Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

ganon * ...

 

[Divinokage]

Are you actually getting prideful for the fact that you guys have the slowest Ganon? ... What has the world come to? lol.

Settling for a standard.. That definitely goes against every part of me and also it's unworthy for the Dark Lord.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Actually, dj wavelands are faster and imo a little easier like raph said. But like you said it can suck getting caught out of it - its all based on the situation. Know how to do both. For example, if somebody is dash dancing mid stage (and can't hit you), then a dj waveland would be faster, so less time for them to react. But if its a little more risky, then maybe a full hop would be a better choice. Test it out and see what you find out!

Also, gliffie: I wouldn't notice if the L and X buttons were completely removed from the controller haha.

Spidey: raph and I are at least tied for slowest ganon. Ill record my next smash session with sveets crew and we can compete for title of worst active ganon!!! Although im still improving mad quick - I may even be able to win a single tournament match soon! ...lol

From what I saw of your Ganon on Sveet's stream (I had a really bad connection, so couldn't see much), your Ganon moves a lot more quickly than mine. Plus, I haven't played anyone seriously in 3 months, so I'm completely out of practice. I've played scrubs, but I don't even use my Kirby against those guys (My Kirby does just as well in tournament as my Ganon does, and slightly better in friendlies. It's frustrating, because I main Ganon, and he's the character I work on, not Kirby). I also don't think when I'm playing them, because they aren't worth the effort. But I suppose some practice was better than none, since it kept my techskill fresh.

On the other hand, I'll be starting at university in about a month, and there are some pretty good Brawl players there, including one of the best in the state (Stingers, if you're reading this, although I have no idea why you would be, by the end of the year my Ganon's going to be destroying you in Melee, my Ganon/ROB will be beating you in PM, and my Wolf will be annihilating you in Brawl. Although after playing ROB in PM, I'm thinking of switching to him in Brawl). So I should get some good practice. Plus, Kevbo's moving to Greensboro, so he's only going to be an hour away, which means I might get more regular practice.

EDIT: KirbyKaze, since I noticed you're reading this, you had great commentary at Impulse. I really enjoyed listening to it.

EDIT2: Kage, we're all Lords, and this hyrule isn't big enough for all of us. Until we split it into a few more timelines. Until then, we need to have soem sort of Ganondorf hierarchy. The slowest Ganon is on the bottom of the food chain, and would go great with some wasabi.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Are you actually getting prideful for the fact that you guys have the slowest Ganon? ... What has the world come to? lol.

Settling for a standard.. That definitely goes against every part of me and also it's unworthy for the Dark Lord.

if you took me seriously

i'm hurt

kingnoob, you can't even spell "ganon" anymore. this is further proof that you no longer even have a ganondorf, you TRAITOR. gtfo. </3333333333333

 

[Divinokage]

I did not but my statement still stands. =) Also, Ganon is definitely a character worthy enough to win the biggest tournaments in the world... in teams. =P You just need to raise your level and then find a sick partner that can generally land the first hits and also is able to save you from tough situations often. Those situations like getting sandwiched in between spacies.. I hate this. lol.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

What's going on in this topic? How did we get this many posts so quickly? Does the word "slow" cause us to post fast, or something?

 

[Divinokage]

Well we do want speed, that's why you slip and slide everywhere. lol. Also, RLDs ftw. Taking in every bit of knowledge does help a lot once you practiced it enough where you make it your own. Change knowledge into wisdom, very important!

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Have you been using RLDs much? To be honest, while I don't really have any trouble doing them, I never really use them, so I'm curious as to how you've implemented them in your play.

Most of my learning at the moment is focused on spacing and reads. Fortunately, at least those are things you can practice with against scrubs. They're just really really easy to space against, and really really easy to read. They wouldn't have been when I was worse, though. I kind of quit the whole tech skill thing as soon as I found out how to space and read. I can WD, I can L-cancel, I can waveland, I can ledgedash, I can platformdash, I can shield drop, and I can PS about 10-20% of the time. That's enough for me, and I'd rather focus on playing smart. It's a lot more fun.

