I need help with ________ matchup!

[pillsbury552]

What if you always get hit with only the tip so you can't really DI out of it? All I notice is the person I play uses it when I have really high damage, so I know when it's coming and I can dodge it most of the time but sometimes I just run into it. So I'll help myself and say watch were I'm going and dodge when I can.

 

[Oh Snap]

You can try to use the Love Jump? ( I forget what it's called) to escape ZZS' dsmash.

 

[Oh Snap]

Any suggestions for Pit? Any Shiek/Zelda advice would be nice.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Any suggestions for Pit? Any Shiek/Zelda advice would be nice.

I usually use Zelda, I'll be happy to trade Din's for a Paulatena arrow, considering his arrows are faster than Din's, always angle towards the ground, so if you get hit, Din's will follow up and explode in his face, watch out for Bair, it's a very good kill move if sweetspoted, when you're off stage he'll try to WoP you, hurry to the ground :o
But most of your attacks outrange or outprioritaze him, of course don't subestimate him.
If he gets hit while using Wing of Icarus, he'll lose all of his jumps, and remember, he cannot meteor cancel, sweetspot your spike when he has low damage, he'll die
Also DI back to get out of Angel Ring and his Jab, he may use D-smash out of his shield, so watch out for that to, and reflect his arrows back at him, i don't use Sheik that often, so i can't really give any advice here ^^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda advice is pretty solid there... the most important thing in the matchup is to know YOUR range vs HIS range since his isn't bad, but yours is better.

As for shiek... shiek has a LOT more trouble due to pit outranging an outprioritizing him... but, you know, shiek has a MUCH MUCH easier time gimping Wings of Iccarus and isn't as useless while airborne... (remember to never go airborne with Zelda if you don't have to in this matchup.) But, for all that, you're attacks DO come out quicker as shiek... so, once you decide to move in, stay there as long as you can by applying pressure.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Here's my question :
How do i fight a GOOD ROB ;_;
They're so annoying, especially because he has two projectiles, and a Godly spot dodge and the broken D-smash, and the ROB i play against, loves to do that ;_;
And how do i DI out of his D-smash :o

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I play, again, as Sheik, then Zelda.

Shiek can really get inside of him quite easily... dash attack will grab the disc if he throuws it and lasers are easy to spot dodge.... then, just combo him 'till you're satisfied with his damage and change to Zelda as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Din's his recovery

Nayru's his projectiles

Stay out of the air

Stay out of Dsamsh range unless you're gonna Dsamsh yourself.


any more advice? he's kinda hard if you play straight Zelda on the account of his weight and how hard it'll be for you to KO with move decay

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

grah... don't want to double post but this is way too different to just tack onto my last post.

G&W... I played against one for hours tonight. I actually won most of the matches. Anyway... BEST results were produced by:

-Start as shiek... the ftilt can wrack up at least a LITTLE damage since it can trap him for a few hits at really low damages.
-if g&W connects with a Utilt... he can combo shiek from 0-40 pretty easily... so avoid that

- G&W is all about poking.... needle him if he keeps trying that... it's not much, but it's free damage and it forces him closer.

-chase him when he's off balance... you're speed's you're biggest asset here... gotta get all the free damage you can.

-I turn to Zelda the first chance I get... I try to make chances after about 70% damage on G&W

-As Zelda I spam Dsmash and NL if he's close and abuse all the range advantage I have otherwise.

- DO NOT go airborn.... only exception is that the UAir is pretty solid still, so long as you can predict the key.

- I did INCREDIBLY well on luigi's mansion and Battlefield, all the platforms lessened the amount of time spent airborn and G&W's ability to punish your landings. Also... I platform chased rather well with shiek and attacked through the platforms with Zelda.

-Lylat and Delfino were just rough... actuallly I was ****** on delfino... and then missed the stage twice because it decided it would be the perfect time to start moving while I was mid teleport.

