Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee

[Sieguest]

My two cents on Game and Watch....
He has that dadgum turtle....>___>. GandW can space like another mother with that move, and if he utilizes it right he can remain safe. Also if he separates us, then Nana is screwed, especially if she runs into a Fsmash (which she's bound to do). He kills early and with the ICs lightweight, we'll probably die pretty early if we're not careful.

ICs can easily outcamp him and that's a plus...

I haven't played a good GandW so I'm pretty limited to what I think....
(then again, I probably just pointed out the obvious.... fail corner here I come)

 

[r3d d09]

I'm going to be meep and say pivot grab, if done properly, you can grab out of nearly everything, or grab and take damage, but it not causing you to move from the hit. like, his downsmash. if you pivot grab, you could get hit, but also still grab him.

If i feel like doing some work tonight, i'm going to a smash fest tonight, i could record some short things. but don't count on it.

on the turtle. count the hits as you shield. it helps a lot. 5 hits they might follow with a downsmash, sidestep and grab.

 

[00-Zero]

Yeah, I usually get through the turtle with a pivot grab. Though, I'm pretty sure a grounded blizzard beats it, but you need to hit him with it before that turtle touches you. Not much more I can say about getting around it. Maybe someone else knows how to get past it better.
Also something to remember, tech away from his down throw as soon as you hit the ground. You'll be eating an f-smash, or d-smash (or judgment hammer iIrc,) if you don't.

 

[Sieguest]

Yeah, I usually get through the turtle with a pivot grab. Though, I'm pretty sure a grounded blizzard beats it, but you need to hit him with it before that turtle touches you. Not much more I can say about getting around it. Maybe someone else knows how to get past it better.
Also something to remember, tech away from his down throw as soon as you hit the ground. You'll be eating an f-smash, or d-smash (or judgment hammer iIrc,) if you don't.

He can always tech chase with a usmash if you do tech, but good point.

 

[00-Zero]

Good point, but that requires him guessing which way I tech roll. I understand that it's not that difficult, but that doesn't mean your chances of avoiding it are completely nullified.

Edit so I don't have to double post: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244633

Export thread of G&W vs. IC by G&W boards

 

[Diddyknight]

Hit and Run. Punish Key as much as you can. Whenever he turtles, try to shield up and retreat/possibly nair OoS. I'll edit this when i get home...

 

[r3d d09]

reverse blizzards are nice in this matchup. just dont be dumb and feed his bucket >.>

 

[00-Zero]

Even if you do, it's not even a powerful bucket once it's full. The way I see it, he has his bucket out, I can more than likely grab him before he puts it away.

 

[r3d d09]

aka mindgames

 

[TheStig]

I think that this matchup is even. Uair is really good against key. I just like to weave in out and time grabs when g&w is still lagging from his moves like fair. They will try to spam bair which can be annoying, and don't get into the habit of running into it.

 

[r3d d09]

a good g&w will space the fair so you can't punish him for it. Uair is basically an exchange move. a hit for a hit.

 

[Sieguest]

a good g&w will space the fair so you can't punish him for it. Uair is basically an exchange move. a hit for a hit.

I thought IC Uair beat GandW's dair =O.

 

[r3d d09]

Maybe it does, but i remember it being an exchange. maybe i'm wrong. haha. I will test it right now

 

[Sieguest]

i'm pretty sure our uair doesn't beat out lucario's dair (have you SEEN the hitbox on that? ridiculous!). but, yeah, we just bearly outreach G&W's dair, which is enough to stop his key aerial approaches if necessary (as in his actual key, not primary. the word key).

Pulled from QandA.

 

[r3d d09]

I knew we talked about it before. ha. thanks guest.

 

[Diddyknight]

IC Uair does take priority over Key

 

[r3d d09]

I'd like to thank my sponsors. Park City Television. <3

 

[DeliciousDave]

yes your up air does goes right through our key, but we know it does we wont just keep doing the key to get back to the stage , and we can slow fall it, oh and after any aerial we do we will be spamming that up-b to get out of grab ranges

 

[r3d d09]

That didnt stop you from getting grabbed from Sinz... lul IC's or marth. you get punished hard.

 

[sauc3]

I find approaching with powershield to roll in this match up makes it easy to get through bair spam. If GaW doesn't mix up their DI they could Di right into your hands.

Also U-Air does have priority over dair, and GaW players forget this all the time, and you can kill them with u-air -> u-air -> up b (which also has priorty over key, and kills him at like 70)

Do not squal hammer onto the map a lot in this matchup, as GaW's up smash ***** you hard, and kills nana at low percentages uncharged.

Do NOT try and shieldgrab any of his smashes (especially dsmash) cuz they have little to no cool down time and they can just dsmash right after before you get the grab.

De-Sycnh blizzards are great to force them to approach from above, where you can either uair and beat him, or pivot grab the key.

Whenever they up-b, ALWAYS follow them with up air, their options are limited up there.

Don't try and camp him, as he can just run up and RAR a turtle. And once he seperates you two in this match-up, the results can be deadly.

His grabs are basically useless cuz they're slow and don't deal damage as they occur, so do anything really.

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe you can ftilt through turtle, and dash attack trades with it, these are options but I'd stick with powershield to roll. (this really works!)

 

[r3d d09]

I always love seeing posts from you sauc3. very good stuff.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I find approaching with powershield to roll in this match up makes it easy to get through bair spam. If GaW doesn't mix up their DI they could Di right into your hands.

Also U-Air does have priority over dair, and GaW players forget this all the time, and you can kill them with u-air -> u-air -> up b (which also has priorty over key, and kills him at like 70)

Do not squal hammer onto the map a lot in this matchup, as GaW's up smash ***** you hard, and kills nana at low percentages uncharged.