 

[G. Vice]

my Gabon is the wavelandiest

Doubtful

 

[Divinokage]

How I use it? Well it's quite simply one more tool to use in order to have a chance to gain back stage control. You can use it as a fake out to bait the opponent to come close to the ledge, that's where you can pretty much waveland from the ledge past him + roll if you want.. it goes REALLY far lol. Also it's a good idea to use it if you can predict an incoming attack, it will allow you to stomp them or land an aerial while their attacks will whiff as you were still invincible while fading back from the waveland back. It's also possible to change the waveland length which I find is important too to make slight adjustments to your spacing in between you and your opponent. You definitely do not always just RLD and attack right away since that will make you predictable. As a good example, you can use the RLD from the ledge and then go back on the ledge while keeping your invincibility and then when you think they will become impatient then you can either get a free get up on the stage which is always good in itself or you'll more likely get a hit off it. Even RLD to fade fair going off-stage is also safe since as soon as you land the fair even if it's shielded you will catch the ledge immediately after the Fair animation is complete.

As for the adjusting your wavelanding length, it can make the difference in between you getting hit or them getting counter-attacked, keep that in mind.

Umm.. let's see here.. you can get fancy and do that stuff to edgeguard but I found that it's rather hard to use for that purpose lol.. I would whiff a lot and then die for it lmao.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That was pretty useful, thanks. I'll make sure I try some of that next time I play people. Fortunately it's all stuff I'm technically able to do.

Adjusting waveland length is something I can do, but my spacing isn't good enough yet to actually be good at it. I've seen how useful it is, though. It's really something I should be working on. Unfortunately, spacing that correctly depends a lot on the circumstance, and there's only so much I can learn from videos.

 

[Divinokage]

That was pretty useful, thanks. I'll make sure I try some of that next time I play people. Fortunately it's all stuff I'm technically able to do.

Adjusting waveland length is something I can do, but my spacing isn't good enough yet to actually be good at it. I've seen how useful it is, though. It's really something I should be working on. Unfortunately, spacing that correctly depends a lot on the circumstance, and there's only so much I can learn from videos.

It's pretty much when you have mastered spacing then the way you'll see how tools are meant to work or how you want to use them should be a lot more clear. That means you have to understand how EVERY hitbox interact with each other and how you can maneuver behind them or over them with a chosen move that you think will work. Just like if you think Falcon will knee, you can jump over it and punch him for example or you can down-B to counter it. (If it trades, you miss timed it) It's pretty much how I'm able to be creative, I use all of my understanding of the hitboxes and use it to my advantage. It's also part why I'm able to surprise my opponents very often. And also, you obviously have to understand the hitboxes themselves and also the speed of every character to be able to adjust your spacing according to their range of motion. You have to also know how to keep your moves safe because hitting the shield too closely is pretty much always unsafe and you will get punished hard for it.

I think that's what I've got for this.

Edit: My ideas are a bit messy i think, tell me if you need me to be more clear or more specific about something.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yeah, thanks a lot. That's a similar understanding of the game to what I'm currently working on having. I watch videos to get an idea of how each hitbox works, and the different options that character has. Then I mess around a bit with each character, so I get first hand experience with their hitboxes, although it's not the same as someone who can actual play that character.

So, while I'm working on my understanding of hitboxes (It's the main thing I'm focusing on, because then I'll know how to space well, and it's a lot of fun to work on this), I still have a long way to go until I'm good at it. I've definitely seen an improvement, though. In general, I do a much better job capitalizing on the size of my hitboxes and the speed of my moves, and spacing around them. This is all relative to how good I used to be, though. I'm sure you could easily 4stock me. One day, though, I'll prove that purple is a way better color than green.

