• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

DippnDots

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
Renth sucks at this game, don't let him fool you. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about either. Mood4Food was ten times better than Renth back in the day :p
 
n0ne

n0ne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Toronto, Ontario
i just played the whole weekend up till today my hands are killing me and i got to record some good ganon shiz will upload later tonight gotta check which are the better fights
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
DippnDots said:
Renth sucks at this game, don't let him fool you. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about either. Mood4Food was ten times better than Renth back in the day :p
Click to expand...
I guess I'm easy to impress. I'm terrible at this game. Seriously, I can't figure out how to beat Fox.
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Renth said:
Soooo lame



to beat fox do not play ganon and if you couldn't tell his post was sarcasm i'm a little hurt
Click to expand...
Lol most def! Cuz Renth was like the main Ganon along with Rockcrock and Chaddd back in the day before Linguini or Kage were even heard of.

I totally remember Fury of Ganon 1 and 2. Those came out about the time I started getting serious about Ganon.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
Renth said:
Soooo lame
Click to expand...
Lol, I can be more lame than that. I always say stupid **** that comes to mind regardless of how corny it sounds haha

A2Z: Against Fox you have to try your absolute hardest not to give him free approaches, which means don't spam aerials unless it's a retreating uair (or fair, but don't do this when you're really close to Fox) or a runaway bair (which you should really only do if you read him approaching, because then you're surrendering stage control for no reason). If you do spam an aerial and you see Fox is late on punish, then you can jab or ftilt to contest his approach (if timed right you'll often beat it). You don't want to spam tilts either, since Fox is fast enough to punish these easily as well.

I was only partially kidding with that lame post I had earlier lol. I said float like a butterfly because you have to keep moving. You'll never bait a good Fox effectively unless you have some moves. It's important to keep him in a constant battle to acquire his preferred spacing for an approach. If you don't keep moving, he can approach whenever and however he likes basically, and use his godly shield pressure to the fullest extent. But, it's better to maintain complete control of Ganon as you're doing this; don't try to be flashy or do anything that you haven't practiced enough for it to be second nature (Ex: go for a waveland, miss, airdodge, get *****).

Although Fox has a lot of options in general, Fox's preferred approach spacing is right at the point where your ftilt will whif (perfect for a Fox dash sh nair to hit as he lands in front of you). If you are at this distance from Fox, you don't want to be there for long. If Fox approaches from this preferred spacing, buffering a roll out of his approach becomes a LOT less safe. Imo it's good to spend most of your time just outside of this distance, so that you're constantly tempting him with an approach opportunity when in reality it's not 100% safe for him (in this case, even if you dont' have an opportunity to punish, you have a much higher chance of escaping unscathed). This keeps him thinking and puts "pressure" on him (Ganon can be very intimidating to play against if he's making smart decisions). Not to say you should never go in close (because there are definitely times when you have to in order to seize opportunities), but at this distance you are generally close enough to punish him when he goes for an unsafe approach or makes a general mistake or tech skill error.

When the time comes that you have an opportunity to approach or get a grab, you have to act immediately and inflict as much damage as possible (sting like a bee). I don't want to make it sound like you have to wait for an opportunity though, because you can definitely create one (ex: waveland and grab when he is 100% sure you're going to aerial his shield).

Techchasing is extremely important against Fox. I don't know if you have any habits, but try not to get brainwashed by any general strategies. Some people say "Fox would be an idiot to techroll towards the edge, he's going to techroll to the center of the stage", or "Teching in place is so easy to punish, good Foxes don't do that", or even "Teching in place is the safest because it's faster, rolls are too easy to punish". All these statements are garbage. Just keep in mind the reward of covering the option of Fox techrolling toward the edge: the stock. After you punish it once he probably won't be going there again (but hey, he might!), so you can try something else, be it cover the option of techrolling toward the center of the stage, or jump over him and space a bair where he would tech in place, and then if he rolls toward the center, you get a free grab (and even if you guess completely wrong in this scenario and he rolls toward the edge instead, you have stage control and he's one hit away from being offstage!). Above all, don't worry about combos as much as getting Fox offstage where you can gimp him, that is key imo.

