Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bizzarro Flame]

just thought of something. no one expects you not to do anything after a d-air on the ground. they would expect you to grab, aerial, or whatever else. they would probably not tech.

@spider sense - yeah, that's what i do. **** down-throwing. they always tech after down-throwing. i think a d-air would work the best

 

[Geenareeno]

Haha, dair > empty sort hop > u-air reset.

 

[Divinokage]

I guess it looks cool for Ganon to have a reset but ya it doesnt cover much though.. =P I'll have to KNOW when they dont tech from that point.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

it's fine, we can read their heart and tell if they will tech or not.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Funny you guys are talking about this. I was actually just experimenting with it the other day, although nothing good really came of it. There just isn't an easy way to do this unless you are 100% sure they'll miss their tech

 

[spider_sense]

I don't think it's practical at all (unless maybe they're by the ledge or something) still good for swag points though if you manage to pull it off.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

it is really interesting to get weak uairs on standing opponents too. it puts them into a standing slide lag similar to a shine. i tend to get dash attacks out of those, but i've gotten grabs too and it just looks funny.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

chris: that's really interesting!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

So, im really bad at this game. Lol but really. I keep trying new stuff, technical fanciness, etc. but I get continuously 3 and 4 stocked, obviously this is very annoying and id like it to change. I don't really recognize patterns or anything like that besides techrolls very well either, soooooo its back to square one.

This is not me being discouraged or anything, im just asking for some advice so I can become a better player. Give me the same advice you would give a beginner. Spacing? actively try for pattern recognition?

Thanks a lot, guys. The goal of this is so that I can win a single match in pools (no, not kidding haha)

 

[Ripple]

Watch more videos of top ganons. Pause every now and then and ask yourself "what would ido next?"

You'll get better as you see what they do and what you would have done

 

[KirbyKaze]

no way falcon's knee is positive. otherwise we'd be seeing Knee on shield to grabs

Lol you must be new here.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Watch more videos of top ganons. Pause every now and then and ask yourself "what would ido next?"

You'll get better as you see what they do and what you would have done

Yea, I could see that working. It sucks tho, videos in the past have done absolutely nothing for me for some reason, but I can try to actively analyze and hopefully that should make a difference.

Thanks tho man, I'll try it out.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Get tech skill.

edit: I mean strong basic tech skill. You want to be able to do variations of all your aerials in and out of SH, FJ, off platforms, out of DJs, rising aerial, falling aerial, etc. Wavedashes at various distances, out of shield, etc. Know your grab follows and be good at JC grabbing. That kind of tech skill. Then just play against people so you can do this kind of thing in matches and make sure you learn your combos. Combos and punishment are an easy way to improve your success without having to be smarter at combat (punishment is usually the easy part of this game).

Strong basic tech skill & combo knowledge gives you heavy punishment and access to basic baiting, positioning, spacing & evasion. This should suffice vs most people at the level you're aiming for.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Get tech skill.

edit: I mean strong basic tech skill. You want to be able to do variations of all your aerials in and out of SH, FJ, off platforms, out of DJs, rising aerial, falling aerial, etc. Wavedashes at various distances, out of shield, etc. Know your grab follows and be good at JC grabbing. That kind of tech skill. Then just play against people so you can do this kind of thing in matches and make sure you learn your combos. Combos and punishment are an easy way to improve your success without having to be smarter at combat (punishment is usually the easy part of this game).

Strong basic tech skill & combo knowledge gives you heavy punishment and access to basic baiting, positioning, spacing & evasion. This should suffice vs most people at the level you're aiming for.

Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate you helping me out. Only problem is that my tech skill is actually not too bad. Probably my best asset at this point actually. I'm sure Ripple can even confirm that lol he's told me to not be too flashy with it.

basic baiting, positioning, spacing & evasion. This should suffice vs most people at the level you're aiming for.

This. This, right here. This is what I have the utmost trouble with. My spacing is meh, combo setups are ok, but my baiting and evasion are what I lack in. I always DD, but end up getting punished out of it haha.

Again, I really appreciate the help!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ganondorf, as far as I can tell (based on my experience against him) isn't very conducive for flashy movements. His stuff mostly has to deal with keeping X amount of space between himself and the opponent. In general, he wants to attack his opponent's attacks (because his moves beat theirs). The speed and flashy movement seems to come up mostly when following an opponent or when resetting the positioning to avoid being cornered or stuck somewhere (or to get a weird angle to attack the opponent if they're committed to something and you're moving around it).

Regarding dash dance... Ganon's dash dance doesn't really move him enough quickly enough for it to be an effective strategy on its own. He isn't built for it. Jump (generally fading away but other directions & combinations can work), wavelands on the floor, DJs, platform wavelands, and WD have a lot of important applications. Stuff like WD back can be a good way of setting up a dash dance grab (or similar) too, because of the unit of space that Ganon moves back. Ganon kind of has to combine his movement techniques a lot in order to get things done because he doesn't have a broken movement method (Fox, Falcon, Marth dash dance / Sheik WD back / etc) to set up most of his neutral game from. He's gotta mix and match appropriately to get ghetto versions of those broken movement forms (which often works, but it's also clearly watered down).

Other than that, combo really hard. Ganon doesn't really have legit combos like Sheik, Falco, and Marth (aside from his CG - which you should learn) but everything knocks over pretty low and he has some good launchers. And his uair beats everything (or trades favourably) when things fall on top of it. So get creative, stay under them, and hit them repeatedly. Don't be afraid to stomp or punch people that are offstage during combos or edgeguarding.

