Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Ledgedash grab is never invincible, only ledgehop grab. Ledgedash jab is invincible frame perfect or 1 frame of error iirc.

Also, RLD frame perfect to ff regrab is a fully invincible infinite stall.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not sure if thats true about the ledgedash invincibility frames, ACE, ill check in dolphin soonish

As for the ledgedash regrab, it theoretically can be invincible the whole time. The thing about the ledge invincibility is that you can't regrab the edge before the invincibility is over so you would have to time your actions so that you are in range to grab the edge on the last frame you are invincible so the next frame you will grab the edge. Not sure if ganon is capable of this, but magus wrote a post about this once.

 

[-ACE-]

I got it directly from magus.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Yeah you're right. I just checked in debug. Ledgedash grab is not invincible. However, ledgehop nair is....lol? The first kick comes out.

I love this hacked copy of melee. Debug mode replaces tournament mode. It's so convenient.

 

[DippnDots]

Are you taking into accuont that by the time his invincibility wears off there are grab hitboxes in fornt of him? or are you vulnerable before the grab hitboxes come out?

 

[G. Vice]

Yeah you're right. I just checked in debug. Ledgedash grab is not invincible. However, ledgehop nair is....lol? The first kick comes out.

I love this hacked copy of melee. Debug mode replaces tournament mode. It's so convenient.

I loved the texture hacks, Wind Waker Ganon is amazing!

 

[Palpi]

I just want to play yellow fox.

 

[Samba]

also SOMEWHAT concerning Ganon edge stuff question stuff
I'm having a lot of trouble moonwalking and gaining any distance at all. like for instance that tech video by... what's that guy's name... well whatever, Ganon on Ice. are there aspects to moonwalking I'm simply not aware of? has it more to do with momentum than timing? if anyone could possibly direct me to a more in depth moonwalking guide (one that doesn't just say "smash forward than roll the control stick back"), I'd appreciate it

 

[Samba]

DippnDots
"definitely worth AR, the more ledge options we get, the better."


I'd look into this stuff myself if I still had AR, but since I don't... what about ledge hop, RUN off the stage, DJ, b-air or u-air? I mean, it's kind of a wonky move that wouldn't be applicable in many situations but if there are ANY frames of invincibility still left while the hitbox for the b-air or u-air is out... could be worth something. worth at least looking into, unless someone already knows.

-- hey I'm a cadet!! after ten years of smashing!!

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

also SOMEWHAT concerning Ganon edge stuff question stuff
I'm having a lot of trouble moonwalking and gaining any distance at all. like for instance that tech video by... what's that guy's name... well whatever, Ganon on Ice. are there aspects to moonwalking I'm simply not aware of? has it more to do with momentum than timing? if anyone could possibly direct me to a more in depth moonwalking guide (one that doesn't just say "smash forward than roll the control stick back"), I'd appreciate it

I'd just say your form is bad. Keep practicing and read that moonwalking guide again. As long as you get the moonwalk out before your waveland is over you should gain distance.

 

[Jonas]

Concerning the "Ganon on Ice" video, he is able to make his moonwalks much longer by using the momentum from a wave land. It's pretty hard to do, but if you ledgehop waveland and start dashing towards the edge ASAP, you should be able to do a pretty nice moonwalk.
You can also do this from a regular wavedash, but it's hard to make it go as far because you need to wavedash in a really narrow angle to get the most momentum.

Other characters can do something similar, like Marth with whom you can gain distance easier by first walking in the direction you wish to moonwalk.

It's not impossible to gain distance with Ganon from a regular moonwalk without previous momentum, but it's really hard to do.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Debug mode replaces tournament mode. It's so convenient.

where can i find such a hack?

 

[Samba]

thanks Pawl and Jonas. you have enlightened me.

and yeah, about that hack... do tell

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think N-air is underused when comboing after D-throw. Yeah U-air is often preferable, but N-air is a good mixup even if it's impractically hard to land the 2nd hit. Sometimes if you catch them DIing towards you, they'll be in a better position for more juggles if you N-air. The other nice thing about implementing a few N-airs along with your U-airs is you'll do a tad more overall damage with consecutive grabs if you're mixing up more options to work around stale moves. This is assuming of course that your opponent likes DIing away from you a lot during D-throw at lower percents and not at the percents where F-air would combo and kill them.

I forget the details but I did pull off a funny combo that was like D-throw -> N-air -> N-air -> U-air. Might have been on Falcon.

 

[Samba]

I find the N-air works well on Zelda (brother mains sheik, and plays Zelda for footfun) at low damage after a down-throw. Also if you F-air or something from a full jump and they don't tech you can catch them with with the first hit of the N-air with it's huge reach... I agree with you that it's underused. I think I said something about the N-air earlier in this thread about its applications...

 

[-ACE-]

I hate nair. If he's going to di towards you, you can get 2 uairs (sometimes even a fair). He'll be dead before the move gets stale anyway, especially if he's letting you get that many grabs lol. I dunno how you got a uair to combo after both hits of nair either, the second hit of nair has some crazy kb.

