Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[spider_sense]

What do you mean by properly? Is this combo is inescapable? I just picked up Ganon so I'm still learning a lot.

Also when I grab Marth at 0% what is the optimal punish?

D-throw to jab, if they DI in, you can get a re-grab and follow up with a retreating bair, no matter how they DI. It's pretty good damage; you just have to be responsive so Marth doesn't have time to react.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can CG marth until the teens sometime (i used to know the exact number) and after that you can get a tilt or aerial depending on their DI. You always have a free hit off dthrow, but usually not more than that.


edit- i see you there looshkin!

 

[Divinokage]

What do you mean by properly? Is this combo is inescapable? I just picked up Ganon so I'm still learning a lot.

Also when I grab Marth at 0% what is the optimal punish?

They can't escape it if they DI the downthrow away.. if they DI inside then you gotta have to follow up with bair. Make sure to pull out the upsmash quick though! You'll know when to do it when you see Jiggs right on top of those feet. It works on most floaties like Peach/Marth.. I don't think it works on Luigi but I have also done it on Doc Mario and Mario.

D-throw to jab, if they DI in, you can get a re-grab and follow up with a retreating bair, no matter how they DI. It's pretty good damage; you just have to be responsive so Marth doesn't have time to react.

Can't they attack you after the jab? But ya from 0 you can get 1-2 downthrow re-grabs but personally I prefer to nair right away since youll put Marth above you. Like downthrow, and then downthrow to nair. And then possibly get more follow up with upair/bair/fair.. depending on where he is.

 

[Superspright]

I believe it's 17 percent on marth. After that a regrab will not work. From 0 you can get 3 d-throws if you don't pummel. Or maybe more since the dthrow has variable damage. 3-5 right? or something.

 

[DippnDots]

personally at 0% i like to grab down throw jab regrab then do something cool.

on marth i mean

 

[spider_sense]

They can't escape it if they DI the downthrow away.. if they DI inside then you gotta have to follow up with bair. Make sure to pull out the upsmash quick though! You'll know when to do it when you see Jiggs right on top of those feet. It works on most floaties like Peach/Marth.. I don't think it works on Luigi but I have also done it on Doc Mario and Mario.



Can't they attack you after the jab? But ya from 0 you can get 1-2 downthrow re-grabs but personally I prefer to nair right away since youll put Marth above you. Like downthrow, and then downthrow to nair. And then possibly get more follow up with upair/bair/fair.. depending on where he is.

Yeah, but if they DI in, then you're free to follow up with another jab to regrab. It's DI dependent, but it definitely does work when it does.

 

[Divinokage]

Yeah, but if they DI in, then you're free to follow up with another jab to regrab. It's DI dependent, but it definitely does work when it does.

Ah alright, well I stopped doing that because Vwins ALWAYS DIs away.. so if I know that then I'd have to go something more garanteed. You can do also a cool mixup if they try to DI away the Nair.. If they are too far for anything, you can maybe bait an attack into a CC downtilt.. or just wavedash forward downtilt/Ftilt. I normally prefer downtilt here because it can lead into something else again.

 

[Ulti]

^ In regards to Marth, I typically go for the CG until he passes 15% and then follow up his DI with either more d-throw (if he DIs close to you) or up angled f-tilt/upair (if he doesn't DI nearby). 30 or percent and he is often in a bad position afterwards.

I think you may be able to get 2-hit nair (and then a potential follow-up) at 0% but I can never land it.

EDIT: whoops, thought page 100 was the last page. <_<

 

[Magus420]

You can d-throw f-air Jiggs and other mid/light-weights that are average or floatier even if they DI behind. I think it starts working somewhere around 80+ or so depending on weight, so from then onwards you can f-air them no matter how they DI the throw.

Smash hard behind to get the lagless turnaround then directly into a sh f-air (if you press back too slowly you'll turn back around and be facing forward when you jump). Don't settle for a b-air at upper percents on behind DI when you could start getting kills with turnaround f-air a good while before b-air becomes strong enough, or at least get them further offstage (f-air has more knockback than b-air until around 130 or so in NTSC depending on weight). Also lets you get them at very high damage when some characters like Marth start to go out of reach of a b-air on full behind DI.

 

[Divinokage]

Hey it's Magus, hi! =D I will take that in my notes.