This matchup is so deep there is no way anyone could fully explain it, but in a nutshell, you have to have a VERY good offense, and even a better defense. Lol I got off early today and I was bored. If I helped the minds of any Ganon players having trouble Fox recently get back on track, mission accomplished. It's also wise imo to check the techchasing thread and my edgeguarding thread from time to time. Even though we've all seen it several times it usually gives me ideas (Magus's gif's mostly).
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Renth said:
grab her. keep pressure. stay out of her bubble. did i mention grab her? oh ya. you should grab her.

edit: I'll stop trolling your thread emillio.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen Linguini post in here in quite some time.

Wish he'd get back into it, Ganons everywhere look to him as an example! :/
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I've read he wanted to stay only locally after Pound 5.. which kinda sucks, how the hell am I gonna blaze with him again? =( Double Ganon lol.
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Renth said:
to beat fox do not play ganon and if you couldn't tell his post was sarcasm i'm a little hurt
Click to expand...
Ur silly.

Do I have to tell you more than once that you're amazing? Seriously man, can't you take me seriously?

Except for the part where I'm easy to impress. I'm actually very difficult to impress and I have high standards when grading matches. So you should feel good if I say you're amazing, because I mean it.

Also, I'm quite serious that I'll make your life miserable if we Mario ditto irl. =)
[collapse=Stuff about Fox from ACE]
-ACE- said:
A2Z: Against Fox you have to try your absolute hardest not to give him free approaches, which means don't spam aerials unless it's a retreating uair (or fair, but don't do this when you're really close to Fox) or a runaway bair (which you should really only do if you read him approaching, because then you're surrendering stage control for no reason). If you do spam an aerial and you see Fox is late on punish, then you can jab or ftilt to contest his approach (if timed right you'll often beat it). You don't want to spam tilts either, since Fox is fast enough to punish these easily as well.

I was only partially kidding with that lame post I had earlier lol. I said float like a butterfly because you have to keep moving. You'll never bait a good Fox effectively unless you have some moves. It's important to keep him in a constant battle to acquire his preferred spacing for an approach. If you don't keep moving, he can approach whenever and however he likes basically, and use his godly shield pressure to the fullest extent. But, it's better to maintain complete control of Ganon as you're doing this; don't try to be flashy or do anything that you haven't practiced enough for it to be second nature (Ex: go for a waveland, miss, airdodge, get *****).

Although Fox has a lot of options in general, Fox's preferred approach spacing is right at the point where your ftilt will whif (perfect for a Fox dash sh nair to hit as he lands in front of you). If you are at this distance from Fox, you don't want to be there for long. If Fox approaches from this preferred spacing, buffering a roll out of his approach becomes a LOT less safe. Imo it's good to spend most of your time just outside of this distance, so that you're constantly tempting him with an approach opportunity when in reality it's not 100% safe for him (in this case, even if you dont' have an opportunity to punish, you have a much higher chance of escaping unscathed). This keeps him thinking and puts "pressure" on him (Ganon can be very intimidating to play against if he's making smart decisions). Not to say you should never go in close (because there are definitely times when you have to in order to seize opportunities), but at this distance you are generally close enough to punish him when he goes for an unsafe approach or makes a general mistake or tech skill error.

When the time comes that you have an opportunity to approach or get a grab, you have to act immediately and inflict as much damage as possible (sting like a bee). I don't want to make it sound like you have to wait for an opportunity though, because you can definitely create one (ex: waveland and grab when he is 100% sure you're going to aerial his shield).

