Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Ganon is just a beast.. that's what keeps me wanting to come back. I just really like a challenge, fighting spacies, falcon, and sheik are really fun to me, even though Ganon has a disadvantage vs them all. Hell maybe it's just the dair lol. The satisfaction of hitting a few dairs can probably cure the most severe cases of depression lol.

Consider each smashfest/tournament a learning experience. Go in confident, but still realize that you probably won't win every time, and pay attention to your matches. There is always something to be learned.

 

[TresChikon]

Play against a really technical, but predictable Fox who johns a lot.

After a trip to combo island and reading rainbow, you'll feel better.

 

[Divinokage]

hey guys i need some mindset help, and i figured who better to ask than my fellow ganons. ^^ My problem is focus. Lately ive had alot of troubble keeping focus, and when i loose focus i play horrible. Tomorrow im going to a smashfest, and doing horrible there will greatly harm my will to keep playing melee. What kinds of attitudes or mindsets help you guys stay focused when you play? ...and what kind of additudes keep you wanting to come back for more even when you loose?

Well let me ask you this first, why do you play this game? =p

 

[Bl@ckChris]

kage's answer is the best.

but i approve of Tres Chikon's answer. it's worked wonders for me, personally. this kids three favorite words are "no johns, but". so fun.

 

[studly]

lawl guys... thanks for such interesting responses

 

[Linguini]

In smash,and in any other competitive setting really, an important lesson is that you shouldn't be playing to win; but playing to learn. In any given situation, especially when your significantly ahead, or losing, focus on learning as much as you can form your opponent. Do this and I guarantee you'll perform better in tournament.

Playing to win has ****ed me over big time in the past,and until recently I focused on the learning aspect. Example: Me vs shizwiz last match,I have 3 stocks he has 1. I start playing to win, thinking about winning and ****. Guess what, I lost lol. Direct all your focus on your opponent.

Like Ace said,ganon is so fvcking satisfying,I love smashing people's faces in hah. I can play other chars for 5 matches max and then i have to switch lol

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I need some help from Kage.

How do I fight Marth? Just the basic technique is all I need to get down. I'm going to start using Ganon vs Marth more, as I can't stand dittos at all.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

I disagree linguini play to win.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

play to learn, learn to win? = play to win?

 

[TresChikon]

I need some help from Kage.

How do I fight Marth? Just the basic technique is all I need to get down. I'm going to start using Ganon vs Marth more, as I can't stand dittos at all.

Thanks in advance.

CC his fairs.

Tipman his recovery.

U-air out of his u-throw at early %

Grab if he misspaces.

D-throw-****.

Don't burn your jump during his combos.

DI his combos away and survival DI his finishers you should live forever.

Get him above you and you win.

Wow, Ganon is broken.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

that sums it up pretty well. spacing bair is useful, and i prefer the lightshield edgehog tactic for edgeguarding...using tipman for marth seems really hard, plus it takes longer to set up.

 

[TresChikon]

Is it more beneficial to hang on the ledge or to stand on the ledge while edgeguarding anyone in general?

It seems the best I can do is grab them after forcing them onstage (which still is pretty good) but it might not get me the kill.

Any thoughts?

 

[-ACE-]

I'd usually rather shield his sh fairs rather than CC so I get a free uair OoS.

I also like the lightshield edgehog/hanging on the ledge to force him to land with up-b on stage (free dthrow + aerial)

And yeah spaced bair *****. I think I like bair more than any other Ganon lol.

 

[DippnDots]

nah dude, hidden gauntlet is where it's at. Nothing like knocking someone around with your back hand.

 

[Kail]

Is it more beneficial to hang on the ledge or to stand on the ledge while edgeguarding anyone in general?

It seems the best I can do is grab them after forcing them onstage (which still is pretty good) but it might not get me the kill.

Any thoughts?

Depends on the character and what position they are recovering from. For marth I just ledge hop infinite and wait for them to up b on the stage. Then ledge hop to grab, forward smash, hell if they are high enough and you're feeling flashy down b them.