 

[A2ZOMG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQqyIeQVO5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJHGlr-s8qQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYxOhEudFs0

Meh, these aren't outstanding play, but either way my point during these matches was mainly to demonstrate how PRACTICAL Powershield -> Jab is.

From now on, I expect Ganon users to hold down a shield button before plugging in their controller. =P

 

[Superspright]

I did that to train my PS. The PS window only comes out when you hard shield, and it's easier to get the timing if the only time you can shield is when you depress it fully. I wouldn't do it forever though.

It depends on the move, but if they try to crossover, or fire fox my face I just PS then dair.

Also, as practical as PS jab is (I use it a lot too) if they space right they aren't going to get hit by it. Might be better to PS ftilt sometimes, or PS then jump out of shield and attack. I saw a couple times where you were PSing then jabbing and you didn't have the range closed quite yet.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You lose absolutely nothing by holding down a shield button before plugging in your controller. You can always light shield with the other trigger, and light shielding by design defeats the purpose of doing anything out of shield.

 

[Superspright]

That's true, but I do everything with one trigger--except lightshield. I use Z to buffer lightshields when I land or getup, or get stuck on a platform and wanna get pushed off.

I feel like you lose that quarter second that you were light shielding and maybe would just get pushed back, rather than get hit.

 

[G. Vice]

A2Z, if i might offer a bit of advice.

You seem to use Forward B alottttt. Don't get me wrong...I love forward B too, but there's definitely a time and place to use it. I feel like alot of times instead of trying to space a retreating Fair/uair, you kinda just saw him in front of you and tried to forward B him. I know it can go under falco's lasers which is cool, but it's not gonna work as an approach, or if it's used so frequently. It also probably isn't the best techchasing move, though I saw you use it once or twice in there in a really good way. Which I plan to steal.

Also, try and get the DI away from falco's shine down. There were lots of times you could have pulled out of falco's Dair train and gotten away, but you just went straight up. Falco is tough, he's one of my worst matchups, but that's why not DI'ing properly, or throwing out moves that are easily punishable(like the forward B) are crucial mistakes.

 

[Divinokage]

I'd like to try my Marth, Falcon or Falco vs you guys Ganons. lol.Ill watch the vids now too.

 

[G. Vice]

I'd like to try my Marth, Falcon or Falco vs you guys Ganons. lol.Ill watch the vids now too.

Bring that Marth on, I ain't scared. But yeah, I wanna play your Ganon/Falcon. I might even bust out my pathetic Falcon too :D

 

[A2ZOMG]

A2Z, if i might offer a bit of advice.

You seem to use Forward B alottttt. Don't get me wrong...I love forward B too, but there's definitely a time and place to use it. I feel like alot of times instead of trying to space a retreating Fair/uair, you kinda just saw him in front of you and tried to forward B him. I know it can go under falco's lasers which is cool, but it's not gonna work as an approach, or if it's used so frequently. It also probably isn't the best techchasing move, though I saw you use it once or twice in there in a really good way. Which I plan to steal.

Also, try and get the DI away from falco's shine down. There were lots of times you could have pulled out of falco's Dair train and gotten away, but you just went straight up. Falco is tough, he's one of my worst matchups, but that's why not DI'ing properly, or throwing out moves that are easily punishable(like the forward B) are crucial mistakes.

Wow you're right, I did use a lot of Forward B in those Falco matches. I'm honestly a little embarrassed lol.

I think I just felt really lazy, and was kinda waiting for my powershield game to kick in. But yeah, good points. I actually don't mind the Falco matchup most of the time, although it heavily depends on how well I'm powershielding lasers imo.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJvhzzMpgM4&feature=channel_video_title

probably one of my better looking matches of me vs my training partner. it was a while ago, back when i was trying to get the cg down. good times...

I've probably posted this match before.

also, if people wanna know what project M ganon looks like, it should be somewhere on here: http://www.livestream.com/projectmsneak

 

[Divinokage]

Wow you're right, I did use a lot of Forward B in those Falco matches. I'm honestly a little embarrassed lol.

I think I just felt really lazy, and was kinda waiting for my powershield game to kick in. But yeah, good points. I actually don't mind the Falco matchup most of the time, although it heavily depends on how well I'm powershielding lasers imo.