 

[lime_backwards]

I have a question that has been burning within for about two weeks now.

When Zelda is at about 55%, and Luigi is going for the jab to Up-B combo (which is a for sure kill, *sugh*) is it possible to Smash DI out of it by either going away from Luigi, up, or down to shield?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I have a question that has been burning within for about two weeks now.

When Zelda is at about 55%, and Luigi is going for the jab to Up-B combo (which is a for sure kill, *sugh*) is it possible to Smash DI out of it by either going away from Luigi, up, or down to shield?

I didn't even know he could DO that... well... if it's at a specific damage only, you could play uper defensive or switch to shiek at said damage I guess.

 

[lime_backwards]

Luigi kills Shiek at pretty much the same percent as Zelda. Most times I can see it coming, he just has less lag on his attacks. So, he gets through. I'm going to try my hardest to smash DI away next time I fight him.

 

[PolMex23]

Theres no running away. I woulda told you if you could, im honest xD.

You cant DI out of it. I will list you everyone that cant...

Everyone except Mario, Ganon, Snake, Luigi, umm.. DK i guess....thats it. Oh Link....like 7 chars...

 

[-Mars-]

I didn't even know he could DO that... well... if it's at a specific damage only, you could play uper defensive or switch to shiek at said damage I guess.

If i'm correct, I believe all the characters that have the A,A,A combo can cancel the last jab into a smash attack, grab, or tilt...........someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I have a question that has been burning within for about two weeks now.

When Zelda is at about 55%, and Luigi is going for the jab to Up-B combo (which is a for sure kill, *sugh*) is it possible to Smash DI out of it by either going away from Luigi, up, or down to shield?

The only time I've ever been able to survive that is when I hold down+left/right and keep hitting R to airdodge.

Perhaps NL would be best, since it is apparently an instant momentum-halter.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

if you don't go airborne, Dsamsh is also ridonkulously fast.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Okie dokie, I have a slight problem with CG/Spike (possible Footstool) Falcos. I'm fairly certain that you can DI after 2 or 3 throws but I am uncertain. Can you give me some advice about Falco's CG/Spike?

 

[RoyalBlood]

I think you can actually DI after the first o_o
but i can't escape until the second :O
you have to DI in a particular direction but i don't know which one

 

[popsofctown]

@ScaryLB59: for Zelda? Falco can't true-CG Zelda even once, as far as i know. It's not that hard for him to faux-CG though. I use away DI, then airdodge to the ground, or use an aerial to punish (maybe i use aerials to punish only when i'm at higher percents though.)
As a disclaimer on what i said, the Falco i play against isn't super technical (boost grabbing a lot)

I have a question that has been burning within for about two weeks now.

When Zelda is at about 55%, and Luigi is going for the jab to Up-B combo (which is a for sure kill, *sugh*) is it possible to Smash DI out of it by either going away from Luigi, up, or down to shield?

Sorry, but i feel like being technical. You're about to get a technical answer.


I'm pretty sure i know the right answer to this question. I've been using Luigi some recently, he might become my third.

The first jab is the one that is best for the jab->up B combo. So we'll talk about that.

The way smash DI works is that the more hitstun you have, the further you can get. You move a tiny distance in the direction of your input, if you input for that frame is different from the input from last frame. For example, if there were three frames of hitstun

Frame before hit: no DI
Frame 1: Right DI
Frame 2: Up-right DI
Frame 3: Up-right DI

The right DI would send you a little bit right, because you had right DI instead of the no DI of last frame. Then during the second frame, you would go up and right, because up and right is considered distinct from right (as far as i know, and as most people tell it, there are only 8 distinct directions of DI though).
The third frame is the same input as the second frame, so you would get squat.

Now let's say there was exactly 3 frames of hitstun, and i've shown the input for all of them. Your last input was up-right. So your launch angle would get altered by that upright, and your launch speed will be decreased or increased by the up right. If the move was knocking you up right, the DI you gave caused the maximum knockback.