Techchasing is extremely important against Fox. I don't know if you have any habits, but try not to get brainwashed by any general strategies. Some people say "Fox would be an idiot to techroll towards the edge, he's going to techroll to the center of the stage", or "Teching in place is so easy to punish, good Foxes don't do that", or even "Teching in place is the safest because it's faster, rolls are too easy to punish". All these statements are garbage. Just keep in mind the reward of covering the option of Fox techrolling toward the edge: the stock. After you punish it once he probably won't be going there again (but hey, he might!), so you can try something else, be it cover the option of techrolling toward the center of the stage, or jump over him and space a bair where he would tech in place, and then if he rolls toward the center, you get a free grab (and even if you guess completely wrong in this scenario and he rolls toward the edge instead, you have stage control and he's one hit away from being offstage!). Above all, don't worry about combos as much as getting Fox offstage where you can gimp him, that is key imo.

This matchup is so deep there is no way anyone could fully explain it, but in a nutshell, you have to have a VERY good offense, and even a better defense. Lol I got off early today and I was bored. If I helped the minds of any Ganon players having trouble Fox recently get back on track, mission accomplished. It's also wise imo to check the techchasing thread and my edgeguarding thread from time to time. Even though we've all seen it several times it usually gives me ideas (Magus's gif's mostly).
Click to expand...
[/collapse]Yeah like, I know in theory most of this stuff. I'm just bad at this game though. My reaction time kinda sucks, and I naturally prefer to slow the match down rather than bring my speed up to my opponent's.

There's a Fox in my area called DanteFox. I mean he's just legit as hell with Fox. I can generally outplay him when he goes any other character, but man...just it's so hard to outplay a Fox that knows what he's doing.

Techchasing fastfallers though makes me hard. You don't know how much I love picking apart '"silly" habits.

Unrelated, but I don't understand why people don't use "collapse=" tags. They're gdlk, and should replace the "spoiler" tag.
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Divinokage said:
I guess but I hope he changes his mind in the future.. =P It's also better if he said something here to clarify this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wish he'd speak up for himself.

I mean, whatever happened to that combo video that was supposed to hit before Pound 5? :/
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
He might snap out of it. He's said he was over Ganon twice before and came back both times. I dunno about you guys, but although I've never abandoned Ganon as a main, there have been many times where I've thought about picking up a new main because of certain matchups, but I never said anything. In the end I just have too much fun playing Ganon. Not to mention my 2nd best char is luigi, which isn't any better lol. I wish I had a **** marth or sheik but oh well, those characters are gay. Punch em.
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
I dunno, I think Ganon vs Falco is a hell of a lot more appealing than Falcon vs Falco. I mean, it sucks a lot if the Falco doesn't mess up and does all his punishes correctly, but Falco has to actually respect Ganon's spacing and grab more.

And Ganon is better than Falcon against a lot of characters that are worse than him lol.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,535
Location
The back country, GA
A2ZOMG said:
I dunno, I think Ganon vs Falco is a hell of a lot more appealing than Falcon vs Falco. I mean, it sucks a lot if the Falco doesn't mess up and does all his punishes correctly, but Falco has to actually respect Ganon's spacing and grab more.

And Ganon is better than Falcon against a lot of characters that are worse than him lol.
Click to expand...
Falco has to respect Falcon's grab and spacing just as much as he does Ganon, what Falcon lacks in initial punishment from winning an exchange, he makes up for in his godly ability to follow up.

Also, Falcon and Ganon do pretty similarly with mid/low/bottom tiers. Despite how different they are, Ganon and Falcon are like sister characters... they have lots of potential for **** but they require an insane defense because a) ganon is a huge target and great combo weight, and b) falcon is a big target and a ff'er. Ganon probably has an advantage on characters he can cg like pikachu maybe, idk.
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
-ACE- said:
Falco has to respect Falcon's grab and spacing just as much as he does Ganon, what Falcon lacks in initial punishment from winning an exchange, he makes up for in his godly ability to follow up.

Also, Falcon and Ganon do pretty similarly with mid/low/bottom tiers. Despite how different they are, Ganon and Falcon are like sister characters... they have lots of potential for **** but they require an insane defense because a) ganon is a huge target and great combo weight, and b) falcon is a big target and a ff'er. Ganon probably has an advantage on characters he can cg like pikachu maybe, idk.
Click to expand...
I honestly think that Falco does about the same vs Ganon as he does vs Captain Falcon. Ganon can space and stuff, but the tech-chasing from falcon gives him options Ganon does not have. Ganon relies on reads, and well favored trades, while CF can use his speed to re-grab or techchase falco.
 
