How Fast Is Melee? Vid (version 2.0 extra sexy)

[JPOBS]

No dude, you missed my point entirely.

no im not. your point is just ********.

being fair and logical isn't working

rise and rise again, until lambs become lions.

 

[Pengie]

Can this thread have everything other than Cactuar's posts deleted and then just get renamed "Why we love Melee."?

 

[MuraRengan]

no im not. your point is just ********.

rise and rise again, until lambs become lions.

I'm not a fan of wasting my time. It's ********.

 

[Acryte]

Starting to remake the vid, finally finished photoshopping all the inputs, I will upload the .psd as well as the individual images in a zip for people who want to use it for their own vid ideas

http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/?action=view&current=buttons4.png

 

[Seikend]

Starting to remake the vid, finally finished photoshopping all the inputs, I will upload the .psd as well as the individual images in a zip for people who want to use it for their own vid ideas

http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/?action=view&current=buttons4.png

Wow, these are really nice, good job. I'll probably end up using them up at some point.

 

[TheGoat]

I like how us Melee players are super mad about the Smash hate on SRK, and go out of way to tell them why one shouldn't hate on people for liking a game, and then turn around the next second and start hating on Brawl. A touch of irony.

I can't speak on behalf of the whole community, but I don't hate people for liking or playing brawl, that's ****ing dumb. What I hate is the actual game itself, seeing how it has devolved from an amazing competitive game into decent competitive game-it let down a lot of melee fans, to but it bluntly.

From what I understand people are hating smashers because of their arrogance or something? We are no more arrogant/childish/w/e than any other gaming community, the melee community in general kicks ***. This type of hatred for us, or brawl players, is unfounded.

Now, let's say they are hating on melee because they claim its an inadequately competitive fighting game, which is obviously a load of bovine excrement. In this case, these people can kindly **** off. So really, no reason to hate melee players as a whole.


Dismissing brawl as a competitive game is also considerably unreasonable. In retrospect it makes for a fine competitive game, it just has nowhere near the caliber that melee does. And it doesn't have wavedashing.

I was unaware that melee had such a legion of haters that this vid became necessary.

same

 

[The Star King]

I've tried rational argument many times. It doesn't work.

So you expect hating on their beloved traditional fighters to work?

That's just it, nothing works. So I don't see why people waste their energy trying to earn respect for Smash, when it ironically only fuels their hatred.

 

[CloneHat]

Umm who cares what SRK members think of Smash? I don't see SF players coming onto SWF and complaining about this game. To each their own.

You also might want to remove the references to "****" in your video. It doesn't make you or Melee appear more respectable, to say the least

 

[MuraRengan]

so you expect hating on their beloved traditional fighters to work?

That's just it, nothing works. So i don't see why people waste their energy trying to earn respect for smash, when it ironically only fuels their hatred.

OH GOD. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COMPLETELY MISS WHAT I SAID?

For the last time. If logic doesn't work, then I don't care about them respecting smash anymore. I'll just return the hate.

 

[CanISmash]

DUDE where is the ice climber combo from your sig from i need a link name vid asaaap. thats crazy

 

[MuraRengan]

DUDE where is the ice climber combo from your sig from i need a link name vid asaaap. thats crazy

I'm pretty sure it's DSW, but I can't seem to find it. Might be DRPP. I'm looking around.

 

[The Star King]

OH GOD. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COMPLETELY MISS WHAT I SAID?

For the last time. If logic doesn't work, then I don't care about them respecting smash anymore. I'll just return the hate.

YES, I got it. WHY are you returning the hate? That was MY point. There is NO point in doing so.

 

[MuraRengan]

YES, I got it. WHY are you returning the hate? That was MY point. There is NO point in doing so.

I don't recall saying I had a point to hating them.

 

[The Star King]

So you're implying you're doing it for no reason? Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[JPOBS]

I don't recall saying I had a point to hating them.

I'm not a fan of wasting my time. It's ********.

herp derp..

 

[MuraRengan]

herp derp..