The last frame of DI, which alters the trajectory of your knockback, has its own name, and is very different from Smash DI. Smash DI can only cover a distance that's about an 8th of Jiggs body or something. Launch DI (it's called Launch DI i think. Or maybe just DI) can make huge differences, extending or reducing a trajectory by perhaps a fourth of FD, if it was a strong move.

Anyway, the example was highly unrealistic. A human response to getting hit and having three frames of hitstun would be:

NO DI
NO DI
NO DI

We react very slowly, three frames is only 3/60s of a second or so.

Luigi's Jab is not going to be something you smash DI. I don't know the exact amount of hitstun on the move, but honestly, reacting barely in time for the launch DI you want is going to be impressive enough.

Therefore, the best way to react to a Luigi jab would be to smack and hold the horizontal direction away from Luigi. This is the best launch DI to get you away from his Fire Jump Punch sweetspot.
If Luigi did the jab pretty close to you, and Launch DI away from Luigi won't get you far enough away from Luigi, there's nothing (human) you can do to save yourself.


If he did the jab while extremely extremely close to you, it's probably possible to get a frame or two of smash DI in and end up on the other side of him, but that'd be rare. (you'll probably see it happen at one point in your life though).

If you are really interested in escaping Fire Jump Punch, i would look into the Nayru's Love glitches. There's some invincibility frames in the move, it has odd and sometimes glitchy momentum qualities (especially when done during/after getting hit). I know that you can shoot out of Falco's jab combo with Nayru's Love, it looks really weird and it breaks the jab combo.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd like to see that... maybe you could make a video of love jump combo escapes?

 

[RoguefanAM]

Need help with Metaknight. They've been pwning me lately. They're speed just completely screws me over and so does their high priorty. Either their first hit gets me or I spot dodge and their second one does. Even d-smash, Zelda's fastest smash, doesn't helps too much. Their range usually means I get hit even if I do pull it out. I can't din them, they're just rush grab me or use a nair to cancel it, leaving me open for a second a attack. I can't even rely on shielding. The only reliable attack seems to be u-smash but since I pull it out so often, when it comes time to go in for the kill...I can't KO with it. And f-smash and d-smash are NOT reliable kill moves in this match-up because of Meta's after mentioned speed and range. Utilt comes out too slow and doesn't cover enough range. Most of the time I pull out an f-smash instead of an ftilit so it's that's no good either.

Oh and Shiek get's screwed in this match-up as well.

So...help?

 

[lil cj]

Im having trouble with Snake
I battled a friend that has a really good Snake
and I was having trouble keeping up with all the mortar slides/dash attacks/etc.
And Snake's Jab and Forward tilt jus kept getting me, no matter how much I dodged and sheild.
I won the matches but I still struggled...I had to transform into Sheik a few times to win.
Is there an easier way to handle Snake?

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

Im having trouble with Snake
I battled a friend that has a really good Snake
and I was having trouble keeping up with all the mortar slides/dash attacks/etc.
And Snake's Jab and Forward tilt jus kept getting me, no matter how much I dodged and sheild.
I won the matches but I still struggled...I had to transform into Sheik a few times to win.
Is there an easier way to handle Snake?

Snake can easily be spiked while he's using UpB. Just sweetspot it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I normally find his cyhper gets in the way of that... I go for LKs instead... or just din's him

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

I normally find his cyhper gets in the way of that... I go for LKs instead... or just din's him

That **** cyhper -_-

 

[Lingy]

My friend that uses Snake tends to use up+B to fly way above the stage when he's knocked off it, so there aren't many opportunities for spiking. Din seems to work well. You just have to keep that extra eye out for any planted mine, that's what always gets me.

 

[-Mars-]

The battle against Snake is a spacing battle........basically if you keep your distance then you can win, but if your trying to meet him head on, thats just asking for pain.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

personally... I like busting out a shiek against Snake.... it's not too hard to rack up some major damage on snake... and OMG it's someone with a worse air game than Zelda so he's not to hard to LK once you transform back

 

[Bandit]

This thread is pretty dead, but I am going to revive it because this is the appropriate place for this question.