Walt

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
I actually always consider going ganon everytime I play against falco in touney but I always just stay falcon for some reason.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I actually prefer these days to go Falcon vs Falco, I just don't feel comfortable in the matchup with Ganon I simply can't grasp the matchup for some reason, no matter what I do.. lol. And well my Falcon is almost on par with my Ganon too which is good. =P
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
1,156
Location
Arkansas
Divinokage said:
I actually prefer these days to go Falcon vs Falco, I just don't feel comfortable in the matchup with Ganon I simply can't grasp the matchup for some reason, no matter what I do.. lol. And well my Falcon is almost on par with my Ganon too which is good. =P
Click to expand...
That's impressive.

Too bad you'll always be known for your Ganon though Kage :)
 
Jonas

Jonas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
2,400
Location
Aarhus, Denmark, Europe
Captain Falcon is a space warrior from the future.

Oh and I can understand having trouble against Falco because Ganon is kind of huge and slow lol =D
 
Pawls to the Wall

Pawls to the Wall

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
235
Location
____Houston, Texas____ Posts: 1,071 +
I've been having some trouble against local Falcons mostly. They know WAY too much about comboing Ganon at this point, so I've been counterpicking fox and exploiting falcon's weaknesses. It's much easier to win now....sad to say for Ganon. Also, my Falcon has been fairing better against Falco. I'd hate to switch, but that's how it's looking.
 
Samba

Samba

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
97
Location
Brentwood, TN
Can anyone refer me to a thread that deals with weird, inexplicable things?
I have a video (Phone, bad quality. Had to record in a hurry, nothing else available) of me and a friend playing a match and during the match, the announcer guy starts saying stuff in slow-motion... And then other characters say stuff in slow-motion, like the star fox team... it was actually quite unsettling, made me think of the exorcist. anyway yeah, thanks

Samba
 
G

godslafco

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
38
Location
Baltimore, MD
ACE: MAD respect for your signature now.....Big-L!!

That'd almost be all except I don't know about this grabbing thing. Sometimes I'll feel it, but usually I'm terrified of the bubble that peach has. Tough ish
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
-ACE- said:
Falco has to respect Falcon's grab and spacing just as much as he does Ganon, what Falcon lacks in initial punishment from winning an exchange, he makes up for in his godly ability to follow up.

Also, Falcon and Ganon do pretty similarly with mid/low/bottom tiers. Despite how different they are, Ganon and Falcon are like sister characters... they have lots of potential for **** but they require an insane defense because a) ganon is a huge target and great combo weight, and b) falcon is a big target and a ff'er. Ganon probably has an advantage on characters he can cg like pikachu maybe, idk.
Click to expand...
I think Ganon dominates a number of bad characters more convincingly than Falcon because he's harder to gimp and because he has some extra gay stuff out of grab that isn't really DI dependent. Also against most characters worse than Ganon, he rarely has to worry about his moves losing in direct exchanges just because his movepool is so solid, while Falcon actually does have to avoid getting into direct exchanges in almost every matchup he plays.

Anyhow Ganon vs Falco I feel is easier than Falcon vs Falco because the throw followups are easier for Ganon. Like, if you DI away from Falcon's D-throw, it limits his guaranteed followups quite a bit, so he doesn't really have as much of an ability to option select Falco on techchase.
 
n0ne

n0ne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Toronto, Ontario
i used to agree on this also, mainly becuase ganons grab-followup game is better than capis, but in the end, against falco, i think this is falcons way, remember, falcon has the ability to catch up to falco, has better tech chase against him, and well, his weight against him MAY not be better, but at not to far , to to close range, in edgeguarding, definitly ganon wins, but with mindgames and movement, falcon can be MUCH scarier than ganon. also, most falcos panic at ganon-techases, and getup attack alot, so this is a point in ganons favor, he punishes very well{

Also, -ACE-, well said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom