Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[Arturito_Burrito]

Ussi you should record with a vcr 1st then onto your dvd recorder that way if the volume messes up you can just record it again.

I'm still wondering why PS1 is such a good stage for ZSS though.

 

[Snakeee]

Thanks Ussi.

I wouldn't say Pirate Ship puts the match up in his favor, but it might be close to even there. But, you guys are wrong about ZSS not being able to tether there. I haven't played on that stage in a while, but if anything she can quick tether by pressing Up-B/Forward-B twice quickly to avoid the water. This saves her from lava on Brinstar/Norfair too.
Also, ZSS has a good spike opportunity here has well. Make sure you don't get d-smashed at the edge over the water, because a down B attack is even stronger a spike than Ike's D-air.

 

[XACE-K]

Ussi you should record with a vcr 1st then onto your dvd recorder that way if the volume messes up you can just record it again.

I'm still wondering why PS1 is such a good stage for ZSS though.

This is what I found.

Pokemon Stadium 1 - Great size, main part is pretty flat, and almost all obstacles provide great camping opportunites such as forward Bing through the obstacles and D smashing. I see this as ZSS' best all around stage, and it's even better in teams.

Just to note, I found this in a pretty old thread so it may not be good.

Edit: F***ing colors messing up my post.

 

[Snakeee]

That's my thread lol. I updated it not TOO long ago, and it should be pretty accurate.

 

[XACE-K]

That's my thread lol. I updated it not TOO long ago, and it should be pretty accurate.

Oh well than I guess it is right. I just saw the date 3-20 or some early date like that and thought that it wasn't too accurate.

 

[YagamiLight]

I think I can probably write a good piece and have it up by later tomorrow.

Much thanks for the help, Zamus mainers.

 

[Ussi]

ehh >_> Where am i gonna get a VCR from? I'll just put music over it.

 

[Kinzer]

If somebody could clarify for me, isn't it possible to perform the infinite grab on Zamus when the ship has hit the rocks and is on land? Heck, I would be amazed if it would be possible to do the same infinite on the small ship when it's there, isn't the front of that sail tall enough to use as a wall to CG?

 

[Snakeee]

If somebody could clarify for me, isn't it possible to perform the infinite grab on Zamus when the ship has hit the rocks and is on land? Heck, I would be amazed if it would be possible to do the same infinite on the small ship when it's there, isn't the front of that sail tall enough to use as a wall to CG?

I don't think the infinite works on ZSS at all, I think she can down-B out of it if anything.

 

[Ussi]

if you say think that means it needs testing!~ To the wii!! ~must finish homework....drat~

 

[Kinzer]

Drat, one thing she CAN avoid.

Edit: And Ussi has homework on a Sunday?! Blasphemy!!

 

[•Col•]

Drat, one thing she CAN avoid.

Edit: And Ussi has homework on a Sunday?! Blasphemy!!

Well, it may be DUE at 12 am... =P

That's when mine is usually due... I just got done a few minutes ago... xD

Anyway... I REALLY don't think ZSS can get out of Ike's infinite... (We are talking about his forward throw against a wall, right?) I don't think her Down B is nearly fast enough...

Spoiler

If I'm wrong, I'm a fool xD

 

[Kinzer]

Spoiler

If I'm wrong, I'm a fool xD

Just a fool in love...with Zamus, maybe?

 

[XACE-K]

Just a fool in love...with Zamus, maybe?

You're obsessed with Zamus aren't you? >_>

Spoiler

Kinzer's still a perv.

 

[Kinzer]

Man, you guys are no fun, I should go to the Sonic boards and spam Steak.

 

[XACE-K]

Man, you guys are no fun, I should go to the Sonic boards and spam Steak.

Because we are mature. We are not like you, fantasizing about hawt female video game characters.

Spoiler

*insert perverted things about Zero Suit Samus here*

 

[guild525]

Because we are mature. We are not like you, fantasizing about video game characters.

Spoiler

*insert perverted things about Zero Suit Samus here*

*Glares at avatar*

Too bad you didn't specify in which way he was fantasizing :/..

 

[XACE-K]

*Glares at avatar*

Too bad you didn't specify in which way he was fantasizing :/..

....

*edits previous post*

Magiakrp is awesome btw.

Anyway, when's the review gonna be done?

 

[Kinzer]

....

*edits previous post*

Magiakrp is awesome btw.

Anyway, when's the review gonna be done?

Be patient (because that's necessary in relationships), Light will have this up sometime soon he said, and it will be worth the wait.