 

[Samba]

I've never used the N-air for combos. really the only situation under which I've used it is the last minute attack. like if I'm in some sort of lag after a move and I'd get punished with a grab upon landing, throw out a last minute N-air to stop the approach

 

[-ACE-]

I've actually used it like that also, and you are right, it does have applications. I just hate it in general.

 

[Divinokage]

Nair to jab shield pressure gogo lol.

 

[Samba]

Yeah, I mean I don't think it's that great a move, and it just feels weird to use it. But under certain conditions yes.
Something I've tried to do recently is hit/edge cancel the first hitbox, and combo into a DJ U-air or F-air. Although I find it hard to edge cancel the N-air since you can't use the C-stick. kinda difficult to DI yourself correctly since you have to have a neutral control stick when you initiate the attack... But if you CAN edge cancel it, the knockback from the first hit is VERY conducive for continuity of comboing

 

[A2ZOMG]

I hate nair. If he's going to di towards you, you can get 2 uairs (sometimes even a fair). He'll be dead before the move gets stale anyway, especially if he's letting you get that many grabs lol. I dunno how you got a uair to combo after both hits of nair either, the second hit of nair has some crazy kb.

No it was literally N-air -> N-air -> U-air on bad DI.

Repeated first hit of N-air for juggling. It works on incorrect DI sometimes, and people should keep that in mind.

I was like "that ain't Falcon" when that happened.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Yo Linguini. Props to beating my brother. That ****'s tough w/Ganon.

 

[Divinokage]

Yo Linguini. Props to beating my brother. That ****'s tough w/Ganon.

Really? It is? =)

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Get off that high horse, warrior. Did you go to Pound 5 btw? If you did I didn't even see ur name in brackets =P

 

[Divinokage]

Get off that high horse, warrior. Did you go to Pound 5 btw? If you did I didn't even see ur name in brackets =P

Never! You can never defeat me! And no I didn't go to P5.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Come to Genesis so I can give you an extra large helping of ****. =)

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Yo Linguini. Props to beating my brother. That ****'s tough w/Ganon.

Hell yeah it is. He got first seed in second round didn't he? I don't remember how our tournament set went or how close it was, but he won 2-0.

He seemed to know more about the matchup than me, thanks to you NoobKing, haha.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yo noobking, ask your bro about bl@ckchris, the ganon from first round pools.

tell me about the fear in his eyes.

 

[Divinokage]

So ya I might do a best of 101 vs my friend Erayz tomorrow, he plays spacies.. he's alright I suppose. I'm gonna try to record it so perhaps I can show a lot of things I do in recent times. =P

 

[-ACE-]

Nice kage. I'd watch all 51 lol

 

[Samba]

I'd to get some recording equipment to record matches. anyone have a recommendation?

 

[DippnDots]

what's your budget, Samba? Whatever you go with, i'd recommend a capture card and computer/laptop, better quality and stuff

 

[Jonas]

So ya I might do a best of 101 vs my friend Erayz tomorrow, he plays spacies.. he's alright I suppose. I'm gonna try to record it so perhaps I can show a lot of things I do in recent times. =P

Great, I'll prepare a bag of popcorn

 

[Manondorf]

Saw you guys talking about n-air so I thought I'd add something.

All of this applies to the 1st hit of n-air only.

I like to use n-air to re-float people sometimes, it's situational. If you come from below them and hit with the first hit of n-air on the hitbox near the top of ganon's head it sends them up and away a little. Depending on % and the opponents DI a hit from n-air like this can lead to a f-air.

I've managed to do this combo that only works on fox/falco and maybe falcon. I haven't tested it against falcon much.

starting at ~20% (maybe higher on falco):
d-air > side b > n-air > f-air
d-air > side b > n-air > b-air
d-air > side b > n-air > n-air > f-air

Also I will try to hit an opponent who has fallen on a platform above me with n-air and this can work. The idea is that if done correctly it will always lead to another hit.

I'm still not totally convinced of the n-airs viability though, I need to test it more. Give it a try for yourself. I'll try to get some video of the combos at some point

 

[Samba]

what's your budget, Samba? Whatever you go with, i'd recommend a capture card and computer/laptop, better quality and stuff

my budget has the potential to be fairly large. I'll be investing in the setup with three, possibly four other people, and we'll divvy up the cost. we all play smash together at only one of our houses mostly anyway so we only really need one recording setup which we can just keep over there.
since cost isn't as much an object since I'm splitting, I'm more concerned with quality than anything else. and I already have a laptop

 

[-ACE-]

As soon as you add side-b to a combo, it becomes very situational. I like side-b though.

 

[Palpi]

I never use side B...I need to atleast sometimes...i know it is situational...but i NEVER EVER use it EVER

 

[G. Vice]

As soon as you add side-b to a combo, it becomes very situational. I like side-b though.

I abuse side B.

Very situational, but has very big rewards when used right imo.

Alot of my combos have it come to think of it...

 

[Divinokage]

Ya it could also be a good mixup, if they DI away the side-B GG for them lol.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I like it a lot, but if you come across people that know their sh¡t they will di behind you if they get hit mid-air (and sometimes be out of range of a bair)or cc and punish if they are hit on the ground.