Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i have a solution to fox's shine.

play fox.

i feel like i'm the only one here that has no idea what people are talking about half the time when people are theorycrafting and whatever the hell it is you guys do. i just play.

i'm sure that's why i'm bad though

[glow]loool[/glow]

 

[Bl@ckChris]

most of the time i just play. but landing with no lag with ganon compared to getting waveshined is useful. it also means during shield pressure, you can jump out of shield, get shined back down, and punish them for it. it really is quite nice.

 

[Geenareeno]

[glow]Bow down to the purple glowy text.[/glow]

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

[glow]never!![/glow]

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I had to highlight that text to even decipher it. Why is that a feature of smashboards?!?!

 

[Ripple]

[glow]its all the rave right now[/glow]

 

[PseudoTurtle]

How do you even do that? lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

[glow]Personally, I have almost no experience playing anyone good. So, by thinking about certain situations and ways Ganon can get through them, as well as ways to counter other characters, it helps me emulate experience.

Pseudo, if you can't work it out yourself, then you'll never know.[/glow]

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Haha, guess I'll never know then.

Marth related question: HOW DO I BEAT MARTH? Like any advice on the matchup would really be appreciated.

The basics I know:
1) bair beats every areal
2) full hop fair should beat utilt and fsmash
3) dthrow leads to bair/uair/nair, sometimes fair
4) don't tech toward the edge
5) DI away to avoid juggling
6) Edge guarding Marth is easy

Stuff I REALLY need to know:
1) how do I avoid getting grabbed?
2) how can I get a quick grab in? I know DDing can sometimes work and so can crouch cancel to grab.

Thanks in advance, guys!

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Keep in mind this is all from 5 minutes of thinking before I go to sleep:

Avoiding being grabbed would mostly be reading him. Marth has an insanely long grab range, so only go in there when you know you have a guaranteed hit. The Marth matchup seems like one where you always want to be hanging just outside of Marth's range. You jump in to either bait or get a guaranteed hit, then pull back out. As for a quick grab, I haven't tried this, but I like the idea of jumping towards Marth to bait, pulling back, then landdashing in to get a grab.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Full length short hop wavelands. The matchup changes once you have them.

 

[Geenareeno]

Chris do you do non fastfall sh wl? I've been experimenting with that and it's really **** but it's pretty hard to do consistently. Just practice I guess.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Thanks, guys. I'm gonna try that out tonight for sure. Maybe I can pull off another zero to death

 

[RaphaelRobo]

 

[spider_sense]

Any Ganon mains in NY besides Tipman and Raffa? I'm gonna try to make the trip there to visit family and like to go to a tournament.

Edit note: I didn't even mean to quote this, but since we're on the subject. Purple is definitely the color of the chosen ones.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

nah, theres no way i'd be able to get full length without rolling from down to forward, similar to how i do my ledgedashes. it probably looks cool, but the risk of not being frame perfect (and without any downward angle, i feel as if you'd have to be) and airdodging is a little too high lol.

actually, they end up non fastfalled when i go from a platform dash to a waveland. i don't usually fastfall between those, but it's more of a problem than a good thing, because my ganon would be significantly faster if it did.

 

[Superspright]

Horizontal wavedashes are easy with Ganon from a single FH on every stage except [easiest on BF and Dreamland of course] FoD which requires SH's and one platform height requires a back jump to reach from SH. Otherwise horizontal wavelands are cake. I'm sure you know Ganon quite well, but it's worth it to do stuff the hard way. Eventually it becomes second nature and you can never really screw it up if you're not thinking about it. Plus doing it your way you may not get all the way across platforms. And double jumping is just laziness anyway, and you can get plowed out of it and die.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Blue is the color of sheer technical skill. BLUE FTW

 

[Geenareeno]

Supersight I couldn't really tell if you knew we were talking about doing them on the ground but we were (I think). Also double jumping to waveland is usually fine because it's faster. You just have to know if they can hit you before the wl which is usually like 4 frames.

 

[Superspright]

back jumping feels as fast as DJing in most cases. But I guess i misread, but i still hold horizontally when i waveland anywhere.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah spright, any time i do a platform waveland, it's fully horizontal. clearly, not worried about that at all.

back jumping vs double jumping is not a matter of speed, it's a matter of consistency. it's easier to time him fully wavelanding when he comes out of the forward double jump animation (the somersault) because he's able to get lower to the ground visually before coming out with the waveland. i think there's also literally extra frames where you can get the full length.

getting a short hop waveland with no fast fall on a stage like FD is what we were conversing about. whether it's beneficial to not fast fall is up for discussion. it makes the waveland harder (you have to be close to frame perfect to still get full distance), but if the staggered action allows for an extra mixup, then it may be worth looking into. i usually go for the speed if i'm trying to do something tricky out of an empty jump, as my descent feels very vulnerable, but it may still be something to look into.

 

[Geenareeno]

I think the 2015 Ganon metagme will just be a mix of movement options. Just think about it. You've got sh forward, straight up and back, and from that you can do an aerial, a ff wl, or a regular waveland. If perfect wavelands can be achieved crazy **** can happen. I don't want to forget dj ff wl either.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

No way man, the 2015 metagame will be all about the RLD =P

Btw, I just realized that I could have used the RLD DJ WF spike during a match against Luigi on battlefield. I was on the ledge and he tornadoed. I did get up attack out of habit i guess, but that was a legitimate opportunity to use the RLD DJ WF spike and I'm kicking myself over it haha, that would have looked so tight.