It'd be wasting my time if I were the one who made a video trying to prove a point to them. I don't have to do anything to hate them.

 

[Acryte]

version 2.0 uploaded im sure most of the complaints are appeased plus it looks sexier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8

 

[Zodiac]

Version 2... I <3 you. I love this video.

 

[VA]

This is a really cool idea for a video. But you could build on it a lot to incorpate all the things fly and others mentioned, i.e amazing DI, great stage control, crazy movement etc.

It's just **** that there aren't more people playing melee because it's so good...

 

[Retroking2000]

yo VA lol

anyways my friends are arcade gamers they were melee players and they constantly dog melee / brawl
they do accept its a fast game but i think they look down on the fact it doesnt have any life bars . and the way its played seems gerenal to them . just pummeling your opponents until they get knocked off + the cast looking kiddie xD


they used to go on so much i actually stopped playing melee atogether just to focus on Sf / BB
only later i came back cause melee is 2 good i enjoy the freedom also just thinking SF plain sucks loloool

 

[Eggm]

A cool video series would be like... Showing lets say ssf4 and melee side by side in all the comparable situations and all the options available. You show the option happening for both games at the same time on the split screen and eventually the ssf4 side goes black when all its options are exhausted and the melee side is still showing you options. I choose ssf4 cause its the only other fighter I've ever played other than melee.

You'd have to do it in a video series and for each comparable aspect. Start with like the jump in. Options for ssf4 :

1. do nothing
2. normal Air attack to land in front
3. normal air attack to land in the back
4. Doing the normal air attack deep or early (by this i mean how early/late you do the air attack after you leave the ground)
5. Doing a special attack (character specific)
6. Teleport away (character specific)

for melee :

1. do nothing
2. normal Air attack to land in front
3. normal air attack to land in the back
4. Doing the normal air attack deep or early (same as # 4 in ssf4)
5. Doing a special attack
6. Airdodge away
7. DI during jump in
8. Double jump
9. Waveland as you land from the jumpin

That's off the top of my head and ssf4 doesn't have to be the comparable game but it would be a cool video series I think. Oh and i probably missed options for each game in that example scenario... but you get the idea right?

Edit : Didn't include jumping in doing nothing into back dash as the alternative for # 9 on the melee side cause even tho your character would go through the same motions theres no way some one would fall for that bait in ssf4 cause landing from an empty jump and back dashing is way slower and more obvious than wavelanding back is.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

Am I the only one to notice the irony of the old smashers sneering at the apparent "elitism" of those horrid new smashers? It is delicious.
Stop knocking the poor guy, it's actually a pretty cool video, and gives a fairly good view into how fast the game is. You know, some of us like the whole unnecessary tech skill thing, it looks badass and is exciting.

Also, what do you think will be more attractive to a new player: A display of tech skill with slow-mo breakdown of the button combinations used, or a 5 page essay describing in depth the strategic implications of what a player is doing? New players will pick this up as they go along, they don't want it crammed in their face all at once. Whereas with the tech skill thing they'll be like "WOAH I WANNA DO THAT GIMME A CONTROLLER".

 

[Acryte]

Yea, that's a cool Idea eggm. I think if it's done though it should cover both side like the offensive options and the defensive options, I actually thought about doin that the other day BUT I don't have anyone skilled right now to make a vid with or a capture situation but I was thinking about doin that in "yomi" layers

Like one person does something, then the other does the counter strategy, etc.

Falco jumps in dair hits
falco jumps in dairs and sheik wd backward grab
falco jumps in lasers and sheik wd backward grab but falco lasers the grab
falco jumps in sheik wd backward grab and falco tries to laser the grab but sheik shields the laser and nairs out of shield
falco jump in lasers, sheik wd backward, and falco dashdances out, sheik whiffs nair/grab he DDs back in to dair
falco jump in lasers, sheik wd backward, and falco DDs, out sheik whiffs nair/grab he DDs back in to dair but sheik shieldgrabs the dair
falco jump in lasers sheik wd backward, falco DD out, sheik whiffs nair/grab he DDs back in to dair and throws a shine after it
falco jump in lasers sheik wd backward, falco DD out, sheik whiffs nair/grab he DDs back in to dairshiek nairs out after shine
falco jump in lasers sheik wd backward, falco DD out, sheik whiffs nair/grab he DDs back in but wavelands back instead of dair etc.

