Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tm]

oh yeah bliu. didn't know who you were, if I did I would have friendlied you. Next time!

if anyone wants to help a poor ganon improve, critique pls
video quality is meh, sorry (the pc it was recorded on is pretty bad and it was streaming)
http://www.twitch.tv/superduperlous/b/335256330
8:05, 20:55, 28:15

 

[bliu12]

yeah def next time

 

[Renth]

mundungu uses fox. he's not a true ganondorf main until he puts away the animals.

I use falco. am I not a true main

 

[Divinokage]

I use every character now.. Im not a true main anymore.. =P

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Bushman/Magus aren't really into Melee Ganondorf right now, and I assumed you were a Mewtwo main, BlackGold. How come I haven't seen you in any result threads with Ganondorf?

I don't consider Trail a Ganondorf main.

This is the only tournament I've been to where Character usage for pools was given http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=326764

I used Ganon and Mewtwo equally at every tournament I've been to.

 

[Ripple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb9Q_iyFlA0&feature=youtu.be

me vs. pseudo

critique him

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb9Q_iyFlA0&feature=youtu.be

me vs. pseudo

critique him

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[PseudoTurtle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb9Q_iyFlA0&feature=youtu.be

me vs. pseudo

critique him

my lack of tech skills and speed in this set was atrocious, as I remember it. Other than that, I feel as though I played... ok

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I use falco. am I not a true main

no you don't. you dabble in him.

but you don't use him, or else he'd be one of your tournament characters/someone you resort to often.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

no you don't. you dabble in him.

but you don't use him, or else he'd be one of your tournament characters/someone you resort to often.

If that is the case, I may just resort to being a dual main. I just don't have faith in my ganon. I obviously think that he is tournament viable (look at kage and linguini, making top 10 in nationals) but maybe he just doesn't fit my style. And I'm still really bad at this game lol

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

that post made me more sad than i think it should have.

 

[-ACE-]

All you need is Ganon.

 

[tm]

You're better than I am, pseudo. Ian, my advice is to not get sad about people feeling bad about playing ganon, and posting badass stuff like your reply to me a few pages ago.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Man, I actually played extremely well that set. Almost monster combo at 9:43! If my bair had hit...

And thanks for the props tmtmny. When I watch myself on video, I actually look pretty solid. I guess I just fall into Ripple's traps very easily and make a lot of dumb decisions. Like why the **** do I keep trying to drop zone roy's recovery lmfao it worked like once out of ten times and I died for it every other time haha.

If I can get my speed better and not make those little tech skill **** ups happen as often (ie unintentionally jumping from the ledge when I mean to edge guard with a ledge hop uair, unintentionally spot dodging, successfully pivoting grabs and jabs, etc.) I think I can be pretty solid.

Another question: I had no way of getting away from ripple (this happens with every single character of his) when I was near the ledge. The only thing I can think of doing is WDing back to the ledge and trying to recover from there. Any advice?

And don't be sad, Ian. I'm giving it another couple months with the big man before I take up another character even as a secondary

 

[Divinokage]

Grab the ledge vs Roy = gg.

Here are pretty much most options from the ledge.

Keep invincibility on ledge, let go and jump back on.
Ledgehop uair
Ledgehop jab
Ledgehop Ftilt (Remember the angles too sometimes)
Ledgehop then jump to uair (If you predict an attack from above)
Ledgehop, then jump Dair (Predicting an horizontal attack if they are stupid)
Ledgehop, delay down-B. (If he went for a grab there, the grab will whiff and it will generally send him off-stage reversed. lol... though I normally do this on reaction.)

RLD, go back to the edge again, refresh invincibility, WD in or RLD again idk.. lol.. roll.. jump to the platform with more WDs. (Those mixups are without moves, it's just to make you gain center again and avoid attacks.) Look where he is and look how he can cut you down, you have to predict where he's going.. make him miss.

RLD Fair, Dair.

WD in Jab, ftilt, uair, Dair.. again depending on positioning.
WD in to roll goes VERY far into the stage.. I generally do this when he already committed an attack close to the ledge.
WD in Bair if he overcommitted
WD in Side-B

It's really hard to explain how to predict or react to the opponent but that's basically your options.

 

[G. Vice]

So Wobbles is coming to an Arkansas tourney next weekend, and I finally get to meet and play him. Me and IHSB are probably gonna team, so maybe GF's will be G.Vice/IHSB vs Wobbles/ ____ ?

Very excited

 

[G. Vice]

I can't watch a whole lot of that...but from what I am seeing is you are attacking where he "is" way too much. Even after he's gone you're bair-ing where he was when you left the ground. Ganon doesn't have that luxury, and unless you intentionally space around a move, or you know he's gonna whiff because you baited an aerial etc- you have to attack where he is "going to be" at.

Ganon is about baits, situationally spacing and placing the opponent in spots where you want them to be not hitting them where they stand.

Also DI.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Also DI.

Ohhh yes. I can't seem to do this for the life of me, but I'm working at it.

