Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[LoOshKiN]

I really recommend playing better characters and finding out if it's really ganon's options or PP's game.
Especially if you're not having fun. I don't think cynicism and fun go hand in hand and fun should be important, competitiveness aside.
But as ganon mains we'd like to think it's just PP's game, and have fun continuing to wield the triforce of power.

Sometimes playing Sveet I'd feel bested in every way but I clung on to one sequence of thought:
1.One hit. That's all I need. I was determined.
2. Combo to intentionally set him up near the edge, if not off stage. Either is great positioning.
3. Edgeguard. Stock. wavedash dash dance breakdance time.
K.I.S.S. keep it simple-stupid.

If you can you do the first one, you need to focus your hardest to turn it into a the most favorable position. This is greater and more important than damage.
As other characters, I'll back throw just to switch sides with my opponent. As Ganon, it usually only takes a roll or two to get back to center stage.
Hope this helps dude.

Also, confirmed with M2K. Fox's shine hitbox is bigger than Falco's, even though the image for falco's shine is bigger than fox's. Pretty dumb but thankful that falco's shine (the better shine, still) is smaller.

 

[-ACE-]

fox runs faster than waveland ftilt.

if they cross up, we can ftilt behind us, and that'd probably hit, but i tend to wavedash away from their crossover if i can't get the grab, because i haven't developed my PS jab yet.

playing PP has made me rather cynical about ganons options from a pure "what can i do" stage. he gives me fair things to think about, but it all just feels fake in the end.

Dude you are being a pessimist. I'm sure by now PP has grown accustomed to beating "the normal blackchris" you need to switch your **** up and step up your offense man. Even the best Ganon might not get one chance to land a single attack in a stock. Ganon success is turning that first hit into a KO... and as we all know, Ganon has all the tools to do this. That's why I have always stressed edgeguarding so much, everyone seem to talk like they understand how important it is bust most people suck balls at it and haven't practiced enough.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

can i just say again how much i wish i could play with pp all the time

that is all

 

[KirbyKaze]

Look, everyone's bad at this game. Even I'm bad at this game.

edit:

Small word of advice for people discussing how to engage a dash dancing Fox...

It is my extremely humble opinion that you're not going to get far (strategically or analytically speaking) by trying to challenge Fox's macro strategy (dash dance camp, probably a defensive one) with Ganon's micro game. At least on paper, anyway. Ganon is 100% micro character. He doesn't have a real macro game. Because of this, his exchanges are largely won through attack vs attack exchanges and other small interactions that occur as space is encroached or whatnot. Therefore, you'll probably get more insight into how to handle a dash dance by paying attention to the minute interactions that occur when you encroach the dash dance during a specific instance rather than approaching it as a complete whole simply because, well, a technically sound dash dance is probably one of the hardest things in the game to beat (unless you're Falco).

 

[Divinokage]

What I do to beat DD is inching closer to Fox until he is in range where he can attack and then react to his limited options because he'll only be able to Nair from a certain range and he will have to do something eventually since he doesn't want Ganon too close to him. You can stuff it with uair or ftilt for example. If you control the center then it's nice to pressure him to a corner.

Going for trades is always good for Ganon because his power is great!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Falco is troubling me. Here's what I know so far about the matchup:

Jumping over lasers can give you a free fair. CCing lasers into jab/grab is awesome. If you can sdi the lasers and get out of falco's grab range, you basically get a free jab.

^I know all of this and still get ***** by ****ty/mediocre falcos. Any words of advice?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Falco is troubling me. Here's what I know so far about the matchup:

Jumping over lasers can give you a free fair. CCing lasers into jab/grab is awesome. If you can sdi the lasers and get out of falco's grab range, you basically get a free jab.

^I know all of this and still get ***** by ****ty/mediocre falcos. Any words of advice?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Its tough. U have to build walls and make him second guess his own approach. At that time you can start to take his space and pressure him.

 

[-ACE-]

Know your DI in and out. DI the shine behind falco usually and eat the incoming bair, it's better than getting combo'd. Near the edge, DI dair's out when you're grounded at med-high% to avoid that devastating dair to dair death combo. SDI falco's lasers on his uthrow/bthrow. I'm drunk I can't hink of much more right now haha

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Watching pp do the things he's been doing to me to everyone else was pretty damn fun.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Went to a tournament and grand finals was rock crock and I. You guys missed some sick Ganondorf dittos.

GANONDORF IS TAKIN' OVA'

 

[KirbyKaze]

Damn, the world needs me now more than ever.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Went to a tournament and grand finals was rock crock and I. You guys missed some sick Ganondorf dittos.

GANONDORF IS TAKIN' OVA'

Was it Recorded?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

considering that he says we missed them, i'm assuming that we can't get to them even in the future.

if u guys didn't watch kings of cali you should.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Know your DI in and out. DI the shine behind falco usually and eat the incoming bair, it's better than getting combo'd. Near the edge, DI dair's out when you're grounded at med-high% to avoid that devastating dair to dair death combo. SDI falco's lasers on his uthrow/bthrow. I'm drunk I can't hink of much more right now haha

Gahh DI is so ****ing difficult tho. Definitely a skill that takes a long time to develop. Good **** to Eikelmann as well.