Like person 1 does the effective counter strat, then person 2 counters that, then person 1 counters that. Melee has a lot of those kinda options when you factor in spot dodges, wavedash back, shieldgrabs, pressure, OoS, etc.

 

[FoxLisk]

if you show me someone who sees the tech skill thing and wants immediately to grind until they can do it, i'll show you someone who will never be very good at melee.

and someone who already plays a fighter competitively would probably be much more interested in an explanation like cactuar's than in tech skill being rubbed in their face. it makes the game seem interesting, rather than just making it seem difficult

 

[Acryte]

cool then make one, this doesn't have to be the only video ever made by anyone. So instead of complaining that someone made a dreaded video that showcased some tech, just make another video showing a different aspect of the game, there are many aspects.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

if you show me someone who sees the tech skill thing and wants immediately to grind until they can do it, i'll show you someone who will never be very good at melee.

and someone who already plays a fighter competitively would probably be much more interested in an explanation like cactuar's than in tech skill being rubbed in their face. it makes the game seem interesting, rather than just making it seem difficult

Gee, thanks. That really makes me want to play. Also highlights the first thing I said in my previous post.
Getting people interested in playing melee is not the same as trying to sculpt them into perfect players. You're being ridiculous if you think that cactuar's post is more exciting to a newcomer. It may be more informative and useful but it certainly isn't more appealing.
I play 64 competitively, (probably better than you are at melee ) and the skills you learn playing it (i.e. positioning, edgeguarding, spacing) are pretty interchangeable with melee. I found that you HAVE to learn melee tech in order to be stand a chance.

Also, players such as silent wolf and the like seem to learn new tech as soon as it is discovered. Now, try and tell me they are bad at melee.

 

[Acryte]

also please refrain from comments like this dude made:

also, melee isn't good just because it has complex inputs dude

my general response for that garbage:

No one said that. If you want to get someone's attention who doesn't know much about your game do you show them something quick and flashy or the maximum amount of SPACING AND STRATEGY THAT THEY ARE UNAWARE OF EVEN IF THEY WATCH IT. Just because someone is liable to get more out of watching some insane basketball shot from falling out of bounds behind the backboard, doesn't mean that OH MY GOD BASKETBALL ISNT GOOD JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE WILD CIRCUS SHOTS!!@! shut up."

 

[Metal Reeper]

Im gonna start playing Marvel vs Capcom 2 lol. They're community is insane. They are much more serious about there game, sometimes I wish smashers were that serious

 

[Jam Stunna]

To whom exactly are we trying to prove Melee is a good game?

Anyway, real men play Guilty Gear

 

[FoxLisk]

@Strangelove:

Okay to be totally clear. I am talking about newcomers to smash from other competitive fighting game communities. Not newcomers to competitive gaming. Technical fireworks will impress people who know nothing about gaming. Anyone who's good at MvC2 or something knows that there are certain techniques that have to be learned and is familiar with the kind of emotional payoff that comes along with executing something difficult in a tense situation. They don't need to be told about that.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I always thought people who got into competitive gaming - of any sort: sports, video games, chess, whatever - did it because it's a mental challenge. Tech skill is, ultimately, just the interface we use to outsmart each other. If the community agrees that showing off tech skill is the best way to prove that melee is a good game, then I don't see eye to eye with the community on a very fundamental level and I will leave this discussion.

On Silent Wolf: Silent Wolf used to be much worse than his tech skill. At some point he became a strong player as well as being technical, but that seems to have been a separate growth. When all he was doing was practicing tech, he wasn't very good.

and I don't understand what part of my post warranted your first remark, but it doesn't seem relevant. So if it was, go ahead and explain, I suppose.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. Legit, my posts aren't meant to be exciting. They are directed at experienced players. New players rarely get anything out of my theorytalk.