And I'm trying to break the "hit him where he is" habit. I didn't get to play any fast fallers or his dk, but I'm getting a lot better at jab>jump> fair if he misses tech/waveland back and grab or ftilt (kage does this a lot) if he techs behind, etc.

And kage, that is a really good list. Do I get punished from the ledge that often? Usually waveland>jab is a really safe option if you use your invincibility frames correctly.

 

[Dorsey]

the set was determined on the edge / off the ledge, for the most part(lack of this also). ganon is easy to edge guard but roy should be looking just as easy if not easier.

 

[dERO!]

quick question guys, when do you choose to play on reaction or prediction when it comes to tech chase ?

 

[Divinokage]

Ohhh yes. I can't seem to do this for the life of me, but I'm working at it.

And I'm trying to break the "hit him where he is" habit. I didn't get to play any fast fallers or his dk, but I'm getting a lot better at jab>jump> fair if he misses tech/waveland back and grab or ftilt (kage does this a lot) if he techs behind, etc.

And kage, that is a really good list. Do I get punished from the ledge that often? Usually waveland>jab is a really safe option if you use your invincibility frames correctly.

Oh I thought that's what you meant when you said you were punished a lot when close to the ledge. In that case, then ya go to the ledge and mixup your recoveries.. You can also Fair off-stage and grab the ledge safely if you hit his shield... it works if you whiff too.. I saw Linguini do that one a lot.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Oh I thought that's what you meant when you said you were punished a lot when close to the ledge. In that case, then ya go to the ledge and mixup your recoveries.. You can also Fair off-stage and grab the ledge safely if you hit his shield... it works if you whiff too.. I saw Linguini do that one a lot.

Oh I do that one all the time vs fox and falcon. I don't like to do it vs marth (or anyone with bigger hitboxes than ganon) tho because if they attack you through your fair, ganon's recovery is such **** that you lose your stock. Thanks tho kage, so the answer is go back to the ledge haha.

Oh and dero, I do it almost solely on prediction, unless they're likely to miss a tech or tech on a platform, in which case I wait and try to float around and cover multiple options.

Lol I know roy should be easy to edge guard. Ledge hop uair. Invincibility frames and eddie spike. But for some reason I can't get that through my head. If they aren't playing ganon, falcon, or falco, they will most likely get back on stage.

 

[Divinokage]

Then you should focus on mastering your precision with reverse uair no matter the situation (for experimentation).. that way it trains your timing on every recovery possible pretty much, if you can land it all the time then the opponent will die.. and also you'll then be able to use any move you want to edgeguard off-stage. Reverse uair is probably the best edgeguard vs spacies too.

 

[-ACE-]

quick question guys, when do you choose to play on reaction or prediction when it comes to tech chase ?

You have to guess sometimes, like if you dthrow fox at 0% at fd, the only way to punish him if he DI's away and techrolls away is to dash immediately after the dthrow (before he techs) and SHFFL a fair. This is a good guess to take sometimes; if the tech roll away is going to put them near the edge, covering that option lands you and edgeguard/ko opporunity. Your average opponent fears rolling towards ganon (which they should). You need to be good at punishing tech in place, punishing the rolls are too easy. Focus on your opponent's teching habits and don't choke grab opportunities.

Use uthrow, nair (first hitbox), etc. to get them on a platform and you can tech chase off reaction (uair mostly). Let me just stress how awesome guaranteed hits are for Ganon. If you're in their head and you think you can predict, go for the dair, fair, follow up grab, whatever.

You can cover several options at once, like AC a bair to punish tech in place, but he rolls through you instead, you get a free grab.

I don't know if you've seen this thread...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256382

:ganonmelee:

 

[tm]

I forgot about that thread... good stuff ACE. extremely helpful

 

[Linguini]

Hopefully going to a tourney next weekend....gotta start wiping the rust off my ganon!

In regards to reaction vs prediction, with ganon its a lot more prediction based than say, falco or fox. When you are close to ledges or on platforms you can react if you know which options are covered.

Thankfully people seem to **** up their techs against ganon lol, and they pay the price with the pawnch

 

[G. Vice]

Guini back in it

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Record dat ****! I need my ganon fix, last I saw of you was apex

 

[dERO!]

thanks guys, that's pretty much what I thought, I was told a real solid ganon around here only relies on reaction, wondered if that was the case for you guys gonna experiment that tonight

 

[Jockmaster]

Ok so how does Ganon deal with super aggro Falcons? I for the life of me cannot beat these mother****ers.

I just feel like Im getting a nair to the face before I can do anything (except late uair, but I can't only use that). How do I slow him down? Do I just have to rely on zoning?

 

[Divinokage]

thanks guys, that's pretty much what I thought, I was told a real solid ganon around here only relies on reaction, wondered if that was the case for you guys gonna experiment that tonight

Im generally very reactive and instinctual, yes.

