still DI the single jab and interrupt the grab attempt or attack, yet he can shield, so making sure jab1 hits at its farthest distance guarantees the most safety.

If someone SDI's Ike's jab, we can still jab1 most of the cast if they didn't pop out far enough to even take away their double jump, which is when the pain truly begins if you can successfully predict when they do/don't try to attack, and their escape/DI method as you mix jab1s and jab2s with a little bit of combat walking. If they use their second jump to escape, we have multiple aerials that outrange most characters (most can't double jump again to space) as well as a far reaching dash attack and decent initial dash speed. We also have situational utilts, bairs, grabs, etc that we can use at will.

Just like Mr. Doom, you can SDI other people's attacks and follow up with your superior up-close game (or just get the heck out if you feel like it), probably dishing out just as much damage as they gave you anyways. An example would be SDing a jab away, then jab interrupting their followup, or SDIing behind snake's ftilt or something. QCDI by rotating the control stick is the most effective way to SDI without thinking or preparation time.



Moveset situations

Ike's entire moveset has more uses than we think (bair, tilts, etc)
Ike has many traditional ways of killing, but he has like 1000 read-based killers that aren't even all that unsafe most of the time. Just requires timing and situations must be right to minimize whiff-punishment. Utilizing more of Ike's moveset in general makes it so that we see less fair staling and things like that.

Jab2 is very underused in its own right. It is a very quick option after jab1 to interrupt low-level aerial approaches. It's difficult to grab if the kick hits shield at max distance. We only commit to using jab2 after jab1 if we purposefully decide to do it. Can't tell you how man times I interrupted someone else's move with smart use of jab2. After you get a jab on someone, it shouldn't be autopilot. You must actively observe escape options, attack options that can stop the jab cancels, and have correct knowledge and move understanding in order to act accordingly. Looking at DI and if they used their double jump or not and your surroundings on stage are also important. Jab3 can be used to interrupt, too, although more situational and can be reacted to.

Bair is a very usable move. It's biggest weaknesses consists of small characters, characters who can punish our landing to the ground (so fullhop bair->double jump may be a possible mixup) and the global issue that we need timing to land it, we can't just use it in every situation. Funny thing is is that bair is probably one of our moves we can spam the most, though. RAR bair can definitely be used when reading an aerial approach. I also experienced myself that bair offstage isn't that much less effective than fair offstage (more telegraphed though), and bair is very effective vs characters like Marth and MK when they're in the air. We should be spamming this move more often, especially if we retreat it (especially retreating the RARs).

Keep in mind that we can use bair, fair, non-ff dair, and uair at ledge level and recover with a double jump easily. We have more than enough time to mix up aerials offstage.

Ftilt's biggest weakness is whiffing, of course, but is most effective used near the edge. Angled down ftilt hits most characters hanging from the edge, and is our "projectile" to force opponents hanging on the edge off. If an opponent shields ftilt at the edge, it pushes them to the edge again unless they're super heavy. I believe there is shield poking potential if we fiddle with which directions to angle ftilt.

Eruption is like the easiest air dodge punisher that we have. It gives us sufficient time to charge it up a little bit while they air dodge. It's good vs horrible MKs , too. I find it effective to use eruption in the air, after a fullhop, when the opponent is trying to get back to the stage, against characters with only 1 double jump. I don't use it very often, but the times I do in the situations described above works wonders.

For dair, the quickest thing I can think of for those attack-stick users to avoid getting juggled, use non-fastfall dair. But it's not over yet. You must move away from the opponent while doing this. Opponents can easily try to attack you after the hitbox shrinks after the initial spike hitbox. Ike's aerial speed is pretty decent, not bad enough to have that much of a speed disadvantage when holding one direction. I can't think of too many times dair would work best other than hoping they jump into it. I use it vs MK, just dair above and fall away. Mixing up fastfalls and non-fastfalls also help.

Fair I talk about too much already. Blindspot when landing (especially on fullhop) good to use offstage, etc.

Uair we already use a lot. Some of us like to use it on grounded opponents, too. On snake, I think it shieldpokes if uair hits the top of snake's shield really easily. I don't know, the roflcopter's just useful in many ways. Back side of Uair has better horizontal distance, while the front side has a part of the hitbox that hits more above Ike. It's super **** to uair an opponent that as to recover to the stage after we grab the edge (Marth the most extreme example)

Utilt is a move that we just have to learn to find the right timings for. It beats most attacks, but loses to most airdodges and we don't like to miss. I can't think of many times to throw it out without a setup, because our other moves really cover all that.
 

san.