For fox and falco, watch their how high they are. If they are recovering well above the stage stand on the ledge and wait. if they go on the stage run and back air. If they go for the ledge either tipman or forward tilt. If they are recovering equal just tipman or edge hog. If they are below down air unless you think they'll pop their head up in which case you could back air them.

For Captain Falcon just infinate on the ledge and when he up b's just stop and watch. If he goes on stage do the same thing you would with a marth. If he goes for the ledge just hog him.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm i just learned by watching linguini vs lovage, that to do a truly retreating fair, you probably have to cstick it. usually i just jump backwards, and fair forwards...but to have decent spacing against a fox that also has good spacing, you're gonna want to jump backwards, and keep moving backwards even during the fair. meaning that you'd have to hold away as you cstick forward.

just thought i'd share this with the ganon community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiFkZhjqLzU <- video evidence of what i just saw.

 

[-ACE-]

Yea when spacing fairs against Fox you usually want to fully retreat your fairs due to his speed (and bc you never know when he's going to approach), and sometimes not even fastfall if he's coming in hard. I at least start out holding back from the beginning, and if the situation calls for it I might even stop holding back and ff a fair or hold forward and ff fair. It just depends on what Fox is doing.

 

[PEEF!]

My Ganon is getting DD camped way hard by Marths and Falcons.

I don't know how to avoid this. I have little success bairing marth because they just dd grab me. Same situation with Falcon except I am a good techchaser and that matchup isnt too bad because of it. But I still get grabbed all the fuking time because of DD.

Maybe this is part of learning characters other than Fox/Falco/Falcon (the characters that can't get DD camped). Whatever the case, it ****s me up mad hard and I could use some help with it, again especially against marth and Falcon.

 

[RestInPeace]

Walk in -> stand. They'll be too scared to DD anymore. Run towards him, WD back. Just try to bait him. Notice if he'll approach with an aerial. If he does, you can Bair him or Side B -> Aerial. If he approaches grounded with an attack, shield -> Uair/Grab if its mispsaced/WD OoS Grab. If he grabs, he's doing the matchup right.

If Marth is DD camping to grab, you can try doing the same. Bait and do the above since they might not grab because they see an opportunity, or Down B/Side B close to them and cut off their DD. Try empty hop -> waveland FTilt. This is very good against Marth.

What NOT to do against camping anyone: Spam aerials (Bairs/Uairs/Dairs/Nairs/Fairs). Any of them. Especially double aerials (sh aerial -> dj aerial). The reason is because the Marth can ALWAYS tipper you upon landing. Any other character will grab/aerial -> aerial. Then you're screwed because you're easily tech chased.

Basically, if you know what they want to do, bait it and punish.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

thanks rich and RIP. thats a great question with an equally satisfying answer. usually against a DDing marth i spam bair...now i realize why that doesn't quite work.

 

[studly]

Just now getting a chance to report in... did okay at the smashfest. Mostly i treated it as a learning opportunity and that alone helped me stay focused durring my matches. Ganon really is soo satisfying!! I love getting a kill from a fair tech chase

In smash,and in any other competitive setting really, an important lesson is that you shouldn't be playing to win; but playing to learn. In any given situation, especially when your significantly ahead, or losing, focus on learning as much as you can form your opponent. Do this and I guarantee you'll perform better in tournament.

Playing to win has ****ed me over big time in the past,and until recently I focused on the learning aspect. Example: Me vs shizwiz last match,I have 3 stocks he has 1. I start playing to win, thinking about winning and ****. Guess what, I lost lol. Direct all your focus on your opponent.