 

[odinNJ]

Whenever i see ganon running i think of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PVrnlCvN6U

about 40 seconds in

 

[Divinokage]

Ok so how does Ganon deal with super aggro Falcons? I for the life of me cannot beat these mother****ers.

I just feel like Im getting a nair to the face before I can do anything (except late uair, but I can't only use that). How do I slow him down? Do I just have to rely on zoning?

If they are fast, you generally have to be equally fast with your moves.. Sure you don't have the mobility but your jab, ftilt, and uair/bair.. are generally your friend as you can pretty much throw it out almost the same speed as Falcon. You have to be able to keep up with him... you have to try to call his shots as he's trying to hit you.

Your bair will beat his Nair, if you hit the tip of your Fair it can also beat Nair too. Sometimes you will definitely get hit with Nair and if that happens try to CC it to Jab or... grab if they had decided to shield after Nair. Like if he Nair going through you, you can try to DI where he was which was in front of him or inside. If he Nairs on you, then you always have 2 inputs of DI, with those things I try to input SDIs for both hits as they happen so sometimes only one will hit and from there I can apply some pressure with Jab or Ftilt.. both can stuff his jump if he is point blank range... or even max Ftilt range too.

In general against aggressive Falcon you have to counter-attack his hitboxes. I feel it's much easier to deal with these than those who DDs and waits for opportunities... because those ones play the matchup more properly I find.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ok so how does Ganon deal with super aggro Falcons? I for the life of me cannot beat these mother****ers.

I just feel like Im getting a nair to the face before I can do anything (except late uair, but I can't only use that). How do I slow him down? Do I just have to rely on zoning?

What ever kage says is probably better than what I have to say, but falcon is my best/favorite matchup. I'm like 10x better at that matchup than literally any other.

Anyway, I love fighting aggressive falcons, but hate dash dance heavy ones. You're best bet, honestly, is to play really campy. If they are that aggressive, they will approach you and you can beat every move he has with ganon's giant hitboxes. Camp with bairs, u-ftilts and uairs. Retreating fairs are good for the nair approach, but usually will end in a trade. Jab can lead into grab and then a tech chase (this is how you win the match).

Edge guarding is cake, just bair and reverse uair. Dropzoning a uair is a good way to gimp him, but make sure that they will double jump far enough from the ledge or your stock is in danger. Hope it helped.

 

[dERO!]

Dunno why, I really like trying to reverse the pressure it seems to work for me, if I camp I just get messy because of his DDs and stuff. I really like going in and not let him do his stuff, otherwise it gets ugly for me, I guess i'm not precise enough just to wait for an opportunity and seize it

 

[Linguini]

Yep we in there, but don't expect me to do anything too above average lol

Kage your style uses more reaction based on experience whereas I have less experience but use more prediction

 

[Divinokage]

It doesn't matter, just go have fun.. style on people. Youll always be a legendary Ganon.

 

[Linguini]

word. that's the plan, I strictly play this game for fun...but if people get bodied so be it lol

 

[G. Vice]

If they are fast, you generally have to be equally fast with your moves.. Sure you don't have the mobility but your jab, ftilt, and uair/bair.. are generally your friend as you can pretty much throw it out almost the same speed as Falcon. You have to be able to keep up with him... you have to try to call his shots as he's trying to hit you.

Your bair will beat his Nair, if you hit the tip of your Fair it can also beat Nair too. Sometimes you will definitely get hit with Nair and if that happens try to CC it to Jab or... grab if they had decided to shield after Nair. Like if he Nair going through you, you can try to DI where he was which was in front of him or inside. If he Nairs on you, then you always have 2 inputs of DI, with those things I try to input SDIs for both hits as they happen so sometimes only one will hit and from there I can apply some pressure with Jab or Ftilt.. both can stuff his jump if he is point blank range... or even max Ftilt range too.

In general against aggressive Falcon you have to counter-attack his hitboxes. I feel it's much easier to deal with these than those who DDs and waits for opportunities... because those ones play the matchup more properly I find.

Super aggro falcon is easy, I agree. The ones that stay outside your range and properly dash dance are the hard ones. If they are aggroing you, then you know they will be offensive, and you can select moves of Ganon's to go through and out prioritize them. Ganon definitely has tools in this matchup, especially vs Falcons that get aerial happy. F-tilt out of shield grab range is amazing, and empty hopping is invaluable. It's easy for me to forget sometimes that Ganon doesn't always have to be throwing out attacks to cover things, in fact it often covers better by NOT doing something, waiting a second, and trying to catch an aggressive player trying to hit you.

 

[tm]

Alright, so I guess i'll ask: what is your guys' advice for DD heavy / opportunity seizing falcons then?

The one I play happens to be that way. I think at this point I'm fairly predictable and he just DDs till I throw out an attack and nairs in. If I shield in time, he's on the other side of me. At that point I'll usually try to roll or reverse up+b (lol) or bair OoS, but things generally don't go well for me. Once the damage is up a little, I'm combo food. Just so I have this right, generally speaking I'll want to DI up and away right? minus the finishers obviously