Either way, LEARN RLD. It's kinda badass.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

...what do you think the current metagame is about? Standing still and getting hit?

Seeing u guys post almost makes me wanna go back to ganon and get some vids in

 

[Geenareeno]

Chris I was meaning that I don't think anyone has mastered those techniques and he aren't currently seeing them being used to their full potential. That was pretty sarcastic...

 

[Divinokage]

2012? Increase your jankiness and get super technical, im trying to at least. =P The people I play usually have an even harder time to deal with stuff now.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I used Ganondorf today against my friends, and the only attack I used was Warlock Punch. It was an interested exercise. But hey, I landed one, and PSed a few projectiles.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

2012? Increase your jankiness and get super technical, im trying to at least. =P The people I play usually have an even harder time to deal with stuff now.

Haha kage, if you got super technical, people would be scared. I know I would love to play a super technical you come this august (hopefully, plans are still up?).

Either way, since I practice pretty frequently with Ripple and my other friends a couple days a week here and practice my tech skill when I'm alone, I'd say I have a pretty good balance between actual fighting and technical skill. I just get so ***** by Marth, no matter how I change up my game haha. Oh well, in time I suppose.

Either way, practice your tech skill kage! We all want to see a mad technical version of you.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

lol, i'm pretty sure that renth, spider sense, zane and i are still more technical than kage

 

[Geenareeno]

Doesn't really matter if he's placing top 20 at nationals. But yeah if you combined Spider Sense and Kage you would have a God Tier Ganon.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Kage just proves that tech skill is useless. The warrior spirit is what truly matters.

 

[Renth]

My Ganon is the Sex Banana you nahmsayin? Y'all wanna see all the flash with the "dark magic micro" talk to this *****.


- When I use to play with Harriet The Guy, I use look very daemonic while playing Smash. I would get very into the game and look very angry. So he called it dark magic micro.

- I will also being playing against spider sense soon, Rockcrock and I are going to team in friendlies vs. spider sense and eikelmann, let's hope it gets recorded quad ganon dittos da bess

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I could record it. All the four of you would need to do is come up to NC.

 

[Renth]

I could record it. All the four of you would need to do is come up to NC.

We're all going to a tournament on the 28th.

 

[Divinokage]

More technical than me? Oh.. I guess you haven't seen what I've been working on, I will be the most technical as well the most powerful of all! Rawr! =D I've already been tricking people with all those wavelands and stuff combined with superior mindgames, it seems like there's still room to grow.

I imagine it like Ippo at times when I'm falling short just a bit, I tell myself.. I have to be faster, tighter! More focus!!! lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

kage's probably got the more important side of technicalities down, and less of the flashy side. i feel like he has full character control, which, although it may not allow him to moonwalk both ways all the way on fd into reverse ledgedash triple uairs into down B, do allow him to do things like space dairs under shields, and make some things surprisingly safe by being fully spaced. things of this sort are why kage can fight sheik significantly better than the average ganon.

i need to shift much of my focus to the latter side of the spectrum.

 

[spider_sense]

More technical than me? Oh.. I guess you haven't seen what I've been working on, I will be the most technical as well the most powerful of all! Rawr! =D I've already been tricking people with all those wavelands and stuff combined with superior mindgames, it seems like there's still room to grow.

I imagine it like Ippo at times when I'm falling short just a bit, I tell myself.. I have to be faster, tighter! More focus!!! lol

If you're Ippo, then I'm for sure Sendo. lol

 

[Divinokage]

I can relate to his attitude a lot of the times for example just simply the love of the game or what I do is always there and it's really thrilling most of the time... so with that I can use my memory to help me learn tactics that I've seen from every player. My style is basically everything I've seen combined, I tested it recently and it's really funny to use the same tactic your opponent is using on you to beat him. I find it really strange that everything I do can relate to my name, like being "Kage" which means Shadow, I can copy the same technique and use it. Anyways, I also started boxing 2 weeks ago.. They told me I have a lot of power but I can't even believe it myself yet. lol. It's gonna be interesting to see the result when I'm actually trained.. omg.. it's scary.

 

[spider_sense]

I can relate to his attitude a lot of the times for example just simply the love of the game or what I do is always there and it's really thrilling most of the time... so with that I can use my memory to help me learn tactics that I've seen from every player. My style is basically everything I've seen combined, I tested it recently and it's really funny to use the same tactic your opponent is using on you to beat him. I find it really strange that everything I do can relate to my name, like being "Kage" which means Shadow, I can copy the same technique and use it. Anyways, I also started boxing 2 weeks ago.. They told me I have a lot of power but I can't even believe it myself yet. lol. It's gonna be interesting to see the result when I'm actually trained.. omg.. it's scary.

South paw or right hand? I used to be pretty beast at boxing too. I just never had any raw power. Just very pro-efficient and fast as ****. lol

 

[Divinokage]

I have a standard stance, I don't really like to use any complex strategies like technical strikers use.. I'm pretty straight forward as a person and style, I guess they go both together unless you are able to think completely differently than you are used to. But I feel like if I do land some hits then my opponent will grumble. That makes me remember the time in kung fu class when my partner was holding a shield pad and then we were asked to do front kicks. When I did one kick not even full power, the guy fell down on the floor. lol.

If anyone has Ganon questions, feel free to ask anytime.