Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

from a "how long it takes you to be done throwing this character" standpoint, i thought fox was heavy. i guess i could be wrong thought, but i thought ganon acted later after he's done throwing fox than many other characters.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

omg i wanna play so badly. ):

orlando is deeeeeeeeead

it's ****ing ridiculous how many cookie cutter marth players there are in the usa. holy **** it's annoying.

 

[Ripple]

from a "how long it takes you to be done throwing this character" standpoint, i thought fox was heavy. i guess i could be wrong thought, but i thought ganon acted later after he's done throwing fox than many other characters.

in NTSC characters act faster after throwing lighter characters as opposed to heavier characters. this influences frame advantage also depending on when they are actually thrown vs. the end of the animation

 

[Bl@ckChris]

that's what i'm referencing. i thought fox was heavy by this information. i thought bowser was heaviest, then ganon, then maybe samus or something. on the lighter side, i figured there was pichu, pikachu, ness, and things of that sort. i thought fox/falco were on the heavier side of things.

if i'm wrong i'd like confirmation from somewhere lol. it's sorta important. i get a lot of lightshields when i try to cg using z, and i figured that was the reason.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

weirdly, falco and fox are both medium weight in this regards

and yeah, dumb lightshields when I started out practicing cgs

 

[Bl@ckChris]

are they the heaviest character that ganon can attempt to cg? that may have something to do with it. also, it may just be the simple timing window of them falling fast and being just a frame too early gives the lightshield.

 

[Divinokage]

omg i wanna play so badly. ):

orlando is deeeeeeeeead

it's ****ing ridiculous how many cookie cutter marth players there are in the usa. holy **** it's annoying.

I cant wait to cut all those cookies with my Marth.

 

[Ripple]

the heaviest character you can chaingrab is probably sheik, then Roy, who is a lot lighter by comparison

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh. i guess its a good thing sheik is floaty if we act the slowest after throwing her. that's interesting. so fox probably has the tightest window, then falco, but that comes more from fall speed than weight.

i was getting the cg rather well today on spacies by the way. i think i did make something of a personal breakthrough on it. gonna keep working on the finishers. currently i'm stuck with ftilt.

 

[Ripple]

scratch that, I think you can CG DK but if not I know you can CG yoshi and link and are much heavier than sheik

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

you can cg dk.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, the heavier characters tend to only be CG-able from low to mid percent

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can CG ganon... hes what, 2nd heaviest in the game? Can you CG Bowser (#1) or Yoshi (~#3)?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, bowser and yoshi are both CG-able at lower percents cause they're floaty enough.

i still think it's funny that falcon's mix of weight and floatyness doesn't allow him to be chaingrabbed at any percent given the right DI.

edit: basically, we should be consulting: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=85582&

double edit: and after looking at the guide i definitely stand corrected. fox and falco are rather light compared to the other characters that ganon chaingrabs. gotta get used to when it ends and when that small window opens to continue these CGs.

 

[Geenareeno]

Memorize this ****, yo


Bowser --------- (4) ---- 0-72
Yoshi ------------ (2) ---- 0-36 (30+ make sure you grab his eyes before he spins around)
DK ---------------- (4) ---- 21-69
Ganon ---------- (3) ---- 0-67
Falco ------------- (5) --- 12-Death (250+)
Fox --------------- (5+) - 34-Death (250)
Ness ------------- (3) ---- 0-18 (Higher if they don't airdodge. Use dash grab for its duration)
Sheik ------------ (1) ---- 0-90 (80-90 is very tricky due to Sheik's skinny legs)
Link -------------- (3) ---- 0-74
Y Link ----------- (1) ---- 0-72 (Legs ftw)
Pichu ------------ (2) ---- 0-54 (Thank his bigass head for this one)
Pikachu --------- (1) ---- 0-37 (His tumble animation works very much in his favor to escape)
G&W ------------- (2) ---- 0-28
Marth ----------- (4) ---- 0-15
Roy -------------- (3) ---- 0-91 (Hooray legs!)

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i already had most of the memorised. all of them are high sixties or more unless you're yoshi, marth, g&w, pika, pichu, or ness.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

finisher with ganon should always be cg up to 200% then dash-attack star-ko

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

It's probably something like a 5 or 6 frame window to do three inputs. I guarantee you can't cg a lvl 3 Fox from 30-150.

correct me if i'm wrong but is lvl 3 fox the same AI as training mode fox on attack mode?

they perform the exact same DI (DI slight behind first, then DI full behind for the rest of the CG). I used training mode because magus suggested using it to perfect the DI behind option for every percentage.

If so, then I already did many 30-250 cgs already =P

 

[Renth]

Spider_Sense...

Watching him on stream vs. bela gelo, linguini, vgmaster ricky, and other great south florida players..

I think I've seen him win the past 20 games in a row. Kid is on those smash steroids tonight very entertaining.

http://www.justin.tv/bleagelo#/w/3287135760/2

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah it is Bizzaro. And I wasn't calling you out on chaingrabing, but that's good that you can do it.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Daaaayum, spidey! I see linguini taught you some of his falco tricks lol.

Good **** man, that vid of you vs. somebody's sheik was like a whole combo video.
You actually play a lot like I do (only quite a bit better), very technical and aggressive. I like it! Hope to see your ganon wrecking *****es up with kage come FC.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

fo sho G. I just feel good about being able to CG. now it's time to improve my reaction time.

 

[spider_sense]

That wasn't even my final form... :3

 

[G. Vice]

Spider_Sense...

Watching him on stream vs. bela gelo, linguini, vgmaster ricky, and other great south florida players..

I think I've seen him win the past 20 games in a row. Kid is on those smash steroids tonight very entertaining.

http://www.justin.tv/bleagelo#/w/3287135760/2

Spidey is free.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

LOL raph, *****in' about my color choice. You troll.

