Houston Thread - No HOBOs and no WHOBOs. What do we do now??????????????????????????????????????????

[TGM]

K I'm done. Put in my input and suggestions and no one listened really

U guys can continue arguing with a man who thinks he
is right even when he's wrong. Have fun

Also allan, if you weren't a *******, u would realize that my compromise is a direct solution to the problem u CONSTANTLY bring up which is- " esca/bear/etc steal wins with mk"

I did nothing but try to help u with my compromise but you chose to be ignorant.

nite nite ozzy poo!

 

[Suspect]

 

[RT]

Meta Knight is the future, FACE IT.

....

*two months later* WHAT A HORRIBLE FUTURE!

*runs in front of a semi*

...

I just realized that if SamuraiPanda comes, there will be two pandas. This will be weird...

 

[Inui]

This arguement about mk could all be simply avoided
Dojo is a mk main,cool,he says he mains mk
We can all name 12 people who cp mk

Tx has 1 "mk main" and 15 regulars who cp mk when losing

If tx wasn't a ****** then there probably wouldn't be a big problem

Personally,if idk,light, came up to me and picked mk match 1 I'd be like,ok let's do this,but if he picks his "main" and maybe loses then goes mk,its gay

That goes for the other 15,its like a silly plague,it just skews results.

And holds back the community

And both players

Mk is like steroids and certain people are weak and subjectable

If you main mk that's fine whatev,but tx is just a mk cp state

I usually don't agree with allan but its not like this is "xyro xyro xyro" its just "no mk"

I lose as MK, counterpick with Ike, and then win or do way better.

True stories to follow:

Vs Snakeee, my MK gets almost threestocked, then I take the next game with Ike. Vs Snakeee again, my Snake loses, but then I take the last game of the set with Ike.

Vs Anther, my MK gets almost threestocked, and then I take the next game with Ike, and game three goes to last stock even though I SD.

Vs Reflex, I went all MK and got ***** but I'm 100% sure my Ike would have done better.

Vs every Sonic ever, I do better with Ike than with MK.

Vs Atomsk's ICs, my MK gets super wrecked, but then I did way better with Ike the next game.

Ike ftw. Any player worth anything is amazing against MK and knows the match-up better than the MK player does, so MK ain't that broken.

 

[DMG]

Any player worth anything is amazing against MK and knows the match-up better than the MK player does, so MK ain't that broken.

How come the MK player can't know the matchup?

"You can make MK less good if the player behind him doesn't understand the matchup."

That seems like the player's flaw, not the character's.

 

[Inui]

How come the MK player can't know the matchup?

"You can make MK less good if the player behind him doesn't understand the matchup."

That seems like the player's flaw, not the character's.

In the current metagame, MK is overplayed, so people know how to fight MK much better than the MKs know how to fight other characters. I'm finding it to be harder and harder to do well with MK these days because everyone is so ridiculously good against him. Reflex and Anther, for instance, know the MK match-up extremely well, but MKs don't know how to fight their underused characters yet.

Does this mean MK is going to become broken once they learn the match-ups?

Nope.

The amount of MKs is always going to be way higher than the Pikachus and PTs, so the anti-MK metagame is going to be much stronger than the anti-something else metagame. You're never going to see threads everywhere about fighting Pikachu and PT, but you're going to always see everyone work at stopping MK, and that is not a bad thing.

 

[Magitek_Knight]

Metaknight is Sexy, He should stick around. FOREVER.

And Lol hard at suspects image post

<3 Texas and Metaknight

P.S. Inui Ike is too sexy too.

 

[Hylian]

@hylian: ok that's very very reasonable so this is what I have to say:

I currently believe like some others that mk ruins the cp system

Personally because at a high level of game knowledge a lot of it is shared between players

And with a lack of technical skill,or a overall community peaking factor added in,

The cp system becomes knowledge that we all know like,if I'm dk and they go d3 then I should go falco or mk

If I'm falco/diddy and they cp norfair I should go gaw or mk

If I'm getting gimped I should go mk

If I'm getting outspaced I should go mk

And basically any situation can be made better for you if you go mk.

What I just posted is common knowledge also but what I mean is,the cp system is almost "will I pick mk or not" or "will they go mk"

Like pokemon,if you have a special attacker and they have blissey your sp.attacker is useless and a waste

Wolfs best stage is said to be norfair and some other obscure characters also including mk,I really can't use it cuz they just cp mk,this happens.

So it affects everyone.

But,if you can prove to me that mk isn't the best,or most solid answer to 90% of brawl,

Then I would be against the ban,

And I hop that other pro-banners,would sway themselves if mk was no longer the "problem solver",knowlege of the game shouldn't be "should I pick mk,or not",some of us don't pick mk and some do,banning him is basically eliminating this aspect and opening a WIDE range of options,imo

Also my main point:if dojo showed up to a mk banned tourney in a bikini I think it would change the results more than if he used mk,

Idk guys take the ban for what it is.if allan banned air conditioning I'd be more upset than if he banned my character

I never said I didn't understand why people wanted the character banned, my criteria is just different. I don't believe the CP system is important enough to matter, nor match-ups.


For example:

Ally consistently beats every D3 in the world he runs into in tournament since Azen. That is snakes worst match-up.

He then goes and gets 3-1ed twice by ADHD who uses Diddy. Ally has played ADHD in tournament and other times and never lost against him. Snake is arguably diddys hardest match-up, or so the diddy backroom thinks anyways.

