Ripple
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Divinokage
Smash Legend
First one to shield in this matchup is in deep **** usually. If he DD camps heavily you need to stay somewhat close to a range where he can nair you so you can counter-attack him properly, you have to slowly eat his space and choose your moves more carefully rather than trying to keep up with an aggressive Falcon. Of course don't be too close either if he has the option to DD.. You need to control the center and push him close to the ledge so that he cannot DD anymore. Once in that position, it's much easier to predict his next move... He HAS to do something in that position. He will likely jump for sure.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
So apparently I know nothing about this matchup. Carry on.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well even if you know the matchup you can still get owned.. the matchup is **** or get *****, it's just that Falcon has more opportunities to do it because he's faster. lol.
Well in general I saw you were whiffing too many attacks which caused you to have very bad positioning and also predicting incorrectly when trying to guess if he's going to the platform or not. You should never attack there if he isn't there already.. I mean that you should never go on a platform if he's beside you. And also missing edgeguards = death generally, you cannot miss those.. you overshot a little too much at times.. Fair covers much better than Bair.. and you can also just use reverse uair a lot more for that. You need to stay grounded more vs Falcon and only jump if he has jumped already because Ganon doesn't really have good pressure.. the only way to pressure someone is if you hit the shield with the tip of Ftilt, Fair and maybe bair too.. those are safe and when you do hit it then you have to predict his next move.. he will generally jump in those cases... so you can delay a jab or uair/ftilt that way to stuff his next move. If you do it right away more often than not it'll just get shielded again and you won't gain anything for it and you will often get punished too... that doesnt mean you can't do it right away either.. These things are all about feeling your opponent's patterns so it's something that can't really be taught.. it's about more experience.
In those cases he doesn't jump after you hit his shield then use that opportunity to perhaps WD in and grab if he keeps shielding or you should dash away + DD to another bair/fair/ftilt if he decides to attack you OOS. He will sometimes WD OOS too, you should always try to corner him so he can't DD. You have to always maintain a space where he's threatened and where you can counter-attack. I dont think i've seen you use CC very much either.. it's very good vs Nair... sometimes you can just CC jab or grab between his nair or after nair hit.
Well in general I saw you were whiffing too many attacks which caused you to have very bad positioning and also predicting incorrectly when trying to guess if he's going to the platform or not. You should never attack there if he isn't there already.. I mean that you should never go on a platform if he's beside you. And also missing edgeguards = death generally, you cannot miss those.. you overshot a little too much at times.. Fair covers much better than Bair.. and you can also just use reverse uair a lot more for that. You need to stay grounded more vs Falcon and only jump if he has jumped already because Ganon doesn't really have good pressure.. the only way to pressure someone is if you hit the shield with the tip of Ftilt, Fair and maybe bair too.. those are safe and when you do hit it then you have to predict his next move.. he will generally jump in those cases... so you can delay a jab or uair/ftilt that way to stuff his next move. If you do it right away more often than not it'll just get shielded again and you won't gain anything for it and you will often get punished too... that doesnt mean you can't do it right away either.. These things are all about feeling your opponent's patterns so it's something that can't really be taught.. it's about more experience.
In those cases he doesn't jump after you hit his shield then use that opportunity to perhaps WD in and grab if he keeps shielding or you should dash away + DD to another bair/fair/ftilt if he decides to attack you OOS. He will sometimes WD OOS too, you should always try to corner him so he can't DD. You have to always maintain a space where he's threatened and where you can counter-attack. I dont think i've seen you use CC very much either.. it's very good vs Nair... sometimes you can just CC jab or grab between his nair or after nair hit.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Thanks kage 
Yea that was a really bad set/day for me in general. A couple days before that, I was putting in work vs ripples samus (he still beat me of course, but I was making good choices, reads, etc.) No johns, ripple ***** me.
Either way, my problem is that I'm too habitual and I know it's a problem, but I can't seem to break certain habits. Like you said, I ALWAYS jab after fair on shield even if I know I should go for a grab and then bam shield grab (because ripple is one of the few that realizes jab is unsafe on shield).
Any advice on how to break these habits or is it another experience thing?
Yea that was a really bad set/day for me in general. A couple days before that, I was putting in work vs ripples samus (he still beat me of course, but I was making good choices, reads, etc.) No johns, ripple ***** me.
Either way, my problem is that I'm too habitual and I know it's a problem, but I can't seem to break certain habits. Like you said, I ALWAYS jab after fair on shield even if I know I should go for a grab and then bam shield grab (because ripple is one of the few that realizes jab is unsafe on shield).
