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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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So guys... i know this might be an odd question, but any advice on fighting roy? i know the matchup is ******** in ganons favor, but ripple keeps coming out on top haha. Hes a really good player.

So far i know ganon has a chain grab (which i DESPERATELY need to practice) and can crouch cancel basically anything.
 
RaphaelRobo

RaphaelRobo

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I was playing some Roy's at the NCSU the other day. It didn't seem like too difficult of a matchup. Space your aerials, jab when he gets to close, edgeguard with FD tilt.

Anyway, our most recent NCSU tournament was Saturday. Critique my Ganon (and Kirby, if you want to).

http://youtu.be/_F6J6UoTlvU
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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PseudoTurtle said:
So guys... i know this might be an odd question, but any advice on fighting roy? i know the matchup is ******** in ganons favor, but ripple keeps coming out on top haha. Hes a really good player.

So far i know ganon has a chain grab (which i DESPERATELY need to practice) and can crouch cancel basically anything.
Click to expand...
What causes you trouble the most?

I was also thinking of doing some sort of gauntlet challenge with my Ganon to see if anyone would be able to beat me at all in a row maybe in the ditto. Because I know my master in SF here did this before and did pretty much first to 5 vs everyone that wanted to challenge him. I don't know it sounds exciting to me and I kinda need some short goals atm. =P
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

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Divinokage said:
What causes you trouble the most?

I was also thinking of doing some sort of gauntlet challenge with my Ganon to see if anyone would be able to beat me at all in a row maybe in the ditto. Because I know my master in SF here did this before and did pretty much first to 5 vs everyone that wanted to challenge him. I don't know it sounds exciting to me and I kinda need some short goals atm. =P
Click to expand...
If you do the ganon ditto gauntlet, you'll definitely lose at some point. Especially if I'm there Kage :)
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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well, now that I think about it, he's an exceptional player, and i think its mostly the basics at this point. He can read me like a book and usually counters haha.

But there are other things too. I'm actually playing him today, so let me get back to you on that.

And raph, you're dead on as far as i can tell. Basically that's what I do. The d-ftilt is good, but wont get a perfect sweet spot. I like to stomp when I think they'll sweetspot and then if they try to recover higher, I try the d-ftilt.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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PseudoTurtle said:
well, now that I think about it, he's an exceptional player, and i think its mostly the basics at this point. He can read me like a book and usually counters haha.

But there are other things too. I'm actually playing him today, so let me get back to you on that.

And raph, you're dead on as far as i can tell. Basically that's what I do. The d-ftilt is good, but wont get a perfect sweet spot. I like to stomp when I think they'll sweetspot and then if they try to recover higher, I try the d-ftilt.
Click to expand...
Well see, when you want to commit to an aerial you have to make sure he's also committed as well so you can counter him. If you see him trying to trick you instead in the air, then you can mix it up with an empty jump also so that you dont get countered and you get a free CG it's usually pretty good to stay grounded most of the time vs him. You can't CC side-B or is risky to do so if you expect that then you can jump over him instead. If you want to edgeguard Roy, I think it's ok to go way off-stage and punch him before he's able to up-B to the ledge, even if you get hit by chance by Up-B then you can still recover pretty easily. But if you have to stomp, pretty much aim for the back of his head so the sword doesn't hit.

G. Vice said:
If you do the ganon ditto gauntlet, you'll definitely lose at some point. Especially if I'm there Kage :)
Click to expand...
Games for sure but sets.. I wonder about that.. =P
 
RaphaelRobo

RaphaelRobo

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One other thing. As much as I hate to say this, you can't be overly agressive against Roy. His counter is just too good, and if you just rush in, he'll get you with it. Play smart, and play safe.

And going offstage v Roy is pretty good. His only means of recovery is his upB, which is going to bring you back with it, so even if you mess up the KO you'll still be alive.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Ok, raph some falcon advice. I just watched a little bit of it, but as far as I can tell, he was above you for a good amount of time and you had a lot of opportunity. When a falcon is above you, that is when he is most vulnerable in my experience. Instead of immediately uairing (which i tend to do), try to mix it up. Force him into his shield and then DJ grab or something. Or usmash depending on how big his shield is.

at 1:51, you could have platform drop uaired. It's actually quite useful in this matchup. Although, good edge guard either way.

work on you DI. I am AWFUL at DI for some reason and it's why i get comboed so hard.

when falcon grabs you and throws you, he will likely try the regrab. It takes a while, but you will know whether or not you have the proper amount of space to auto-space yourself with a side-b, like at 2:11. Lots of reward there.

Never get-up attack over 100%.

Uhhh, more of the usual falcon stuff, keep moving u-ftilts, etc. Ohh, almost forgot. Grab. Grab a lot. Grabs are so awesome vs. falcon, its crazy. Tech chase with dair and then re-grab. Tech chase again with either a fair or a warlock kick (covers 3/4 options). After either of these, he should be offstage leading to death (because edge guarding a falcon is not too difficult).

One more thing to keep in mind. Falcon does the annoying wall jump. At 2:34 is one example of this. When he is close to the wall, there is a 99.999% chance he will do this. When he does, jab him and dropzone uair. It typically works for me.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Thank you Kage, I actually figured quite a bit of that out myself playing ripple today! feels good. Those dash dance/empty hop grabs are killer. One thing I must do though is predict a counter and WARLOCK PUNCH. Either way, awesome stuff. He can still 3 stock me consistently but not as easily lol.