Ya.. forward B will not hit falco after a downthrow if he techs away, I've seen a lot of that. Use Fair instead, its really the only move that will reach. Downthrow, DD, Fair or just turn around fair.

Bring that Marth on, I ain't scared. But yeah, I wanna play your Ganon/Falcon. I might even bust out my pathetic Falcon too :D

I've beaten Tipman with marth, can you do it? =P

 

[Palpi]

You can't beat falco...you have to beat the player. Falco for best char in the game!

 

[A2ZOMG]

What about wizkick to cover the techroll/tech in place? I want my Ganon to be like Magus420's Ganon with mastery of all the option select followups on techchase. That's partly why I got stuck on SideB for techchases. =P

 

[spider_sense]

Kage I would **** all over your Marth. lol

 

[LoOshKiN]

You can't beat falco...you have to beat the player. Falco for best char in the game!

Agreed, sir.

my friend told me that he saw Chad using a lot of double jump fast fall fair or waveland. That tech has been really nice to me in the Falco matchup. Ganon's hurtbox gets smaller with his double jump (unless you dj while holding away). It's like middle-hopping.

 

[spider_sense]

All of you guys need to learn how to Linguini grab.

 

[DippnDots]

grabbing noodly appendages? :O

 

[Bl@ckChris]

waveland through turnaround grab?

if so, that **** feels so good every time.

 

[-ACE-]

Ya.. forward B will not hit falco after a downthrow if he techs away, I've seen a lot of that. Use Fair instead, its really the only move that will reach.

No, side-B reaches techroll away just fine. Remember, you aren't hitting B until the instant your opponent hits the ground, so if they tech in place, roll away, or miss the tech and bounce, so you have time to walk/dash toward them to close the gap. The delay of the side-b puts a hitbox perfectly in their face no matter which of those 3 decisions they make.

All of you guys need to learn how to Linguini grab.

shield ASDI down + away during falco's dair > shine approach?

 

[G. Vice]

I've beaten Tipman with marth, can you do it? =P

You better believe it Mr. Kage Sir.

Lol, What Spidey said :D

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, side-B reaches techroll away just fine. Remember, you aren't hitting B until the instant your opponent hits the ground, so if they tech in place, roll away, or miss the tech and bounce, so you have time to walk/dash toward them to close the gap. The delay of the side-b puts a hitbox perfectly in their face no matter which of those 3 decisions they make.

My only problem with this is I haven't learned how to react to DI well enough to properly space SideBs on techchase. Is Wizkick by any chance easier to do?

 

[Divinokage]

Well it would be funny, that's probably the only matchup I know with marth lol.

 

[warlock-don-mia24]

hey falco should be on ganon **** list cuz i love seeing falcos get **** with no lub

 

[Divinokage]

Doing that on Mango was probably the most satisfying thing ever. lol.

 

[G. Vice]

Ganons the world over were rejoicing dude. I couldn't help but have a big old grin when you got on the mic. It was awesome!

 

[warlock-don-mia24]

here is the **** list for ganon
MARTH,FOX,FALCO,FALCON JIGGS TO HAHAHA

 

[-ACE-]

A2Z, wizard's foot has its uses as a mixup and a finisher from dthrow on spacies at around 130ish% depending on stage. They're both fairly easy to use once you get used to the timing, I think wf is slightly more risky but both have good option coverage. Basically WF is for a finisher/getting your opponent offstage, and side-b is for combos and quick setups. One good thing about WF is that you can delay your timing and hit someone backwards which will ruin their DI lol, love doing that...

 

[Divinokage]

Enjoy Part 1 of Best of 101 vs SSF. http://www.youtube.com/user/AlexG36#p/u/0/4tWQltzXbK0

Edit: LOL if you want to stop a Ganon from moving forward in Ganon dittos, you counter-Fsmash him haha.

Spoiler

Geez, my edgeguard at the end of the last FoD match was sex lol. And the end is more ridiculous, awesome.

 

[Manondorf]

Here is the first group of friendlies as promised. More to come.

vs fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M6nSOXX7rw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz23fhwE-hU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXCEUlhPW_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGxvIMCvdmI

vs falco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-_7JDuo1hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrlzGba6MoU

vs mario:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCnz_QlEzCA

Please tell me your thoughts. I'm in the process of uploading the rest of the matches (there's a lot of them).

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Get faster, Manondorf.

 

[Manondorf]

I get faster every day.