I think i understand what youre saying here. & its kinda what i ended up doing. example: I played my first good samus durring the smashfest and i ended up learning rather quickly by just paying attention to my opponent and i started doing better and better as the match progressed

 

[RestInPeace]

Parental johns suck. I can hardly go to any tournaments. D: Only getting better from friendlies. Suuuucks

 

[CluelessBTD]

Got to play D'oH(peach) and Arc(fox) over the weekend for the first time. Darkrain got away this time, I guess I'll have to MM him. I've gotten so much better cuz of Final Smash 8. I've got some vids, but I don't know if I should upload them. Might upset some people

People don't know about this Ganon and they paid for it, haha.

 

[-ACE-]

Upload that sh*t Clue!

 

[Pyrostormer]

Upload that sh*t Clue!

I second AND third this.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i approve of the uploading

seeing more ganon vids is always useful. seeing ganon own the opposition is just plain good fun.

 

[HiIH]

Is the answer to the question in this thread title to Fair?

just wondering.

 

[Renth]

Is the answer to the question in this thread title to Fair?

just wondering.

No.

Just Fair.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I have some questions actually after some tech work.
When does the Forward+B have the ability to dodge projectiles? Is it even worth hoping to use when playing against Falco?
Should I always DI away from Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, and Captain Falcon? I've assumed so and have been practicing but when do I stop because there times when I just don't when I get to 120%~ because of fear of Tipper and Knee and what not.
I'm just trying to get myself back in the game.

 

[-ACE-]

Posted this in another thread (Falcon)

Keep a decent eye on your damage, and if you're at low% you have to train yourself to DI away no matter what (don't fear the knee). At med%(30-80?) you gotta pay close attention to your opponent, stay DI'ing all hits away unless you see the knee coming (you should have time), then survival DI (up and slightly in). And obviously at high% you pretty much survival DI everything. I'm sure you know all of that, but just try focusing on Falcon and only switching your DI if you see the knee coming.

Basically you need to have an idea as to what moves have strong kb (ko moves) and when they might be coming (as well as their direction of kb), which will determine your di. That, and good reaction skills. But yeah, generally (against all the chars you mentioned) at low% you're going to want to DI away (or some form of away).

 

[CluelessBTD]

vs Mouf(Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km2Tts3SYQ4

vs Mouf(Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-RLAFUMT90


vs Dawn(Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3fpzc9LBpY

 

[Dr. Hyde]

nice games clue, you read them pretty well some very nice combos I'll try and use.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

clue's got a nice ganon as always. I love his tech-chases and chain-grabs especially on furries

edit: You should get a dazzle around $70 if you have windows XP as your operating system. Go host your own tourney and win 1st place. that's what I did to buy one. However, commentary by you and your opponent is hilarious.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

oh just from practicing some tech, I saw that on PKMN Stadium when the fire area comes up you can waveland off the left side platform and get an Nair out that hits just under the edge of the stage. Or you can Uair which is safer and probably better but just a note, against like Marth recovering

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

ganon/falco team is too good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1F0LRZqLFs

 

[-ACE-]

Lol nice Bizz

 

[Bl@ckChris]

soooooo how did the general ganon community feel about *Pound* 4? looks like two of us made it to the bracket, and chaddd got to the third round of pools. do we think we underperformed, did better than we expected, or got around where we wanted? or did we get wrecked by the brackets and pools, and SD till we wanted to break our controllers? did we learn new tricks that we'll implement at future large tournaments (like HERB 3 in greensboro)?

i haven't watched any of the ganon matches yet, but i wanted to see some or at least any reactions to the event that happened last weekend, here on the ganon boards.

 

[-ACE-]

There were just so many good people there... Linguini had overtriforce early on, who is a beast sheik, and then after beating HMW, Kels, and Axe he had to face Amsah. Kage lost to lucky first round, then beat HBK and Swift, and lost to Armada. Chaddd's third round pool had RaynEX, Scar, and other great players. I think they all did well considering the bracket and the level of competition they were facing.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I hate Ganon vs Peach at high level, it's like 6-4 for Peach. It's just so hard to get in. You get out-prioritized because of that stupid Nair.

 

[-ACE-]

Wouldn't you rather try to prevent Peach from getting in? The matchup is even imo.