Do NOT try and shieldgrab any of his smashes (especially dsmash) cuz they have little to no cool down time and they can just dsmash right after before you get the grab.

De-Sycnh blizzards are great to force them to approach from above, where you can either uair and beat him, or pivot grab the key.

Whenever they up-b, ALWAYS follow them with up air, their options are limited up there.

Don't try and camp him, as he can just run up and RAR a turtle. And once he seperates you two in this match-up, the results can be deadly.

His grabs are basically useless cuz they're slow and don't deal damage as they occur, so do anything really.

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe you can ftilt through turtle, and dash attack trades with it, these are options but I'd stick with powershield to roll. (this really works!)

these are all really good points. i'll use them the next time i have to face a G&W.

 

[raidos]

Great points about gnw. Only thing I have to add is I think you have to hit the side of the key when gnw dairs cause the key itself can go through our up-air. Please correct me if Im mistaken cause on wifi gnw usually go through my up airs cause i cant space properly .

 

[sauc3]

Great points about gnw. Only thing I have to add is I think you have to hit the side of the key when gnw dairs cause the key itself can go through our up-air. Please correct me if Im mistaken cause on wifi gnw usually go through my up airs cause i cant space properly .

If the up-air is already out before they connect, it will out prioritize the key.
If they're put out at the same time, I guess they trade if you connect with the middle (this never really happened to me though, so I wouldn't worry about it).

I'm thinking that probably happens more often on wifi, cuz of teh lag.

Also don't try and dair in this match-up, gaw's fish bowl ***** it, and if they up-air it leaves you vulnerable.

 

[raidos]

Oh ok, you know we have no gnw in our scene so it's hard for me to know outside wifi xD.

 

[r3d d09]

we should really pick the MU thread back up.

 

[JustNoOne]

Oh ok, you know we have no gnw in our scene so it's hard for me to know outside wifi xD.

Yeah that's true... after Cyan left it's all like... no good Game and Watches...


But back to the matchup, we could also Fsmash through the turtle, also what? Dash attack trading with GnW's turtle? I'm testing it out right now and it ain't working, Fsmash goes through the turtle but not dash attack... Even when the turtle is on the ground the hitbox is still there... causing them to get hit.

 

[sauc3]

Yeah that's true... after Cyan left it's all like... no good Game and Watches...


But back to the matchup, we could also Fsmash through the turtle, also what? Dash attack trading with GnW's turtle? I'm testing it out right now and it ain't working, Fsmash goes through the turtle but not dash attack... Even when the turtle is on the ground the hitbox is still there... causing them to get hit.

early turtle,

wait for em to land then run in with dash attack. should work, its not really reliable lol, but a mix up non the less.

 

[JustNoOne]

So hit them early when they hold out their turtle? The turtle just goes through us; dash attacking them when they end their Bair is pretty risky but yeah it does work if the timing is right...

I would just wait for their Bair and blizzard them in the face, or just run in and grab if they were ending their turtle if I space myself close to them, Fsmash also outranges his turtle when he lands so there's a free hit right there, Ftilt works too.. I'm not sure about if Dtilt can outrange the Bair as it lands but it seems somewhat plausible.

But yeah... not much we can do about the Bair but space properly. (And powersheild)

 

[ch33s3]

Blizzard camp. Hard. When you're done blizzard camping, blizzard camp some more. Uair his key, then Blizzard camp more. GW will slip up eventually. Or you can learn to powershield hits 1-3 of the turtle and grab it. Either way. Matchup's in our favor, slightly.

EDIT: If GW is dumb enough to pull his bucket, run past and pivot grab him for it.

 

[JustNoOne]

The only thing I'm worried about is Game and Watch bucketing out Blizzard so he basically gets a full bucket for like... 1-some random number%.. which basically blows =.=

 

[raidos]

I don't think u want to blizzard camp, when he can bucket our blizzard and then use it against us. I'm pretty sure it goes through the blizzard or at least trades with it. xD

It defiantly helps when used correctly! Jus mix it up!

 

[JustNoOne]

Since Blizzard only interacts with hurtboxes... it's possible for a Game and Watch to turtle through our blizzard... so really we shouldn't be shouldn't be spamming blizzard like crazy, but rather using it wisely... more ice blocks would be better desycned than blizzard from far away, just blizzard when he's close that Game and Watch won't likely hit us out of our blizzards.

And his smashes are gay as well... >.>

 

[Prawn]

ALRIGHT SO.

Once I finish my government homework I will be posting my write-ups on DK and GaW and changing characters(they are done in written form LOL).

You may now make quick closing remarks OR talk about what character to do next

 

[JustNoOne]

I say we discuss on the matchup of ICs vs Ganondorf. This matchup is where I have huge problems with.




If not, I would like to discuss about the little rodent as we know as Pikachu.

 

[Bnzaaa]

Game and Watch's bucket isn't that strong if he's catching Blizzards. It also puts him at risk for getting grabbed. I'm pretty sure Game and Watch doesn't want to be a stock behind, just so he gains a move that won't kill until above 100+. Also he loses his ability to bucket break.

Also Game and Watch has trouble landing smashes if he's the one approaching. Force him to approach so you can read him better.

 

[DZhou]

Discuss

 

[FrozenHobo]

so, bnzaaa, we camp? thats new
marth nxt.

 

[Prawn]

alright i downed a LOT of scotch but i manged to write something for DK, please tell me if its alright, i will work on GaW as soon as i can kthx lol

edit: also i know the format is funky, i like stuff thats to the point. lemme know if you likey

 

[00-Zero]

marth nxt.

I agree with this. SpikerZex will be the main competition at my next tourney, so I'd like to take notice of all the things I should look out for in the ICvMarth match up.