Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[KirbyKaze]

I just wanted to have fun

 

[Renth]

I just wanted to have fun

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I thought you loved me

 

[Renth]

I thought you loved me

my heart was broken when you chose Ace over me I need some time to get over the pain.

 

[KirbyKaze]

We can make it work

Just grow a beard <3

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

You're small, so top.

 

[Divinokage]

I dont even know how 99% of the Ganons can play Ganon, you're all scrawny!! Train like Joe Bushman at least!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Kage: you, me, ace, and trail are all pretty big dudes lol that seems like almost half of the ganons to me

 

[KirbyKaze]

Trail is half a Ganon

 

[-ACE-]

Never bumping a thread again, lmao.

Joe those are all good options. frame perfect ledgedash to grab is only punishable by a few frames, so it's great if you expect that shield, and situationally good regardless. You can also input a jump during your ledgedash and it comes out surprisingly fast. Ledgedash > uair is sick. And there's also short ledgedashes which can really throw off people that are expecting max distance (with practice adjusting the angle you can space a tipper jab on that shield too, and you know they'll go for that grab and whiff). Ledgedash to roll is good if you know the fsmash is coming.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

played with PP again today...bleh.

how do you deal with foxes that dash dance intelligently?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

played with PP again today...bleh.

how do you deal with foxes that dash dance intelligently?

Try jumping forward (pretending to fair) and perfect wavelanding into ftilt. I was watching kage and mango's latest set at FC and mango did the best/smartest DD I've ever seen, but I am 100% POSITIVE that it could've been beaten if Kage had wavelanded into ftilt rather than fairing (which is what mango was baiting).

Also, Dave, that ledge dash to uair sounds like an amazing mixup. Great for falcons that like to knee you at ledge dash range. And I've very recently been experimenting with shortening the ledge dash. I tried it against Dart with limited success (of course, dart is really good). I just don't like being that close to the ledge when Marth is in the center.

...I should be studying chemistry right now... excuse me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

played with PP again today...bleh.

how do you deal with foxes that dash dance intelligently?

I can't do it with Sheik so god help you

 

[-ACE-]

Do your best to pressure them so that dash dancing isn't as safe as they'd want it to be. When he goes aggro, retreating sh uair (in close) or fair (not as close). I'd probably try something that ended in perfect waveland to grab if he's relying on DD heavily. As you already know, perfect waveland is a great tool in this situation, but obviously pp knows this so you have to get in his head. Just keep the pressure on him, don't give him room to run around, control the stage, think, etc. use that ftilt.

and record matches!!!! wtf

Joe yeah that ledgedash uair is wicked fast. you can almost input the jump as soon as you start sliding from the waveland, it's crazy. Experiment with it; you can also input dashes sooner than you'd think. Marth is pretty scary when you're near the edge, I know. You really have to try to study the marth player's habits and take an educated guess as to your approach, since marth has an answer for whatever Ganon has at close range. Obviously ideally you want to land a bair when reading one of his approaches, which is safe and at the very least will reset the neutral game.

Also this is random and old school but still good. If marth is trying to SH double fair and you shield the first one, you are guaranteed a SH uair OOS if he isn't spaced well. Good for when you rush/waveland in with shield. Also fulljump fair dodges marth fsmash and utilt really well. Sorta like situationally fairing to dodge falco lasers. Don't forget about edgeguarding too. Edgeguarding marth gets easy as **** once you get used to it (takes a while) and in reality ganon only stands a chance if he is a lethal edgeguarder. Just keep it in mind.

 

[-ACE-]

I can't do it with Sheik so god help you

man you can give better advice than that lmao. You know what to do. I finally watched m2k vs mango from impulse. great set, jason was on.

 

[-ACE-]

Random quiz to anyone:

Fox comes in hard, dash SH nair, and you get the powershield. What do you do?

 

[KirbyKaze]

You won't love me so I'm not helping anyone

In the Ganon board

Help me seduce Trevor

 

[-ACE-]

You won't love me so I'm not helping anyone

In the Ganon board

Help me seduce Trevor

Off topic. Ban?

Lol. Your sheik can have its way with my Ganon any day. As much as I'd like my Ganon to **** your sheik...... yeah it's not going to happen lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

Random quiz to anyone:

Fox comes in hard, dash SH nair, and you get the powershield. What do you do?

Is he going to cross up at the end of this? And where are we on the stage?

 

[-ACE-]

Is he going to cross up at the end of this? And where are we on the stage?

middle of stage, no cross up. lands in front of you. you are ganon btw lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Jab is guaranteed, so jab.

 

[-ACE-]

Jab is guaranteed, so jab.