Any advice on how to break these habits or is it another experience thing?
Lol your falcon is funny.
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
Holy ****, so many guests.
Jockmaster
Smash Ace
Omg Ripple that moonwalk-> reverse knee for the win second match lololol
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Only watched first match.
0:10 - Doesn't matter much, but on that spawn you could have been quicker with that uair and at least temporarily pressured falcon (safely).
0:11 - Nice PS on nair. Your timing is good enough, you should know you'll get the PS and already be thinking about what you could do afterward.
0:17 - Great uthrow got you the forced platform tech, but instead of going for the given hit off reaction you predicted the roll away and fair'd for max punishment lol.
0:23 - Good idea to fair, just space it better so falcon can't get an easy grab. See how he kept shielding for the jab after he shielded your fair? You should try to thinking about things like this more and more mid-game, eventually you will be able to pick up on them automatically. In this case you could have just dash>JC grabbed his shield immediately after L-cancelling the fair (then uthrow and he either goes to the ledge/offstage or a platform for a free techchase). Orrrrrrr you can SH through him (no fastfall, shrink their shield and make them panic a bit) and space a dair so that Ganon's heel hit Falcon's back heel that is not covered by his shield (Renth special).
0:29 - Looks like you didn't DI that uair at all. That is a really good thing (provides fastest/safest way to regain control of your character and get back to the neutral game). Had you just held left after the hit though, you could have taken the ledge safely instead of teching within Falcon's reach.
0:38 - Nice hit on that uair. You could have pressured him had you pursued him immediately. You don't want to give him much space.
1:06 - Close. Had you reacted sooner you could have gotten him, or you could have given him the purple truck (down-b).
1:09 - Another good opportunity to grab the ledge and put and end to falcon's shenanigans but you missed and popped up in front of him
2:04 - I liked some of your up-B use in this match, but don't overuse it
2:15 - The dreaded dj sweetspot. A tipman spike or a dair are your only 2 options if he doesn't overshoot the dj (if he does at all, low ftilt, bair, fair, dtilt can all hit). Dair is easier to land, but uair is basically guaranteed death... I use both depending on the situation. Don't be sexy just cause you can haha. I used to have a problem with this. I saw a few other times you threw out random sexy approaches too. I know this is a friendly and all and it doesn't matter but thinking about these things will help you in the long run.
General stuff... try to DI away more when you're at low% and not really close to the ledge, work on your ground game in this matchup (mainly ftilts), stay moving and keep him guessing, but don't be flashy unnecessarily. In techchasing, think guaranteed hits over prediction when you have a choice.
Your Ganon is looking better and better!!! Lots of random manliness in this match from both of you. Time to S another B.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Ace, you are the most helpful smasher on smashboards. Thanks a lot for the tips. I haven't had time yet to re watch and analyze (so god damn busy =/), but I'm sure that will all be extremely helpful.
NOW TIME TO GO S ANOTHER B
NOW TIME TO GO S ANOTHER B
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Played amazingly today and 4 stocked a falcon. Slowly regaining faith in ganon...
On a totally unrelated side note: I almost forgot how incredible of a game chrono trigger is. If you haven't played it, I strongly recommend that you do so. That is all.
Time to T another S (figure that one out dave looool)
On a totally unrelated side note: I almost forgot how incredible of a game chrono trigger is. If you haven't played it, I strongly recommend that you do so. That is all.
Time to T another S (figure that one out dave looool)
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Hehe not like it's easy to play Ganon at high level.. or any character for that matter.. who would you really have faith with? The character or yourself?
bertbusdriver
Smash Ace
i always have faith in mario. \s
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Take another ****? lmao
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
I can't wait until you guys get to see my new tournament matches.
Got to play with Wobbles. That man is amazing. He won the tournament, Iori got 2nd, IHSB got 3rd, I got 4th.
On a more positive note, Mojo and I won teams. So that's pretty cool. We came back out of loser's to beat IHSB/Iori in GFs. Was good stuff.
No record setups
On a more positive note, Mojo and I won teams. So that's pretty cool. We came back out of loser's to beat IHSB/Iori in GFs. Was good stuff.
No record setups
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Shot, ace. Shot. Lmao good one tho.
Good **** G. Vice. I have yet to play wobbles, but would really like to eventually, seems like a lot of fun.
And kage, you could be right! Time will tell...