 

[Acryte]

right, you have to understand the game and the matchup differences to appreciate spacing and lot of other deeper parts of melee, intro level stuff that someone who doesn't know the game can look at and appreciate or think looked cool is most commonly combos, tech, and maybe more obvious Mindgames

 

[Winston]

Also, what do you think will be more attractive to a new player: A display of tech skill with slow-mo breakdown of the button combinations used, or a 5 page essay describing in depth the strategic implications of what a player is doing? New players will pick this up as they go along, they don't want it crammed in their face all at once. Whereas with the tech skill thing they'll be like "WOAH I WANNA DO THAT GIMME A CONTROLLER".

That's making a lot of assumptions. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are attracted the cerebral element of competitive gaming.

Also, from my experience, the tech skill requirement is the number one reason why people DON'T give melee a try. I'm talking about people in general, who may also play other non-fighting games already.

 

[Brightside6382]

Of course something is going to look impressive when you write out every single input required. That whole video can be summarized as SHFFL's, waveshines, and him just getting stylish at the end with that platform dash. Let's just pretend like he didn't whiff 2 shines and a back air for no reason.

If anything this just seems like a desperate cry for attention because some people don't like your game.

 

[ss118]

Nah guys, get them to watch this and say it was you on a bad day.

 

[Ripple]

man, so much hate from a video showing how fast melee can be.

wtf is wrong with our community?

 

[Acryte]

man, so much hate from a video showing how fast melee can be.

wtf is wrong with our community?

true, its funny. I guess every vid ever made with melee has to be super serious, grand finals, nationals/internationals, nonjiggly, to the utmost of the utmost of the utmost or else. Or it has to be whatever it is that each person wants it to be, whether thats a tech vid, or a spacing vid or a DI vid or a combo vid or whatever. That's what this vid has to be, because its impossible for them to just make a vid about what they want to see, no that is just what this needs to be instead.

Some people would complain if you gave em a million dollars in 100's... like WTF MAN COULDN'T YOU HAVE JUST DONE A DIRECT DEPOSIT

Of course something is going to look impressive when you write out every single input required.

wait... it looks impressive when you show all the inputs that you are actually inputting?

is that what you are arguin about now? wow.

No offense but when you play smash you compartmentalize the move and chunk it so that its easier to do. It's easier to input 3 buttons in 1 motion and get that down then 3 individual things you concentrate on. And no, I didn't input general DI, like when he shorthops and goes forward, or when he jabs on ledge and holds forward to drop off. If it seems impressive when you look at everything you are inputting when to you its just 5 or 6 motions throughout the whole video then maybe when you do these things you should be more impressed with yourself. Just because any solid player can do it just as easily doesn't mean its not impressive in general. jus sayin.

 

[JPOBS]

i liked the second vid a lot better.

 

[Matador]

Traditional fighting communities hate on just about everything.

TvC gets hate for its simplified button system.

BlazBlue gets hate (lives in Guilty gear's shadow, much like Brawl does Melee) for various reasons.

SSF4 gets hate because of how campy it is. Same with 3rd Strike.

MvC2 gets hate (mostly from scrubs) because of how centralized the roster is.

MvC3 is already getting hate for deviating from the MvC2 button system and not including some characters.

Mortal Kombat has been getting ****ted on for years...

My point? Don't worry about it. Melee has the depth of a traditional fighter. No need to try and convince anyone...everyone who matters already knows.

Not to say you shouldn't make the vid or anything. I thought the second one was awesome. Your goal just shouldn't be to "convert" traditional fighting game fans.

 

[tarheeljks]

if you show me someone who sees the tech skill thing and wants immediately to grind until they can do it, i'll show you someone who will never be very good at melee.

think you've overstated your case


edit: i get what you're saying though and agree in part