Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

Well it is Armada, it's just the way he plays, I felt like I got straight up ***** and there's nothing I could of done lol.

 

[-ACE-]

Ahh. Sucks you lost. Hopefully that set was recorded..?

 

[Divinokage]

Ahh. Sucks you lost. Hopefully that set was recorded..?

Should be, I played on the projector.

 

[spider_sense]

Should be, I played on the projector.

What was Armada doing that was giving you such a hard time Kage? Btw, good job placing 17th (I think you 17th lol) I know it was a hard *** tournament. Oh and did Tipman go?

 

[Linguini]

Armada is pretty ridiculous man. He camps alot vs ganon and spams the nair really well lol.

Pound was mad fun even though I got the sheik bracket. I had the set vs Overtriforce and I threw it away.
vs Amsah it was my first match of the day(i know,johns haha, but i need to be warmed up to deal with that level of campyness ) so I got wrecked. Pretty happy with getting 13th, the bracket was ****ing stacked.

Me and Kage double ganon will be happening at a tournament coming soon, were a ****ing **** team!

 

[CluelessBTD]

Ya I hate Ganon vs Peach at high level, it's like 6-4 for Peach. It's just so hard to get in. You get out-prioritized because of that stupid Nair.

Wait, I don't see how she could hit you with Nair if you space properly, since she won't be able to get into your range. Also, how could she camp if you can catch her projectiles?

 

[-ACE-]

Me and Kage double ganon will be happening at a tournament coming soon

Can't wait to see this.

 

[DippnDots]

Wait, I don't see how she could hit you with Nair if you space properly, since she won't be able to get into your range. Also, how could she camp if you can catch her projectiles?

armada probably doesn't play 2-d like that, spacing and camping i mean.

 

[Divinokage]

Wait, I don't see how she could hit you with Nair if you space properly, since she won't be able to get into your range. Also, how could she camp if you can catch her projectiles?

It's not that simple, there's a way to play Peach into where Ganon cannot catch her turnips. Peach's turnip if used properly can pretty much shut down Ganon. And then once you get in, well you gotta somehow handle her priority. Armada's moves come out so fast, there's no time to react. He can do SH float cancel Nair repeatedly like soooo ****ing fast lol. (That's just to tell you how sick his technical is with Peach) And also, his reaction time is the best I've seen so far.

Also i usually get beat by Vwins a lot, I haven't won a tourney set ever vs him, only 1 game on a BS stage. When I play sets.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Yeah I saw him doing those quick Nairs on livestream. I have NEVER seem a more technical peach. Has anyone tried attacking the turnips rather than catching them? I mean, hit it with a uair so that you can stop it without getting too close to Peach.

Reason I suggest this, is that a Peach that I play has adapted to my turnip catching by spacing differently so that I can't catch it without getting attacked. I switched it up by Uairing the turnip away instead.

 

[RestInPeace]

Do you mean attacking through the turnip? I know many other characters (Falcon's Bair, Jiggs aerials, Marth/Roy's Counter, etc) attack straight through them instead of catching them. I haven't seen any Ganons trying to do this, but I can see a SH Bair -> DJ Bair going through the turnips and hitting an approaching Peach.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Yeah I saw him doing those quick Nairs on livestream. I have NEVER seem a more technical peach. Has anyone tried attacking the turnips rather than catching them? I mean, hit it with a uair so that you can stop it without getting too close to Peach.

Reason I suggest this, is that a Peach that I play has adapted to my turnip catching by spacing differently so that I can't catch it without getting attacked. I switched it up by Uairing the turnip away instead.

But wouldn't the Peach just float toward you after and Fair?
I think the way I'm trying to phrase it is that it seems like that would work but it depends on when Peach throws the Turnip.
I mean can't they still throw it with Z button while floating?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah...i've tried uairing turnips thrown out of floats. i think the only way that would work is if you sort of retreating uaired and maybe an up angled ftilt would hit a peach thinking you'd come straight down (as opposed to the retreating uair). but after playing a good up and coming peach, i've found that they are tough to deal with...

part of it is that i'm not that good yet either though...