I feel like, if I play my best, I should be able to take at least 1 stock off PP's Ganon. I'm looking forward to finding out whether or not that's true at the next tournament we're both at. I do think I can definitely take at least 1 stock off him in Kirby dittos, though. I was able to do it last time, and while I don't think he was trying (either that, or his Kirby's terrible), I still think I can get a stock off it.

I might be able to get my first win at the next tournament I'm at, too. The last one I went to I had no idea what spacing or reads were, and I came close to winning a match. If I knew then what I know now, I probably could have won it. I did win some friendlies, though. On the other hand, I kind of like having a perfect tournament record, and getting a win would ruin that.

EDIT: I don't think your ideas are messy at all, I'm able to follow them really easily. Maybe that's just me, though.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya after all that and working on things you need to work on, the rest is a lot of experience.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

pfft, my dude FakeTestudines would probably have won that entire amateur bracket. don't kid. ;]

Not impossible actually lol. I get pretty nervous in a tournament setting and my pool has always been stacked - last one was alcheato, andale, sveet, trail, and some other kid who has been playing for a couple years and plays marth, my least favorite matchup haha. I know, JOHNS, but tell me that pool isn't stacked as ****. I really am improving very quickly, hopefully enough to give you a challenge when you come to chicago, Ian!

RLDs ftw.!

You have no idea how happy this makes me, Kage
Also, good **** on explaining some of the things you can do with it, man. Jeez, I suggest that you try out a new technique and then you change it up and make it 1,000,000X better. Typical awesomeness.

But it is an incredible edge guard against marth. Look at my video again and watch for the part where RockCrock uses it. I've actually used that with success in that particular situation (correct spacing where it cuts through all of marth's options) against kels and sveet, and probably others a few times, and it has worked very well. Something to try out?

 

[Divinokage]

Sure I'll keep it in mind. =P If you have new techniques for Ganon, please do tell. =D I'm not someone that is initially creative with stuff, I'm more like I can replicate exactly what the others are doing with my own twists. I guess that's why my name is Shadow without even knowing it, my best ability is to remember and copy exactly what I've seen and understand it. I practice these things a million times.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

One more thing: Raph or Kage, where did you find the latest IMPULSE vids? I wanna see more kage. There is almost nothing on youtube.

 

[Divinokage]

http://fr.twitch.tv/eschamptv/b/323224190 For now I guess you can find stuff in this. I haven't played any singles on the stream though, they have been recorded. You could watch some sick doubles and crews on this though. =P

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Canada did pretty well in crews.

Also, you have to watch Vudujin's team vs M2k/Toph. I'm not going to spoil anything, but it was amazing. It's at 6:26:50.

Kage/Hbox were awesome in doubles. That last set against PP/Mango was extremely close, it really could have gone either way.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

If you have new techniques for Ganon, please do tell.

Hmm, well I know that from the ledge, you can quickly let go, DJ uair and still regrab the ledge if you do it quickly enough. I like to use the joystick to DJ and do the uair for speed purposes. Im not really sure if it would be thaaaat useful, but I've used it once that I can remember and sometimes (rarely) it can lead into a ledge drop uair for the kill, according to Tipman.

Keep it in mind, maybe you can use it if you think fox/falco will illusion just above the edge. It's pretty safe, seeing as you regrab the ledge afterwards. Who knows? Test it out.

And good stuff at Impulse. Hbox is an incredible teammate. And that crew battle was siiiiiick. Luigi's first 3 stocks just kind of... vanished lol. He adapted quite well tho.

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

I remember a couple years back a friend showed me an autojab with ganon. You had to have the correct tilt and pitch on the analog stick then just hold A. That sound familiar to anyone or am I just hallucinating?