NOT YOU KAGE WTF

Good answer. Now, other than kage, what if he crosses you up and lands behind you?

 

[Divinokage]

Ok Ok, I'll let the others figure it out. =P

 

[LoOshKiN]

If fox lands in front of me, center stage, and in grab range I'd go with that since it has better and more guaranteed follow ups than jab. But ganon's grab range is mediocre for some reason. It's inconsistent with the range of all his other moves and has always bothered me.

Unless, of course, fox is above %30ish. In that neighborhood of percent jab forces a tech situation. And we love tech chases. But see from a grab's D-throw you can re-grab, jab, f-tilt, and down B at certain percentages, straight from the throw. Then you have the option of not doing anything from the throw, letting them tech, and following and punishing the tech or lack thereof.

If fox lands behind ganon, turn around f-tilt?
Idk the frames but why wouldn't you shffl a bair if it can punish fox's nair land lag.

But, what if Fox shines, Utilts, or can't he even simply runs away?

 

[Divinokage]

If you go for PS grab after the Nair, you risk getting shine comboed. You basically rely on the Fox missing his L-cancel which is unfavorable. Shine comes out faster than grab even after Fox Nair.

You could WD back grab to make him whiff which then is a lot more in your favor.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

or side b.

 

[Divinokage]

Hmmm.. it's pretty damn hard to time a side-B inside a SH, I don't think I do it because in that case you'd probably get hit instead of hitting it.. it's much easier with either Full Hop or Double Jump.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

just listing a possible option, since you asked.

but i would also go for a grab.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Random quiz to anyone:

Fox comes in hard, dash SH nair, and you get the powershield. What do you do?

if you get pushed back enough and he lands in front, jab or grab (only grab if you are outside shine range).

If he goes behind you... ask kage lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Shine comes out faster than grab even after Fox Nair..

I know this is true, but isn't ganon's grab range slightly bigger than the shine hitbox? And if you get pushed out of shine range from the powershield, this is a free grab, no?

I've done it to falcos (for some reason it's easier to PS a falco dair for me) whenver I can get the PS off and it seems to work decently if I can get it.

 

[Divinokage]

Yes it is but the more powerful Fox player knows the range of their own move and will not shine if they are out of range. They will do another aerial or move away for any other possible moves.

Aerial to shine is really easily auto-piloted by a lot of standard Fox players which is why you can probably get away with a lot of things.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

like side b.

 

[Divinokage]

You should warlock punch, they'll freeze in place.

Aerial --> shine (Whiff) ---> DD. *PUNCHED* lol.

 

[LoOshKiN]

I know this is true, but isn't ganon's grab range slightly bigger than the shine hitbox? And if you get pushed out of shine range from the powershield, this is a free grab, no?

I've done it to falcos (for some reason it's easier to PS a falco dair for me) whenver I can get the PS off and it seems to work decently if I can get it.

idk if you know this, but Falco's shine is smaller than Fox's. Probably why you're getting some of those grabs.
Guess what though, it's still the better shine. So don't get hit by that one and DI hard if you do haha

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i've used warlock punch for shield pressure before. it's been pretty funny.

 

[Divinokage]

Really? It looks bigger though.. Huh..

 

[Renth]

It's true Kage. I weigh 142.2 lbs.

KirbyKaze, I can grow a beard annoyingly fast. I go through razors faster than.... Well, (insert something witty here) I hate it.

 

[LoOshKiN]

Really? It looks bigger though.. Huh..

I think that's just because Falco is bigger than Fox.
but yeahrly, Fox's shine def has a larger hitbox.
iirc:
Fox shine has set back. Falco's does not (knockback increases as percent does).
Also Falco's shine gives more hit stun than Fox's. This allows him to combo off it so well.
but let's face it, that hardly matters since they both can and do combo off of shine.
Also, if a character that doesn't get knocked by Fox's shine (determined by weight) gets hit by fox's shine when they're in the air, DI it down into the ground, the hit stun from the shine cancels and you reset to standing position.

I've come to know all this because I think shine to be the best move in the game. It shield pressures well with other aerials; worse yet, getting hit by it usually means taking a lot of damage or even losing a stock. Needed to know the ins and outs of spacie's shines to beat it.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

fox runs faster than waveland ftilt.

if they cross up, we can ftilt behind us, and that'd probably hit, but i tend to wavedash away from their crossover if i can't get the grab, because i haven't developed my PS jab yet.

playing PP has made me rather cynical about ganons options from a pure "what can i do" stage. he gives me fair things to think about, but it all just feels fake in the end.

 

[KirbyKaze]

KirbyKaze, I can grow a beard annoyingly fast. I go through razors faster than.... Well, (insert something witty here) I hate it.

I'm listening