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
Only my Bowser matches.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Got a link? And what about linguini, did anyone capture his matches?
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Holy **** Ian! Your bowser *****! A lot of good stuff in there, can't wait to see your ganon
Linguini
Smash Master
Pretty sure most of my tournament matches were recorded. def some cool **** that went down haha
I beat shiz in winners and he beat me in losers.....great matches
I beat shiz in winners and he beat me in losers.....great matches
Linguini, me and you need to sit down and have a long talk about how to handle falco. I'm very disturbed about doing well vs people like Wobbles, IHSB, and other good smashers, and having trouble with very mediocre falcos.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Prey on their stupidity
No, really
No, really
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
gonna have to agree that the above strat is flawless.
look for dumb lasers. they are rampant.
look for dumb lasers. they are rampant.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Many average Falcos who have beaten decent players in bracket believe that Falco cannot shield pressure Captain Falcon because of stomp OOS.
This is a testament to how dumb Falcos are. It's also hilarious.
Real answer is probably uair. Linguini seems to like that move a lot and it was really irritating when I played him at APEX in friendlies until I stared disrespecting it by bairing and f-tilting a lot wildly and without aim.
I also think bair is useful so long as you can avoid the laser when you're wavelanding into it. I don't think fair is the way to go in this one but then again I never do anyway.
On punishment I think you need to limit Falco's tech options so you can ensure your tech chases easier. That's probably a positional manipulation dealio so experiment with holding different spacings and see if you can find a way to make illegitimate death combos come true.
Crouch > jab is still good vs lasers. Linguini has some really sick shield tricks vs spacies too but I dunno if I should be divulging trade secrets.
This is a testament to how dumb Falcos are. It's also hilarious.
Real answer is probably uair. Linguini seems to like that move a lot and it was really irritating when I played him at APEX in friendlies until I stared disrespecting it by bairing and f-tilting a lot wildly and without aim.
I also think bair is useful so long as you can avoid the laser when you're wavelanding into it. I don't think fair is the way to go in this one but then again I never do anyway.
On punishment I think you need to limit Falco's tech options so you can ensure your tech chases easier. That's probably a positional manipulation dealio so experiment with holding different spacings and see if you can find a way to make illegitimate death combos come true.
Crouch > jab is still good vs lasers. Linguini has some really sick shield tricks vs spacies too but I dunno if I should be divulging trade secrets.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Even if you do, its not like many people can use it effectively. lol.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Maybe. But I don't really like Ganons because Ace won't sleep with me so I'm gonna be bitter and not share.
Ace IS an extremely attractive male. Surely there are other Ganon mains who strike your fancy?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
At the risk of being ostracized by the Peach boards, I had a thing for Kage a long time ago. He seemed beefy and laid-back. And a bit of a comic relief guy. I was into that.
Renth
Smash Hero
Wow, I told you that you beautiful and I wanted to take you home AND YOU WANT TO SLEEP WITH ACE??
IM DONE
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Ace had a swagtastic beard when I met him and thick arms. I got naughty thoughts.
But Renth, we can still make it work baby <3
But Renth, we can still make it work baby <3
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
I have thick arms and my beard is being developed.
sup
sup
...I work out. My arms are thick...
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Holy **** I thought I was on the peach boards for a second there
On a more ganon related note: what do you guys think of this, when your opponent is DDing and obviously trying to bait a fair so they can grab you, you jump toward them, perfect waveland into ftilt. It has more range than fair and can lead into grab at low percents/certain DI.
I've never seen it done before at high level, but I know it can be pretty legit when I've used it as long as I don't make it a habit.
On a more ganon related note: what do you guys think of this, when your opponent is DDing and obviously trying to bait a fair so they can grab you, you jump toward them, perfect waveland into ftilt. It has more range than fair and can lead into grab at low percents/certain DI.
I've never seen it done before at high level, but I know it can be pretty legit when I've used it as long as I don't make it a habit.
HoChiMinhTrail
Smash Master
God what is going on in this thread...... ****ing kirbykaze..
on another note, slippy looks hilarious in my avatar. if he is in the new smash I'm gonna play the **** outta him (yes i know his ***** *** won't be in it).
on another note, slippy looks hilarious in my avatar. if he is in the new smash I'm gonna play the **** outta him (yes i know his ***** *** won't be in it).
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I won't tell anyone. Although I shouldn't even be in here anyways.
I thought that was Frog from Chrono Trigger...oops.