 

[guild525]

Um....did this discussion even go more in depth besides ZSS can recover and camp? =/

 

[Kinzer]

Go ahead and look back if you want to, but it's been mentioned about her two ways of recovery and how she can camp somewhat, but it's nothing really major.

 

[guild525]

Go ahead and look back if you want to, but it's been mentioned about her two ways of recovery and how she can camp somewhat, but it's nothing really major.

I did look back, and it didn't discuss how Ike is supposed to approach or how ZSS would react to Ike's approach :/...

 

[Kinzer]

Are you sure, I thought I saw something in there that said how Ike wants to do aerial approaches, if I even recall correctly ZSS has a blindspot in that area

Spoiler

and I don't mean behind her

where Ike can do a well-placed Fair and not have to worry about being hit before, and if that doesn't work you can switch it up into a Nair to Jab combo. As for her reaction,

Spoiler

she probably won't like it I am sure of this

she is either going to eat a good hard hit or shield/spotdodge it, but it still doesn't put her in a good place because Ike works great up close in the ground, and I think ZSS prefes to keep some distance

Spoiler

women, am I right?

Let's see, as for her methods of recovery

Spoiler

from being unconcious

, Tether Recovery is somewhat easy to punish but you don't want to get too crazy with this because you might end up killing yourself

Spoiler

also it's boring

, and I think her Flip Jump recovery isn't really all that great because the only thing she can do from there instantly is stick her leg out which only has hitboxes under her, but for Ike he can use his Fair or a Dair if he is feeling confident enough to go for

Spoiler

a little bit longer

a spike kill. However don't be thrown off her, nothing is stopping her from just waiting out the frames of the flip jump and throwing you off

Spoiler

the bed

with some kind of aerial move such as an uair most likely, or a fair/bair depending on how she's placed and wather this would be better to use than a

Spoiler

birth control pill

Uair.

I'm really sorry, but I'm so horrible it's become second nature to me about how I have to make these lame puns. Maybe I out to just mask them out so you don't need to bother with them.

Edit: There ya go, now I won't have to get into any trouble. Also if by request somebody wants me to go back and mask my previous puns just say so and I'll get right on it.

 

[YagamiLight]

Never fear, I also do independent research/use my own personal experience if some parts are lacking, don't worry about it.

It's nearing completion, just as a progress report.

Next character is either Toonie, Foxie or Bowsie.

 

[•Col•]

Never fear, I also do independent research/use my own personal experience if some parts are lacking, don't worry about it.

It's nearing completion, just as a progress report.

Next character is either Toonie, Foxie or Bowsie.

I'm feelin like Fox... Then again, it's just cuz I have a lot of experience with the matchup...

So yeah, w/e.... =]

 

[Kinzer]

I'm feelin like Fox... Then again, it's just cuz I have a lot of experience with the matchup...

So yeah, w/e.... =]

I rarely see any good wifi Foxes out there, but then again people keep saying "it's wifi" and how it "screws them up" even with there is no freaking lag, so of course I won't see much variety.

 

[XACE-K]

Next character is Boozer.

You heard it right, Bowser's our next character. Let's move on. :D

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Theres always lag kinzer. You can't get rid of it because thats how math works.

 

[Kinzer]

Yeah I'm very well aware Burrito, that unless it's done in the same Wii console/room/etc., no matter how close you could be, even if it's just in Nano-seconds there will always be some type of input lag just because it has to synchronize the same screen. *sigh, and I still think brawl was the best game Nintendo came up with, Sakurai spent too much time making MK broken and making the SSE cinematic.*

 

[YagamiLight]

Well, managed to get the ZSS thing done. For the low amount of conversation we had on her, I still managed to get a fairly decent sized article up.

I decided I like old Link more than Toon Link, so let's just go with that.

 

[HeroMystic]

Link has a bunch of playstyles... this'll be interesting.

I'll give my input depending on what everyone else says.

 

[Ussi]

Link can come of the ledge and zair back onto it pretty fast so getting ledge hogged is easy once Link gets on the ledge. But QD works if he's waiting on the ledge just go on the stage ;o

Link has 3 projectiles, arrows are jab cancelable, boomerang can give you a sliding forward smash, or pull you into Link's Up B, and bombs are just bombs and blow up in your face.

Biggest thing to watch out for is Link's jab canceling since it's pretty lethal. You gotta tech everything to avoid it. A simple boomerang at close range will put you in a lot of damage.

Link's kill moves are 2nd slash fsmash, dair, and Up B. Fresh dsmash kills at 125%ish and ftilt at like 140%ish I believe his fair is pretty strong but i think it's also used for combos instead.