 

[Little England]

Kirbykaze is so nice with all his awesome advice :3

 

[G. Vice]

Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate you helping me out. Only problem is that my tech skill is actually not too bad. Probably my best asset at this point actually. I'm sure Ripple can even confirm that lol he's told me to not be too flashy with it.



This. This, right here. This is what I have the utmost trouble with. My spacing is meh, combo setups are ok, but my baiting and evasion are what I lack in. I always DD, but end up getting punished out of it haha.

Again, I really appreciate the help!

With ganon you'll have to trade alot. But since you're stronger than literally anyone else in melee, it's worth it. Spacing is key, and will take time and practice to get good at. Baiting is something that you get with experience as well. How long have you been playing melee?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea, KK, you're the man. Thanks a lot, everything is much appreciated.

And @g vice: idk since about february. But I didn't start training with ripple or anyone with the capacity to clear pools until about mid april. Maybe patience is just the key.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

then the only major factor would be the endurance of your determination. it seems like you are putting enough mental efforts to get better at the game and physical efforts to apply technical skills into your matches.

players like kage put a lot of mental effort while players like myself and g.vice strive to be flashy and catch our opponents off-guard with our technical prowess. i want to see a ganon main who is excellent in both fields one day.

hope to see you rise to the top soon.

 

[Divinokage]

Have you not watched what I've doing lately?

 

[G. Vice]

then the only major factor would be the endurance of your determination. it seems like you are putting enough mental efforts to get better at the game and physical efforts to apply technical skills into your matches.

players like kage put a lot of mental effort while players like myself and g.vice strive to be flashy and catch our opponents off-guard with our technical prowess. i want to see a ganon main who is excellent in both fields one day.

hope to see you rise to the top soon.

This is kinda true. I say that people like myself are 6-4 or 6.5-3.5 in terms of tech skill/ mental effort, while players like Kage are like 3-7 tech/mental. That's not to say that he can't do technical things, but the situations where a tech trick could be applied appear easier and more natural to players like myself and Bizzarro. That's not to say that we have no mental effort, but that it's just more along the lines of the natural tendencies of Kage. Situations where I might try a waveland uair off the edge for a gimp, Kage may consider repositioning himself to punish effectively the land.

Kage, you get the best results it's true. But I still think technically, though you may have the aptitude, you still fall into that safety cushion where you don't push the envelope technically. If I had your natural "basic" Ganon mentality and experience with the techy bag of tricks of mine, it could be a beautiful thing.

 

[Divinokage]

Well you kinda have to cut it off at some point, if you take too many risks then youll get owned easily since you dont want to be off-stage and miss an edgeguard just to look cool. I mean where is it needed to be technical and not? Ive been using RLD recently and sometimes I got some new punishes out of it but I mean do I have to go so far to go on a platform after RLD for example and then try some crazy move? Idk... lol.

 

[Linguini]

then the only major factor would be the endurance of your determination. it seems like you are putting enough mental efforts to get better at the game and physical efforts to apply technical skills into your matches.

players like kage put a lot of mental effort while players like myself and g.vice strive to be flashy and catch our opponents off-guard with our technical prowess. i want to see a ganon main who is excellent in both fields one day.

hope to see you rise to the top soon.

sounds like you're talking about me brah!

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

People forget about you because you're never around anymore, Emilio.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

keep being yourself kage.

if pp can teach me some smarts for my flash next year, then i might rise up and do some guiniesque things at larger tournaments.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah I actually think Linguini has a great balance of tech skill and mental ability. Kage and Spider Sense are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Random question but how many of you Ganon players partake in 420?

I'm trying to generalize whole characters based on general traits that could be made into a stereotype.

 

[MarsFool!]

Linguini, kage, chaddd, tipman, spider sense, list goes on forever kirbykaze.


The question should say how many melee players partake cause thats like 9/10 >_>

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Given that I don't know what that is, I'm going to say that I don't partake in it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Aren't you from NC? o_O

 

[RaphaelRobo]

New Zealand originally, but I live in NC now.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Look it up raph lol, I don't wanna say it publicly due to incrimination bull****.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

I think i should be at the very end of the cliff of the spectrum. I'm still try to wave-land moon-walk grab in tournament matches just to make people **** for crying out loud.

 

[Geenareeno]

Where is that post that Raph made about green greens and ganon and 420. Somebody sigged it once. Also yeah Bizzaro that **** is the sexiest thing ever.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I already asked about this? Does that mean you guys explained it to me and I forgot?

It must not have been very important then.

Green greens is a cool stage, though. Except those bombs can be kind of irritating.

 

[Renth]

good lord

I love this game.

 

[Linguini]

this ***** has to be lying....

i think my grand mother knows what 4/20 is.

i'm not even joking lol


but yeah ganon players are usually some of the most laid back/easy to chill with peeps out there, so naturally a large proportion of us like to toke it up.

smash is so much more fun that way, and I strictly play for fun.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Where is that post that Raph made about green greens and ganon and 420. Somebody sigged it once.

Hahaha dude I was legit laughing my *** off at that. I was gonna sig it myself if ACE (I think) didn't get to it first.

ACE where you at?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah pretty much all of us do except raph, i imagine.

edit: but yeah, it's as much a smash thing as it is a ganon thing, in my opinion.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its more of an everyone thing, not just a smash thing