Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Geenareeno]

Side-b shouldn't really work ever, unless you do a hella good job of spacing it, or hard read a teach chase. Make sure you guys get some Ganon dittos recorded. What a ****ing good matchup.

 

[Divinokage]

Shouldn't work? You use it just before your opponent is trying to L-cancel their aerial and it will hit 100%.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Has Zelda committed to a kick? Space side-B into combo lol. Just remember you can time a side-B to punish ANY aerial if you time it right.

I feel like I was too aggressive with this when playing Yay's Falcon. A lot of the time I thought he was about to aerial, and went in with a sideB, but then he just stayed there and comboed me for it.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya that's why you don't really use it unless you can catch them committing first.. if you have to be wary of double jumps and empty jumps.. so in this case if they do jump when they are scared of your side-B then you can aerial them as they are jumping. It's one way to do it.

 

[G. Vice]

Side-b shouldn't really work ever, unless you do a hella good job of spacing it, or hard read a teach chase. Make sure you guys get some Ganon dittos recorded. What a ****ing good matchup.

Idk man, it tends to work for me alot. The way I see it, is that sometimes it just feels like the right move to do, and it works. Especially when you feel that awkwardness when you think someone is fixing to do an aerial at you. Also, when you stomp someone at a low percent, it's great to scoop them up, and always leads to another aerial.

You can't tell me that side B isn't an amazing move...

 

[PseudoTurtle]

It can also be a good tech chase on fast fallers if you do it right. I have a buddy whose teching pattern is literally impossible to predict and that is a good move to use that covers 3/4 options (according to aces thread).

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Every time I hear the name Ace I think of this http://youtu.be/gXYfnWRp1Q0

 

[Geenareeno]

Okay I was being too general, but what I meant is that during the neutral game it's sort of high risk medium reward and if your opponent is spacing properly it won't work. Also Kage what you said about doing it while they l-cancel, that's pretty smart, but it's not often that someone just whiffs an aerial in your face.

 

[Divinokage]

Yes I understand that which is why the side-B itself can give you some extra spacing instantly because of the pull back animation of the move which will make them automatically whiff if they didn't space it properly as to predict this move.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ok guys, drumroll please... I just beat ripple's roy... like once or twice out of way too many! Woooo!

...Then he molested me with literally every other character. Including ness and bowser. Lol still an accomplishment in my book

 

[Superspright]

Has Zelda committed to a kick? Space side-B into combo lol. Just remember you can time a side-B to punish ANY aerial if you time it right.

Not float-cancelled aerials though. Or fox's aerials really [hello shine!]. 15 frame start up for the side-b--then it hits on frame 1 after the contact box hits and lasts until frame 4 i believe.

Side-b is awesome out of powershield when people do laggy crossovers or firebird/firefox.

 

[Divinokage]

Not float-cancelled aerials though. Or fox's aerials really [hello shine!]. 15 frame start up for the side-b--then it hits on frame 1 after the contact box hits and lasts until frame 4 i believe.

Side-b is awesome out of powershield when people do laggy crossovers or firebird/firefox.

No no I'm not sure you get it. As soon as they USE an aerial you can use side-B even before shine comes out.

 

[Superspright]

Why would I use side-b if they didn't space the aerial right in the first place? Why not...dair? :D

I thought we were talking about using the leanback to beat their spacing. It certainly doesn't tie with anything.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Why would I use side-b if they didn't space the aerial right in the first place? Why not...dair? :D

I thought we were talking about using the leanback to beat their spacing. It certainly doesn't tie with anything.

What Kage is trying to say is that the startup time on the side-b gives you just enough space to make you avoid your opponent's attack, and then immediately retaliate. It works very, very well on marth. Try it next time you play a marth who is SHFFLing with very good spacing. The side-b will space you just out of their range and give you an immediate retaliation, possibly followed by an areal or grab. You definitely would not have time to dair in this case.

 

[Divinokage]

Why would I use side-b if they didn't space the aerial right in the first place? Why not...dair? :D

I thought we were talking about using the leanback to beat their spacing. It certainly doesn't tie with anything.

It's a unique counter attack which all other moves don't allow you to do in time or doesn't have the required hitbox to beat certain aerials.

 

[Ripple]

Hey Pseudo, here are your games for critique

vs. Marth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC1VINmOdi8&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=5&feature=plcp

vs. Jiggs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=surDPF-xUOQ&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=4&feature=plcp

vs Falco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5S4aRVuzZU&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=2&feature=plcp

vs. Roy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqIgJm49skg&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=3&feature=plcp

vs. pika&sheik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APMajKlPSPA&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=1&feature=plcp

special

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audN...DvjVQa1PpcFNc9eiUU4tdrffruufG7GZZXF7HRmEfwxc=

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Cant really see whats going on, but it seems like ur learning a lot!

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I can't really see either, but that was a cool combo. It's good you have someone as good as Ripple to practice with.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH THE ONE TITLED SPECIAL... at least watch the first combo.

No, seriously. Let me brag a little bit here lol. Although let it be known that Ripple had about 50 of those on me that day for every one that I did hahaha. But thank you ripple! Much is appreciated for you practicing with me. I'm playing the best I ever have so far. Anyway, ganons... Cheer us on at our next tournament this coming weekend!

RIPPLE2GUD.

Also at Sveet: yes I am learning tons here, better watch out when I come home for break. Can't wait to play you and your crew.