It has not been discussed in the most recent matchup discussion thread, and I am having trouble with Kirby. Usmash works well when you are under them, and you can clash their fsmash with dtilt, but their bair approach game is very difficult to deal with. In yesterday's tourney, my two losses were both to Kirby's. They were able to combo me a great deal and just be a real pain.

What would be different ways to deal with him? Anyone had success against good kirbys? Let me remind everyone I play in a region that has Chu Dat's Kirby so there are a fair amount of imitators to deal with.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ah. well I don't deal with Chu Dat or his understudies, but I tend not to have problems with kirbies. their combo skills seem wasted on the lightweight and floaty zelda who escapes them so easily. if you have excelent timing you can sneak in a power aerial against the puff while he's airborne, but generally you have to anti-air him. wait for him to overstep his bounds and usmash him, or wait for him to try to land and dash attack him.

Kirby should have an exceptional amount of problems approaching through the wall of range and priority that zelda has. know when he's in your range and don't be afraid to let loose when he is.

 

[-Mars-]

Try mixing in a few jabs to snuff out some aerial approaches.

 

[Bandit]

They are a pain to deal with, but the killing blow (which I didn't think would be a problem) was just really difficult to land. I will be the first to admit my spacing needs work, but it was difficult to land a kill when they are spacing well. They basically stayed at head to chest level throwing aerials which (thanks Marsulas) could be where jabs would work for defense.

I know the dtilt clashes with his fsmash, but if it is mistimed you eat it.

 

[Kataefi]

Spot dodge instead! Then return the pain. Kirby's FSmash is easy to see coming ^^

The matchup I hate is with diddy and olimar... but I'm starting to understand the diddy matchup a lot more now and realising that Zelda can do pretty well. Olimar I have no clue so I just turn Sheik.

 

[-Mars-]

Spot dodge instead! Then return the pain. Kirby's FSmash is easy to see coming ^^

The matchup I hate is with diddy and olimar... but I'm starting to understand the diddy matchup a lot more now and realising that Zelda can do pretty well. Olimar I have no clue so I just turn Sheik.

I think Olimar is one of Zelda's worst matchups and I have completely no answers for him. The most reliable approach I have is to SH nair behind their shield and buffer a dtilt. This still gets me grabbed a lot but it's my most reliable so far.

 

[Bandit]

Olimar has no grab armor so if you can throw out a smash or tilt right before you get grabbed he will get hit. I'm partial to the Dtilt for setting up my other moves so he pulls me in and trips. I still have problems with Olimar, but it does help to know you have an option with those grabs.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

here. I'll ask for help now. toon link and snake. yuck. I hate them. help please.

 

[-Mars-]

Switch to Sheik....enjoy the victory screen.

 

[Villi]

Switch to Sheik....enjoy the victory screen.

Yus. Except for the easy part with Snake. He's a tough cookie.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Switch to Sheik....enjoy the victory screen.

okay yes. sheik does much better against snake and it really does help me. I just can't finish snake off with sheik so I need zelda. he's tough either way...

and shiek does better against toonie? how?

 

[SinkingHigher]

I find Snake to be sooo much easier with Zelda :/

Sweetspot galore. It's like kicking a wooden plank. Jab, NL, Sweetspots, Smashes, they're all good.

In my defence though my Snake experience is limited. What exactly do you guys seem to think Zelda has so much trouble with?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I find Snake to be sooo much easier with Zelda :/

Sweetspot galore. It's like kicking a wooden plank. Jab, NL, Sweetspots, Smashes, they're all good.

In my defence though my Snake experience is limited. What exactly do you guys seem to think Zelda has so much trouble with?

snake forces the approach and pretty easily punishes zelda's approach. it's simple, but it's true