 

[maximuspita]

I know for a fact that you can hit Turnips with Ganon's N-air(I wouldn't know if you could apply this in a match). Kage is correct though, Peach can play in such a way that catching turnips is either irrelevant or detrimental. I asked Armada at pound what he thought about the matchup and he said that it was a Fair match and that it went down to Stage Selection.

Linguini, you were a beast at Pound.

 

[spider_sense]

Like Guini said a simple solution to turnips is the block and then catch them, regardless on how they space it, they have to hit you one way or another.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i mean the turnip may not hit you but if peach follows up with something, then i dont think theres time to do that. shield + catch may work when its a throw from the ground, but a floating peach has too many options to follow the turnip with.

i'm just waiting to see the matches. its that same approach that i asked about a month or so ago. it really is hard to deal with...

 

[Divinokage]

i mean the turnip may not hit you but if peach follows up with something, then i dont think theres time to do that. shield + catch may work when its a throw from the ground, but a floating peach has too many options to follow the turnip with.

i'm just waiting to see the matches. its that same approach that i asked about a month or so ago. it really is hard to deal with...

Ya it's mix up, you gotta have really good reaction time to know what's he gonna do next. I'm really scared that the future metagame revolves around incredible reaction time. It's gonna kill so many players from reaching the top since only a few can have that.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah...that would be a shame.

i'm just trying to get as good as i can. i'm nowhere near the wall i figure i'm supposed to hit; i've got a long list of stuff to work on before i start thinking "hmmm if only my reaction time were better".

which reminds me, idk if i've already asked this, but is there really any good way to get more consistent at doing what you want to do on the ledge? i'm practicing as much as i can, and i'm trying to do what i want in battle, but i still end up jumping. i'm using the method where you hit down on the control stick, then use Y to jump, and roll the stick towards the stage and do whatever (ledgedash/ grab/ uair). i think a lot of times i end up trying to hit down before the 9 frames are up, so my down input doesn't really happen, and then i jump off the ledge. i do this so often, that i get predicted to jump off the ledge, leading to generally bad things (bair, dair, knee, etc).

does it help to separate the process, like trying to slow down, or does that timing just come from more practice? cause i feel like if i'm too late (trying to wait for the 9 frames), i either get hit while ledge stalling (trying to regain invincibility) or when i finally do ledgedash (when i see the grab opportunity, but when i wait too long, i'm vulnerable at the end, so they just hit me).

long question, but this is one of the primary things i'm struggling with. ledge stuff is really important...especially against sheiks. thanks.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

yeah...that would be a shame.

i'm just trying to get as good as i can. i'm nowhere near the wall i figure i'm supposed to hit; i've got a long list of stuff to work on before i start thinking "hmmm if only my reaction time were better".

which reminds me, idk if i've already asked this, but is there really any good way to get more consistent at doing what you want to do on the ledge? i'm practicing as much as i can, and i'm trying to do what i want in battle, but i still end up jumping. i'm using the method where you hit down on the control stick, then use Y to jump, and roll the stick towards the stage and do whatever (ledgedash/ grab/ uair). i think a lot of times i end up trying to hit down before the 9 frames are up, so my down input doesn't really happen, and then i jump off the ledge. i do this so often, that i get predicted to jump off the ledge, leading to generally bad things (bair, dair, knee, etc).

does it help to separate the process, like trying to slow down, or does that timing just come from more practice? cause i feel like if i'm too late (trying to wait for the 9 frames), i either get hit while ledge stalling (trying to regain invincibility) or when i finally do ledgedash (when i see the grab opportunity, but when i wait too long, i'm vulnerable at the end, so they just hit me).

long question, but this is one of the primary things i'm struggling with. ledge stuff is really important...especially against sheiks. thanks.

dude I feel that. I've just recently been getting RLD but it is either I get it or I a Air dodge away from the stage to my death. I sincerely believe it's practice and muscle memory.

I've been playing maybe 30 minutes total on 3 different stages every other day just to get the LD down and it has been noticebly better.
I try and just go to a stage set time for 10 min and just LD on one side for 5 min and then the other.
I haven't had anyone to play against so just working on that and L-canceling is all I can do for now.