Im sorry you had to see that, by the way.

 

[G. Vice]

Hey Ganon mains,

I officially passed state boards for nursing. There is an official registered nurse among us. Kinda weird that a nurse chooses to play Ganondorf though...

~Zane Redmon, RN aka G.Vice, RN

 

[spider_sense]

Hey Ganon mains,

I officially passed state boards for nursing. There is an official registered nurse among us. Kinda weird that a nurse chooses to play Ganondorf though...

~Zane Redmon, RN aka G.Vice, RN

Good, so if I get shot while working on a crime scene. I know you got me right? Congratulations though I wish you more success.

 

[G. Vice]

Good, so if I get shot while working on a crime scene. I know you got me right? Congratulations though I wish you more success.

You bet I got you bro. I'll patch you up and give ya some of them good pain killin' drugs

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Congrats on becoming a registered nurse. That must have been a lot of hard work.

LOL raph, *****in' about my color choice. You troll.

Im sorry you had to see that, by the way.

Don't worry, I do that to other Ganons too. It's kind of like a rite of passage.

 

[Divinokage]

You cant give a rite of passage against the King. =)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Hmm going to a tournament tomorrow.

I guess ill try to do good things and stuff.

 

[Divinokage]

That isn't right.. You WILL do good things.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Probably. I'm still sorta hibernating my real effort for when I go to school with pp. Summer stuff is just to keep me from being bad before I get better with him.

I plan to just focus on looking at the opponent and bairing things. I feel like that could take me further than all the other stuff I've been doing in the last 2+ years.

 

[knightpraetor]

good luck wreck em

 

[Divinokage]

For me it's next week that I'm going to fight the legends one more time.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Congratulations, G. Vice! I think you should officially change your tag to G. Vice RN.

Also, good luck, warrior. Go ganon and show 'em who's boss.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Hey, all. I've been trying to coach my bro's Ganon, specifically the Ganon-Fox MU. He's practically given up hope and wants to pick up a second. Could I get any words of inspiration for him? (... Or is it hopeless after all?) Anyways, here's a link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbCLlNo8Ntk (give it maybe an hour to finish processing)

From about 0:16:00 to 1:33:00 is me playing his Ganon with my Fox. Now, granted that my Fox is pretty garbage, is there anything totally wrong with how he's playing this MU, and could someone give him any tips/hope?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hey, all. I've been trying to coach my bro's Ganon, specifically the Ganon-Fox MU. He's practically given up hope and wants to pick up a second. Could I get any words of inspiration for him? (... Or is it hopeless after all?) Anyways, here's a link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbCLlNo8Ntk (give it maybe an hour to finish processing)

From about 0:16:00 to 1:33:00 is me playing his Ganon with my Fox. Now, granted that my Fox is pretty garbage, is there anything totally wrong with how he's playing this MU, and could someone give him any tips/hope?

I haven't had the chance to look at your video yet, but after playing the matchup quite a bit lately, I've come to realize this:

1) jab>grab = ****. The more grabs you get, the more likely you are to win the match. Read ACE's tech chasing thread for follow ups, it's a really well done thread.
2) after he areals your shield with dair, he will almost always shine. I usually roll here, but there are probably better choices (gotta break the habit). If he is very slightly behind you or even "inside" you after an areal on your shield, he will shine 99% of the time. The hitbox on the shine is small enough so that you can jump out of shield and stomp him at that spacing.
3) If he nairs your shield and ends up behind you, SH bair out of shield works pretty well.
4) a quick uair will beat his nair approach if done correctly.
5) retreating fair through nair approach is awesome.
6) play a little campy against fox. Don't always approach, try to make him approach. I know this sounds a little weird, but it really works. Linguini is extremely good at this, watch this video to see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycvkk9mm9E0

Keep in mind, this is just stuff I've picked up the past couple of weeks playing Sveet's fox and I'm not that good yet, but I think that this stuff should help you out for the most part. Any more experienced ganons wanna confirm this? Or tell me that it's the most ******** thing they've ever read?

EDIT: Ok, I watched a little bit of that video and I can come up with a few pointers that may help your bro out. Most of this is basic ganon stuff tho, not so much for the MU.

You jabbed a lot. Sometimes throw in a grab because if they expect a jab, they will shield and get grabbed for it (Trail taught me this one). Also, side b can work as it is safe on shield.
Work on your DI. Fox can combo ganon so hard it's not even funny. DI the nair chains upward and DI an upthrow to the side and then try to SDI the uair.
Don't always pivot an ftilt, sometimes pivoting a jab is better.
If they have their shield going above you on a platform, don't uair. Instead, up-b (Thank you, Eddie!)
Work on your options from the ledge (ledge dash, ledge hop, RLD...). It's tough to edge pressure ganon because he can do so much from the ledge.
if he has committed to a perfectly spaced areal, side b, fsmash, and down b will pull you back a bit and give you automatic retaliation.
One thing that is taking me FOREVER to break the habit of is throwing out random areal attacks. As a rule of thumb, when an opponent expects a fair from you, he will not get hit by that fair. I know this sounds obvious and kind of stupid, but for example, if he has his shield up, try an empty hop waveland back ftilt or something. Also, literally every dash attack I saw ran into his shield lol. If one had been a grab instead, he would have been grabbed. Crouch cancel jab more.

Hope this helped. And have patience! I still suck *** at this game haha, but improving little by little.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Lost to sneak and twitch like I always do. **** fox lol.

Beat a sheik/marth and a peach. I baired them a lot. It worked.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

good **** G.Vice!!! good luck in your future endeavors.

Lost to Sillykyle's peach in winners' and losers' yesterday. Ever since losing to Armada, I have been losing to every good peach players. wtfff