Do not shield a fsmash at the edge, you will get hit by the 2nd slash since you slide off the stage/platform.

Link's recovery is the worst non tether recovery (In my opinion), take advantage of that.

Link's Utilt can chain itself till 30%

Watch Linkaggedon to understand what Link can do. It's pretty old so Link probably has some new tricks than the ones shown here. Also the effects are great ;o

All I'll say for now

 

[Kinzer]

That's a pretty good write up Light, you never cease to amuse me with your (technically it's multiple peoples') two cents on the opponent.

As for Link, right now is not really a good time, I'll see what I think of him in the afternoon, however just because the guy is like (what was it again?) 2nd to bottom from the tier list he is not to be underestimated (although if you play Ike you should already know this).

 

[•Col•]

Eh... I'll say some stuff right now, and some stuff later... I used to main Link when Brawl first came out...

First off, don't go Norfair. It's Link's best stage EVAR. Lylat Cruise sucks for him... (Only time I've ever got a pity smash... T__T) He gets caught under the stage easily, and the tilting stops a lot of his projectile spamming.

Maybe Castle Siege too... The second part stops his projectiles (statues) and the third part can gimp him like Lylat Cruise.

Anyway, Link has a lot of little tricks up his sleeves...

Ack, I have to go to class now... xD I'll be back in a bit to say more...

 

[XACE-K]

For me, Ike vs Link is a neutral match-up for me. Probably because of the Link's I've faced but I don't know the true ratio for it. I can't think of much stuff right now so I'll just edit this post later. If you want one piece of advice.

- When recovering, you can easily spike him if he uses his Up-B. If he's closer to the ledge, he'll most likely use the Clawshot to grab on. Bomb recovering isn't as useful as it was in Melee. (Do Link mains even use it anymore?)

 

[Kinzer]

Any resourceful Link should do it I think, his recovery is bad enough as is but yeah... good Links would do anything just to not die. Although I have to admit I've never seen it done, they always just toss the bomb towards the stage hoping it hits you, but I always just Powershield them off the stage.

 

[HeroMystic]

(Do Link mains even use it anymore?)

Yes. Bomb Jumping still exist, granted it's not as used, but if you happen to knock Link off the stage while he was holding a bomb, he'll undoubtedbly use a Bomb Jump.

 

[•Col•]

Yeah, the only way they can do it is if they already were holding it whenever they get knocked off the stage.... They can't take one out while they are already off the stage, so really, don't worry about it... xD

Anyway, I forgot that I had a test today... So I'm gonna study now. I'll post the rest of my thoughts on the matchup later tonight... =P

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Any resourceful Link should do it I think, his recovery is bad enough as is but yeah... good Links would do anything just to not die. Although I have to admit I've never seen it done, they always just toss the bomb towards the stage hoping it hits you, but I always just Powershield them off the stage.

Link, when sent out of the stage, can pull out a bomb and throw a rang to halt or disrupt off-stage interception. Also, Links can mix up their recovery with up B or tether. Most important, Link's key to recovery is proper DI. Although given a crappy recovery, with excellent DI skills, Link can survive.

On another note, Link has projectiles, Ike does not. Due to my playstyle, I would usually force Ike to approach through an obstacle course of projectiles. Once in mid-range, Link's z-air (aerial clawshot) can serve as good spacing along with a bomb in hand for combo purposes. Links generally jab cancels into other attacks or a grab. As long as Link spaces himself correctly, and stays away from Ike's sword range, Link should have the advantage in the match. As for edgeguarding, Ike can be gimped by a zair edge guard for his up B and the boomerang esp. the gale effect can also screw up his side B recovery as well. Another thing to keep in mind is that Link has a good pivot boost and pivot land, which also helps Link in spacing esp. after a retreating zair, and he can follow up with more projectiles. I'm just giving you the advantages Link would have against Ike, so it's not like Link ***** Ike or anything like that. I'm just saying Link should avoid close combat with Ike. Want you Ike mainers want in this matchup is close-range fighting, so you should play a pressure game against Link. Stay on him at all times, like white on rice.

 

[Kinzer]

Don't worry, I know my characters, I know Link has a Tether and I repeat "any resourceful link will use anything in his arsenal to survive" this includes the Gale Boomerang, but again I've never seen any link do that to this day; maybe I've been getting terrabad Links.

Edit: Although with the tether I believe it's more dangerous for Link because of that gets Aetherspiked they're dead.

Further Edit: Not to mention Ike's recovery isn't all that impressive itself either, we all know that we need to DI up and towards the stage if we want to live ourselves.