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I didn't make a super long post in forever so why not now while we're talking about nothing (CoD)
 

san.

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We should be talking about Dark Souls (Demons Souls 2). I want it, but I will wait a few years for it to go down in price. Or.. Ike.
 

theeboredone

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Yeah, the "spiritual" successor to DS. Though I wish they would just call it that.

In any case, reading your post, as far as up-tilt goes...it's a good baiting move IMO. I like to use it either first off the bat, and come with a jab combo next (assuming they block or rush in after the up-tilt). If not that, I actually don't mind spamming up-tilt a few times if my opponent is above me due to its long hitbox. I think a few of you might have seen me do it twice in a row, sometimes three. In any cause, it's a good baiting move.

Edit: I feel like we need a new up and coming Ike. 2008 was Kirk and Silven. 2009 was a mix bag of Me, Mr. Doom, and Red. 2010 was San's year, but you can even include Ryo. 2011....?

SLAPS
 

Teh Brettster

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I actually really enjoy reading your long posts about Ike.

A lot of it reaffirms what I think in my head, but have never seen in words... and a lot of it is stuff that I don't consciously think about.

It's good for us to read advanced points of view on stuff like that.
 

san.

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It's just that good Ikes do a lot of similar things/employ similar tactics, but it's mostly through growing through our own skill. Many things are still pretty much unwritten. Some people will be like "I always do that!" while others will be like "oh, really?" to certain parts. Same thing in high level vids. That's why I like to see really good Ikes with different playstyle than me play.

Ryo can have time for his own year. Rydle? o_O (lol nah maybe in MMs unless he still mixes MK+Ike)
 

theeboredone

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There were some good Ikes from AiB that never went anywhere. Two that come to mind are Edo (who mains Snake now), and Tilin. I think he mains MK now.
 

san.

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Their names were known before, but now they are randoms. Oh well. Not everyone can be like shugo (sonic->falco I believe) unless you da bess.
 

Munzy

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Ive been told that the only reason i can play this game is that my physical memory is better than most peoples physical and normal memories. So to me its all a matter of feeling the game and analyzing patterns unknowingly. I hate it. I read your entire post and i literally probably only understood 10 % of it. I think il ask Roller or ask Ussi to ask him to let you guys see the vids of our local tournament but -_- I suck...none of this makes any sense to me...Im screwed. I have no idea what to do honestly
 

theeboredone

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Memory really doesn't have much to do with success in brawl. Some of the top players aren't exactly uh...I don't think they have a strong memory. It's all about practice, raw talent, bringing that talent out, and match up exp.

Don't worry about not understanding that. I assure you, when I was new, I didn't know jack squat in regards to terms. Heck, it took me a full year of playing brawl to figure out what OoS meant LOL. But yeah, you'll get familiar with the terms through exposure.
 

Munzy

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Its like I can play the game well probably performing some of these techniques. and not knowing what the heck they are. Does that make more sense? So ive been able to do these things through the practice of it (the feel of it) (yes lol its funny) and thats how i play. But the thing is , all of the techniques I dont know and do, are intentional, I just dont know they are specific techniques relevant to the character, theyre just the inputs and things ive been doing since ive been playing. I dont really think youll understand this until I get a chance to play with any of you ....this is frustrating. Please excuse my rant XD
 

theeboredone

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Don't worry about it. I'm kinda like you. I don't pay attention to the language of the game. Out of all the good Ikes, I'm probably the least informed on what works and what doesn't. I go through experience, and knowledge. I'm not going to be reading walls of texts (like that Ike guide). I'd rather watch a video to see if I can emulate it, or just go practice on my own.
 

san.

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What you said makes perfect sense. It's harder to express a lot of nuances in words, when you can simply simplify it all with the words "timing" and "mixups".

I think most people weren't really familiar with Ike's traction if they never read the SWF topic, though (and the topic never went through the ramifications of having certain traction).
 

theeboredone

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Really though, vids are the best way to go. It might not be as "detailed" or "pinpointing", but if you ever have a question about something...we can try and find a vid for it if words don't work.
 

Ussi

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Ike's traction makes me hate Ike dittos so much


Also, Munzy, don't worry about understanding terms.


Also, i'm just gonna copy paste that into the guide under:

"Wise words from the master"
 
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