Now... **** roy, he's nothing... compared to that absolute ***** sheik. I need a loooooot of help haha. I get 4 stocked. Always. Sheik can DD out of all my attacks, and then CG me. And that's GG folks. I don't understand you, kage. you tend to **** sheiks while that's easily, without a doubt, my very worst matchup.
 
Divinokage

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Well ever since I've used Ganon, it felt natural to me so when I acquired more experience I understood all situations that can happen to me and then understand what options can come out depending on the distance between me and my opponent. So from that you can start to limit options by choosing the right move.. pretty much how I play.
 
PseudoTurtle

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I suppose I just wasn't born with the warrior spirit:). Ah well, I guess I'll have to actually work on it or something crazy like that. Maybe just matchup experience then? But any pointers at all will definitely help in this matchup from hell. Im awful at CGing as well, that could be part of the problem haha.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Practice the cg on level 1 CPU. They always di full behind, which its the hardest regrab to time. Against humans I recommend keeping your eye on Ganon and monitoring your opponent's di with your peripheral vision, its really easy to dash (and jc grab when necessary) out of the dthrow that way.
 
Ripple

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My DK is considerably worse than my roy. I wish I was actually good with DK, I just get away with really dumb stuff
 
Jeyfar

Jeyfar

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PseudoTurtle said:
So guys... i know this might be an odd question, but any advice on fighting roy? i know the matchup is ******** in ganons favor, but ripple keeps coming out on top haha. Hes a really good player.

So far i know ganon has a chain grab (which i DESPERATELY need to practice) and can crouch cancel basically anything.
Click to expand...
Actually, Roy isn't such an easy match for Ganon, it's in his favor, but not as much as you think. Ganon just has to do few things to actually combat him well and that is CC and Wizards Foot. CC his Sword Dance and aerials, and wizard foot to break his sword if he is at a distance. The rest is up to your own reading and offensive skills (defence doesn't matter much in this match)
 
Jeyfar

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Nah, it's more like 7-3. It ultimately depends on the skill of the Roy though, if he knows how to fight Ganon it makes it more difficult, but nonetheless it's still easy to win, hence 7-3.
 
Ripple

Ripple

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Its a terrible match up. I agree with kage

Ganon can 0-death chaingrab roy pretty easily since he's a semi fast faller, has a ****ty recovery and unless roy jumps out of the chaingrab, he can't throw out a hitbox until frame 9

:phone:
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Jeyfar said:
Nah, it's more like 7-3. It ultimately depends on the skill of the Roy though, if he knows how to fight Ganon it makes it more difficult, but nonetheless it's still easy to win, hence 7-3.
Click to expand...
It's only difficult when a player greater than your skill level uses Roy and knows how to use him if not then it's really easy.
 
Jeyfar

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Well the first time I started playing against Roy I used to get beat real hard, like if I was a scrub. But little by little (and by that I mean just 1 week), no Roy could win against me, regardless of skill. Then it became 3 stock matches and I realized that Roy had tremendous weaknesses against Ganon. However A semi-finalist Roy visited my university the other day and he owning the hell out of everybody with his Roy (he's from Mexico, don't quite remember his name though, I think it was Carlos or something)) then I challenged him and he accepted. We played 5 matches and I lost the first 2, mainly because he was much faster and precise than the other Roys I had played. However it quickly became apparent that, well lol, it's Roy, even if he is faster and more skillful than the others it's still a gooddamn Roy. Well let's just say i won the other 3 matches and one was 1 stocked the other 2 were 2 stocked. So in the end I have to give the poor Roy a at least something possible to win lol, he has a possibility to win, even if it is slim. If you give him a 9-1 match up you're basically saying that the only way to win for the Roy is for the Ganon to suck so bad it's way too terrible, so in the end I give 7-3 to very skillful and strong Roy, 8-2 to average Roy, 9-1 to bad Roy 10-0 Super Ganon vs **** Roy
 
PseudoTurtle

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Well yea, ultimately, it's down to the skill of the player, not the matchup. At that point, matchup favor really only gives you a boost. I lose to every character ripple pulls on me lol, although I'm progressing faster than I ever have. Can't wait to see how good I'll be come FC.

Watch out, kage and eikelmann:)
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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PseudoTurtle said:
Well yea, ultimately, it's down to the skill of the player, not the matchup. At that point, matchup favor really only gives you a boost. I lose to every character ripple pulls on me lol, although I'm progressing faster than I ever have. Can't wait to see how good I'll be come FC.

Watch out, kage and eikelmann:)
Click to expand...
Hehe, we shall see... =)
 
G. Vice

G. Vice

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Divinokage said:
Has Zelda committed to a kick? Space side-B into combo lol. Just remember you can time a side-B to punish ANY aerial if you time it right.
Click to expand...
It has auto-spacing with the pull back. Falcon does it too. It can get around lots of things, especially marth aerials. Man, I love ganon's forward B.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Actually, I remember both of you talking about auto-spacing on side-b, down-b, and fsmash. Then I think you guys said how broken the zelda matchup is because of it lol. So, that's basically how I did it. And I LOVE side-b in the marth matchup. Whenever they are either committing to an areal or just landing from one. It spaces them too far to shield grab, soooo good.

Btw ACE, thank you so much for the CGing advice, I feel like I can actually do it now (maybe). Only problem now is having fast reaction time at low percents when I'm playing against real people.
 
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