I know that doesn't make up for the fact that a match can wreck your nerves and if you get nervous I just avoid LD all together if I need to get back on. It is worse if you are down a stock, that fear of SDing is a pain for Ganondorfs

 

[Bl@ckChris]

that is, almost word for word, what i've been doing so far. i think i start on battlefield, then go yoshi's, and then FoD usually. but i try to mix up stages, cause i feel that each one is a little bit different somehow...

thanks for your input though, it's good to know i'm not the only one

 

[sirchadakiss18]

I spam dtilt with Ganon, great setups afterwards.

RANDOM POST FTW!

Oh and Hi, I main Ganon in Melee too :D


Weirdest story ever:

So im playing Ganon yesterday against a CPU Marth and my control stick was out of the neutural position so and Ganondorf was crouching down the whole time so I was playing like that for lulz and I noticed everytime I got hit By an attack from Marth like a F-Tilt or his Jab my Ganon was not receiving knockback and I kept pressing the A button just D-tilting at the Marth eating through his attacks, so im asking is that a glitch, a tech? Something useful?

After I reset my buttons and control stick I decided to try that on other characters attacking Ganon and still the same thing I was cancelling the knockback of the other characters! :O

I started Jabbing at them to space them away after they hit me and then follow with a d-tilt, is there a name for that or something on the Melee boards?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

crouch canceling. its really important in a lot of matchups, and i'm finally starting to get used to using it against captain falcon (crouch cancel jab).

but yeah, it's a pretty important part of melee

 

[Skyshroud]

Random fun thing I figured out today: After doing an Up B OOS (I'm assuming people aren't just randomly using Up B on the stage), you have a window to waveland (and thus perfect waveland) afterwords. It's admittedly situational and won't lead to any combos or anything, but I thought it was useful enough to control spacing after I get off the Up B. I tend to not use it ever because I always feel like I'm on the defensive afterwards (which admittedly, it better than straight up getting hit). Just wondering if anybody else tried this.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

interesting discovery even though it might be commonly known, I'll use it as a surprise in my next tourney. ganon's too funn

 

[Linguini]

Random fun thing I figured out today: After doing an Up B OOS (I'm assuming people aren't just randomly using Up B on the stage), you have a window to waveland (and thus perfect waveland) afterwords. It's admittedly situational and won't lead to any combos or anything, but I thought it was useful enough to control spacing after I get off the Up B. I tend to not use it ever because I always feel like I'm on the defensive afterwards (which admittedly, it better than straight up getting hit). Just wondering if anybody else tried this.

Ive known this but I rather squeeze out a quick uair to block just in case my opponent recovers quick because he's at low percent.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

that is, almost word for word, what i've been doing so far. i think i start on battlefield, then go yoshi's, and then FoD usually. but i try to mix up stages, cause i feel that each one is a little bit different somehow...

thanks for your input though, it's good to know i'm not the only one

I usually do Dreamland 64, Battlefield and Yoshi's. The platforms are all different levels to just jump and waveland which makes them something to stay up on. I find that the Yoshi's level is a little troublesome getting on and off with Wavelands but the Cloud gives me a some safeguard if I should fall.

FoD is annoying with the platforms, they tend to mess up my L-cancels if they all of a sudden start to change.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

wait....so while you're in the blinking special fall...you're able to waveland/uair/freakin anything? thats....really interesting.

and Dr. Hyde...i wish we weren't like 4 states away lol. i want to ganon ditto and share tips and stuff.

 

[Skyshroud]

Ive known this but I rather squeeze out a quick uair to block just in case my opponent recovers quick because he's at low percent.

Even better. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: Chris, it's only if you land the Up B, which is why I was talking about it OOS specifically.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i tested it out a few times, and thats what i found. i couldn't get the waveland, but the uair is effective and it works.

cool stuff.