At raphael: Yea, it's really good to have some legitimate practice. Especially since he plays almost every character. Man, you're gonna become good FAST when you play peepee.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I've played PP a couple times at locals, both in Kirby dittos and Ganon dittos. I re-evaluate my game and learn a lot each time. I can still do that when playing the players that aren't anywhere near as good as PP, but can easily 4stock me, but I don't learn quite as much. A main thing I need to work on is reads and DI. To help with reads, I'm playing more Brawl, since there's more emphasis on them. I already pulled off some cool reads v Stingers at the last NCSU. As for the DI, it's pretty hard to practice when your friends can't even hit you.

But yeah, legitimate experience is helpful. Especially for understanding matchups. Almost all of my matchup knowledge is based on my own characters (e.g. my Falco, my Fox, my Falcon, my Sheik, my Marth, etc), and while they're good enough to beat my friends, I could 4stock. Today my Ganon 3stocked my friends in a 2v1. I was a bit disappointed, but it makes sense given that I really wasn't paying attention to the game and was thinking about polar graphing.

Also, Chris is going to become really good once he moves in with PP. Really really good. It makes me want to go to UNCG.

 

[Divinokage]

The important part here is.. you did it once now the next times should technically be easier to do. =P If it took 1/50 matches to do that reduce that by half, and then keep it up.

Robo, well your goal is to make them scared of you just so that it's not easy to simply own Ganon for free.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Who am I supposed to make scared of me? My opponents? I can give that a try, I already have TP Ganon's facial hair.

 

[Divinokage]

Even outside the game, ya, make them feel the pressure.. make them nervous before they play you. lol.

 

[Jeyfar]

Ok guys, drumroll please... I just beat ripple's roy... like once or twice out of way too many! Woooo!

...Then he molested me with literally every other character. Including ness and bowser. Lol still an accomplishment in my book

I LOLed so hard

 

[RaphaelRobo]

One thing I thought was interesting was that during some games today, I was juggling a guy all over the stage with Uairs (a lot of them never should have connected, but whatever). Anyway, one guy was complaining about how I was always getting him (I'm pretty sure I 4stocked that game while hardly getting hit. I'm not sure, since I wasn't really paying attention), and another guy said I'm really good at reads. I thought it was interesting they interpreted it this way, because I wasn't actually making any reads. My Ganon's just fast enough that I could react to all of their actions.

Have you guys ever had experiences like that?

 

[Geenareeno]

You can reach a certain point where you are so much better than someone that you can hard read every single thing they do, and you can autopilot 4-stock them.

 

[Divinokage]

It's almost like how I feel all the time.. no matter what someone tries to do I can always have an answer for it.. though 4 stocking someone for me is hard for some reason but I am consistent at the same time.. mm..

 

[Juushichi]

Kage's very good an knows his character very well.

I think what he mostly means when "getting someone scared" is you trap them in situations where they have to take damage in frustrating (or familiar... for you) situations. For some (a lot of characters, I guess) it's trapping them in sheild and forcing them to make sub-optimal decisions. Falco successfully hitting your sheild with a laser as a part of his approach is a pretty overt example of that. Or maybe Falcon/Fox floating back a nair on your shield to force a reaction to punish. It's good that you get to play Ripple often because he's pretty ****ing good at that (Brawl DK, urgh). He's also extremely fun to play against.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

While Kage may have meant that, I'm fairly certain he also meant it literally.

 

[Renth]

Going to a tournament on the 28th in Seminole Florida :D Hungrybox, col bol, rockcrock +more

 

[RaphaelRobo]

They shouldn't be much of a challenge for you, right?

Either way, we expect videos.

 

[Renth]

They shouldn't be much of a challenge for you, right?

Either way, we expect videos.

roflmao? what? I hope there's recording equipment. I'm just happy to be back in the scene

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Like Renth, I will be attending my second ever melee tournament. My goal is to win one match lmao. If that can be accomplished, then I will have improved since SMYM.

Good luck Renth, and wish me luck everyone! Reppin' that midwest ganon.

 

[Renth]

Like Renth, I will be attending my second ever melee tournament. My goal is to win one match lmao. If that can be accomplished, then I will have improved since SMYM.

Good luck Renth, and wish me luck everyone! Reppin' that midwest ganon.

You got it!

 

[G. Vice]

You got it!

I'm glad to have you back in the scene too. I had pretty much given up hope of ever meeting/playing you, but now it's possible

 

[Manondorf]

Saw something in the falcon thread and was wondering if it it could be applied to ganon. They talking about up angel fsmash vs aerials. S2j said up angel fsmash can trade with nair in falcon dittos. Can this work for ganon vs falcon? Would it be useful?

Here is the thread for reference http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14324827#post14324827

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Definitely not. That would have to be very situational. In brawl, maybe. Fsmash is his worst smash move, though. Falcons is actually good and is a viable kill option, as well as coming out rather quickly.

Even if it did work, there would be much better, safer options.

 

[Divinokage]

Fsmash is amazing in Ganon dittos or more specifically vs slow aerials since they are easy to predict. It's also good vs characters that have slow recovery on their moves.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

The pullback makes it useful up angled or not. Just have to read and space properly and a solid pivot fsmash can get the job done. Up angled ftilt is quicker and safer but not as strong.

 

[G. Vice]

The pullback makes it useful up angled or not. Just have to read and space properly and a solid pivot fsmash can get the job done. Up angled ftilt is quicker and safer but not as strong.

I definitely f-tilt more, but I can say it's useful when they are on the ledge and you know they're shielding. It pushes them back on the ledge due to the force, and then their shield is smaller, and the mental factor that "i just almost got hit by ganon fsmash" kicks in too.