Ah, google saved my conversation
me: yo what was that thing with ganon where you do a ftilt to auto jabs?
9:28 PM scaryforeskin: hold very slightly above the 4 oclock control stick groove or 7 oclcok er 8*
9:29 PM but you have to hold it behind your character

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm, well I know that from the ledge, you can quickly let go, DJ uair and still regrab the ledge if you do it quickly enough. I like to use the joystick to DJ and do the uair for speed purposes. Im not really sure if it would be thaaaat useful, but I've used it once that I can remember and sometimes (rarely) it can lead into a ledge drop uair for the kill, according to Tipman.

Keep it in mind, maybe you can use it if you think fox/falco will illusion just above the edge. It's pretty safe, seeing as you regrab the ledge afterwards. Who knows? Test it out.

And good stuff at Impulse. Hbox is an incredible teammate. And that crew battle was siiiiiick. Luigi's first 3 stocks just kind of... vanished lol. He adapted quite well tho.

Uair regrab huh? Hmm.. ya that seems like it could be good though one uair is generally enough if they decided to up-b or side-b above the ledge. If they had to recover from that far to begin with their mid-high %, they should die. =P

In doubles, I did not think we were going to put in work vs PP + Mango but ya.. I guess with the right partner, it's proof enough I can take on any team so there's no need to be afraid anymore. I love epic battles.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Omfg you guys and your walls of text.

 

[-ACE-]

Bl@ckChris is the man. Need more melee soon, yesterday was fun as ****. Gotta shake off dat rust!

 

[Divinokage]

Its possible to be rusty with Ganon?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Word up. Nc Ganondorfs needa represent.

Kage I think he means rusty as a player.

 

[-ACE-]

Yes, but not as much as most characters. I've kept up my skill quite well actually, my secondaries have seen more improvement than my dorf though.

edit: Ian, correct on both. lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

I can confirm the above post.

ACE we should play again today. last night was good fun.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah it's easy to keep up skill when basics are your strongest point lmao. Yeah lets play any time dood. Can't wait for my shipment today

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Can't wait for my shipment today

man, you other ganondorf mains are so lucky, not being in committed relationships and stuff with people that aren't open minded about that.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Yeah it's easy to keep up skill when basics are your strongest point lmao. Yeah lets play any time dood. Can't wait for my shipment today

word. i'ma shower, look alive, maybe get something to eat, and contact you once i'm done with all that. so maybe i'll see you around noon-1?

man, you other ganondorf mains are so lucky, not being in committed relationships and stuff with people that aren't open minded about that.

Unfortunate. Thank goodness for committed relationships with people that don't mind.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah that sounds good chris. That sucks Ian, I've been there lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol relax, I was just nagging. =P That shipment though! It works brilliance even in tournaments.

 

[-ACE-]

You get any matches recorded from impulse kage? what channel are those vids going up on, anyone know?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

the stream is recorded at http://www.twitch.tv/eschamptv

the most recent video, about a hour and change, starts at m2k vs mango and goes from there. Idk if kage was on stream any earlier than that, as i haven't gone back and watched things that i missed.

 

[Divinokage]

I played some doubles on stream vs Mango + PP had a total of 13 games vs them in that tournament. Other doubles matches were there too. I also recorded me vs Vwins/Sfat/raynex? And there's also crew battle on the stream which was pretty sweet overall I think.. it was hype! I think that's it for that.

 

[-ACE-]

Cool. Thanks, look forward to checking it

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Can't wait for my shipment today

LOOOOOOOL brilliant. Very clever.

And if anyone wouldn't mind linking the times to the important parts of the stream (I.e. kage, m2k, pp and mango, etc.), I would be VERY appreciative of that. I don't have 15 hours of down time haha, thanks in advance.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B48ZRlirw4&feature=g-all-u vs SFAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7zuLIYP3Ew&feature=relmfu vs Raynex

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I never thought that 5 years later, I'd be teaming with one of the few people that inspired me to pick up the controller for the first time.

Expect some double Ganondorf/double Donkey Kong team pwnage from Tipped Off 8.

On the other hand, to maximise my playing experience, anyone have special, out of the ordinary tips for double Ganondorf?