 

[RestInPeace]

Just out of curiosity... What main aspect of Smash have you struggled the most with as a Ganon main? Ignore this post if you think its irrelevant/stupid.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ledge stuff. hence my question earlier :-\

to elaborate, it really is frustrating to know "man all i have to do is ledgehop grab this sheik and its game over!" and then when i try to DI on to the stage, i go right back to the ledge, try again, proceed to get hit, until i lose. situations such as these and other ledgehops/ledgedash/ledgedrop uair upB style techs are really important and cool to me, but it seems like at least 60% of the time, i jump off the edge instead of doing my desired cool/effective ledge techskill.

i'm looking forward to some of the other answers.

 

[Divinokage]

Just out of curiosity... What main aspect of Smash have you struggled the most with as a Ganon main? Ignore this post if you think its irrelevant/stupid.

Probably learning to space and making the right decisions.

Or also matchups.. even now it's so hard to master certain matchups like Fox or Sheik for example. **** man lol.

Edit: Also getting punished by top players x1000000 times, that was hell back in the day.

 

[spider_sense]

Just out of curiosity... What main aspect of Smash have you struggled the most with as a Ganon main? Ignore this post if you think its irrelevant/stupid.

Lol Definitely matchups. Being spontaneous and unpredicatable; more or less the technical aspect of trying to make a fast yet effective character when he's suppose to be slow.

 

[DippnDots]

being patient to throw out an attack so that the timing is just right. A lot of times I feel like i'll sorta go into a spam mode where i dont time anything up but just keep throwing out attack after attack, with ganon that sometimes works against people cause of the space is creates, but against the high guys they'll just wait and get around it :\

the other thing that really bothers me is getting shield pressured by spacies, ****'s weak

 

[RestInPeace]

Kage, are you coming to LBT2? I'll try my best to go.
/parental johns.

 

[Divinokage]

Nope, no money and I have school on saturday from now on. I thought I already mentioned that I am not going to a tournament until summer now.

 

[-ACE-]

Ouch, that's rough Kage.. but I feel you, I've had work every saturday for the past 5 months.

I was able to get some matches in with a beast Fox (l0zR) this past Sunday.. god he is so good vs Ganon. Luckily I didn't get ***** that badly lol. We tried to get a vcr to record but no dice.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

sorry to interrupt that other awesome question, but i have another good question, that while playing i wanted an answer to:

when trying to space, i couldn't decide what mentality to go about it with. Should i be thinking more "I'd rather miss completely than get shield grabbed" or more like "if i do this right, no matter what, the tip of this fist should hit that shield"

Mentality A seems more defensive, but when i went about it like that against the person i play against (a fox/falco main), whenever i missed, it wasn't very beneficial at all, and in fact, i got punished. however, having that mentality kept me from getting shieldgrabbed oftentimes, because if anything, i had too much space between me and the given opponent.

Mentality B seems a little more offensive, but can prove frustrating, because at least under my experience with spacing attempts, sometimes my tip does hit their shield and i feel amazing (and then i realize "well now what. i just kept them from shield grabbing me...), and other times i get way too inside just making sure i hit their shield and then boom, i'm uthrow'd uaired. this mentality allowed me to get hits whenever the opponents shield was too small (fair shield pokes are so fun) or when i could see the approach coming (making sure i didn't overspace allowed me to get the hitbox on him no matter what), but still left me vulnerable to those shieldgrabs.

TL;DR: how do you think of spacing? "Don't get grabbed" or "Hit that Shield."?

 

[-ACE-]

One thing's for sure, you don't want to be spamming (or even SHFFL'ing) aerials anywhere close to Fox, as he essentially gets a free nair approach when you do. It's good to keep him guessing by adding in a waveland or 2 (when he thinks you're going to aerial or double aerial) to keep your space or possibly get a grab if you bait him. Not every aerial will hit their shield, and in some matchups it's better to keep a safe distance than commit that often. If you do hit their shield with a spaced fair, ftilt is a good follow up (angled up against jiggs, falcon/peach sometimes, angled down vs ICs, mario, doc, luigi, and neutral ftilt vs spacies and most others). Dtilt can also be a good choice in some matchups.

 

[Linguini]

Nope, no money and I have school on saturday from now on. I thought I already mentioned that I am not going to a tournament until summer now.

Sameee im staying in FL for tournies until summer.