Also, what Chris said.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Gahh great DI is so ****ing difficult tho.

fixed. di is pretty simple of a concept. mastering it, like anything, is very difficult.

 

[Divinokage]

No players have perfect DI anyhow, you can also force them to have bad DI depending on the move you use and how you place them inside combos for example.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

di traps are the best.

edit: my friend that plays melee is in a pretty top notch djent band. check this out: http://ovidswithering.bandcamp.com/track/the-legend-of-ovdi-legend-of-zelda-medley

 

[evan56780]

I know you guys have been talking about falco a lot recently but I need some advice i went to a smash fest in my neighborhood and could beat all but this one falco who could short hop laser which none of my buds back home that I trained with.could do so i was just useless when he approached, it forced me to make sure i got every edge guard.

anyways advice for a noob on how to get around them? should i wave land more to really try and space him out? and i read the post way before ill try cc them.

 

[Divinokage]

Sorry I cant really help with Falco, I choose Marth vs him now.

 

[G. Vice]

Sorry I cant really help with Falco, I choose Marth vs him now.

If it wasn't so hard, I would call you a sell out. But the better falcos are getting, it really starts to feel unwinnable. I would dare say played correctly at a professional level, that it's not is the falco going to win, but instead how much is the falco going to win by. I played Dark Atma's sheik recently, and at first I did okay. But every match got worse and worse for me after he calculated my bag of tricks. I was at the point I thought about picking fox, but my fox isn't worth much.

 

[Divinokage]

You can call me whatever you want but to beat certain top players I'm aiming for, I don't think Ganon is the answer. Every other player I can beat, no problem. I also still get owned by Bam constantly when I play Ganon vs Falco, I just can't do that matchup and he also knows every single trick I use so ya.. gg. lol.

 

[G. Vice]

You can call me whatever you want but to beat certain top players I'm aiming for, I don't think Ganon is the answer. Every other player I can beat, no problem. I also still get owned by Bam constantly when I play Ganon vs Falco, I just can't do that matchup and he also knows every single trick I use so ya.. gg. lol.

I'm not calling you nothing. In fact, I concede that point lol. Ganon is limited, that's for sure. This game is not static combos where the low tier can zero to death off one hit. There's always options vs him, and sadly I'm coming to see them. I think he'd be a great character for an alt, or for floaties like Samus/Peach.

 

[Renth]

I played Dark Atma's sheik recently.

My set with DarkAtma was very close, he's pretty fun guy to play. I wish I would have played him more when I had the chance

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

you guys are depressing.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

sometimes real **** has to happen. i told PP before he left for cali that marth might be my new thing. i'll be forced to make similar walls to ganon, but i'll have to start from scratch regarding how to really position myself, especially since i don't really know how to move effectively with that character.

 

[Superspright]

Screw fighting falco. Powershield all day and punish. :D

 

[evan56780]

Question number two from me
when I was playing some of the guys at this smash fest every time I would grab them they would mash the control stick very rapidly in circles, why are they doing this? Is this just an easier way to smash DI out of grabs?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Kevin mixes up his laser timings, fastfalls, heights, and everything to his short hop lasers. It makes it stupid hard to power shield them for some reason. I hate that guy sometimes.

 

[Linguini]

Not ganon related but you guys should check out this new mix I made, all kinds of funkkkk!

http://soundcloud.com/wiley-ruffians/november-2012-lean-mix

 

[odinNJ]

I thought the best music for
Playing Ganon was a clip of him saying "die" for an hour

 

[Divinokage]

No way, that's insanity!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Not ganon related but you guys should check out this new mix I made, all kinds of funkkkk!

http://soundcloud.com/wiley-ruffians/november-2012-lean-mix

off topic post, you've been reported.

lol just kidding, that's some good **** pasta.

Yo and evan, any falco questions, just look at this dude linguini play. Or if there are any recent black chris vids vs. falco, I'm sure he's learned loads vs. falco.

And about mashing out, yea that works, I'm not totally sure how the whole mashing thing works, but if you wanna mash out, you should roll the stick and mash buttons as fast as possible.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

last time i got recorded was like zenith. except maybe some teams with PP idk

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Chris, Y U NO RECORD MATCHES WITH PP?!

 

[Ripple]

Who's the ganon who plays SD:remix? I want to give hime the most perfect ganon ever created

 

[bertbusdriver]

Who's the ganon who plays SD:remix? I want to give hime the most perfect ganon ever created

that pedoturtle fellow... i think a friend of a friend of his might have SD remix.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i have played it, but i don't have it.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

that pedoturtle fellow... i think a friend of a friend of his might have SD remix.

Idk about "friend." That dude is really mean to me in smash.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Who's the ganon who plays SD:remix? I want to give hime the most perfect ganon ever created

didn't i have a part in some of ganondorf's changes? lol