So you see a snake player beat his worst match-up with 100% consistency then lose a national to a Diddy, a much better match-up for snake.

You might as well make match-up ratios on how the best of a certain character does vs the other best, because they DON'T MATTER. As long as it's not a blowout(DDD vs DK for example) it really doesn't matter much. How both players are playing, reading each other, adapting, plays a MUCH bigger role. Actual results don't even support most match-up claims and pinning a number on something like that in a game that involves reading your opponent more then anything is pretty much pointless. This community is obsessed with match-ups.

 

[DMG]

What I am saying is that if you don't understand how to fight against your opponents character as well as they know how to fight against your character, regardless of whether it is MK or not, that that issue is a player issue not a character issue. That's like saying "Yeah MK beats our character 6/4, but if you're lucky and he doesn't know the matchup, you can win." If you're talking about pure matchups, obviously you are supposed to assume both players know what they are doing.

I understand how to beat Marth as Wario almost better than Any Marth knows how to beat Wario. That doesn't change the fact that my matchup is around 6/4, even if I personally might have an easier time winning because they are "clueless" on how to play the matchup. Any time I beat a Marth player, instead of being glad I overcame my bad matchup, I realize that they could have beaten me if they had played the correct way, and often I will even give them tips on what to do better next time. It's one thing for people to go "Yay I beat a MK with such and such character", but the celebrations will be over once he actually figures out what to do. Will MK flat out **** every character once people learn his matchups? Who knows.

Hylian, the community is obsessed with Matchups, and a large part of it is because of how heavy/influential Counter Picking is (That heavy Counter Picking is based on... the matchups). You can't argue with matchups if one character flat out doesn't have the tools to beat the other. I know for a FACT that Wario does NOT have the tools to beat Marth. He doesn't. No matter how good I play or how bad my opponent plays, the fact remains that when you get two people who know their s***, Wario does not win.

 

[Hylian]

I understand how to beat Marth as Wario almost better than Any Marth knows how to beat Wario

How do you know this? It's a baseless claim that doesn't support anything or give your logic any reasoning. You really think the best players in the world don't understand match-ups? That is insane.

 

[DMG]

How do you know this? It's a baseless claim that doesn't support anything or give your logic any reasoning. You really think the best players in the world don't understand match-ups? That is insane.

I have a positive record against EVERY Marth player I have ever played, including some of the better Marth players. If you want to talk about records, I beat Marth A LOT with Wario. I've even done well against Mike who has good Wario competition around. Few Marth's would be able to beat me UNLESS they played the matchup like they are supposed to or unless I played Sloppy or something.

I'm not saying the best players in the world don't understand matchups. I am talking solely about Marth vs Wario.

 

[Esca]

I never said metaknight has disadvtanges on neutrals. I said he's beatable/ u have a fair chance of winning rather than on a cp stage. Lulz ur just an idiot and u don't really understand what I'm saying.

K I'm done. Put in my input and suggestions and no one listened really

U guys can continue arguing with a man who thinks he
is right even when he's wrong. Have fun

Also allan, if you weren't a *******, u would realize that my compromise is a direct solution to the problem u CONSTANTLY bring up which is- " esca/bear/etc steal wins with mk"

I did nothing but try to help u with my compromise but you chose to be ignorant.

Besides HOBO6, where I went ALL MK, when have I gone MK to win a tournament match?

Get the **** off Ozz.

We don't even have an OVER-abundance of MK's. If you don't like losing to an MK, don't play the game. Nobody is making you play this game, so leave if you don't like it. Don't try and manipulate it. The only people who whine about metaknight are people who:

A. Main low tier. This is understandable to an extent, but if you have a low tier main, it's important that you have a secondary for bad matchups. Get over it, or quit.

B. Lose to players that CP meta 2nd round. Learn to beat him. Like, wtf. It's been a year and a half of MK abuse and if you're still losing to MK at/lower than your skill level then you shouldn't be playing this game. Get over it, or quit.

The whole debate needs ro be left alone, to be completely honest. DMG/Hylian, y'all need to argue in person, instead of flooding a game forum. Although I agree with you Carl, it's not very refreshing at all to get on in the morning and see more of this stuff. I'd like to see some smashers actually handling issues in person. This is silly guys.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

To be honest. I wish MK was still legal here. I really don't know the MU very well at all and that's kinda sad because Sheik has a near even match-up on FD/Smashville/PS1.

Metaknight isn't that bad. I know I'm gonna get ***** by him for a while, but look at everyone else that has conquered MK. Seriously, if you main main MK or whatever, ask if your opponent if you can use him during the set. It should still follow the same rules as other banned things like stages, amirite?


In other news: first day of school.

 

[Broly]

yay first day ftw

 

[Magik0722]

first day of what exactly?

 

[Magik0722]

Yeah i just dropped off my niece on her first day of school ever

 

[Hylian]

The whole debate needs ro be left alone, to be completely honest. DMG/Hylian, y'all need to argue in person, instead of flooding a game forum. Although I agree with you Carl, it's not very refreshing at all to get on in the morning and see more of this stuff. I'd like to see some smashers actually handling issues in person. This is silly guys.

Esca this is a social thread and the ideal place for arguing lol. In person I would rather just play.

I have a positive record against EVERY Marth player I have ever played, including some of the better Marth players. If you want to talk about records, I beat Marth A LOT with Wario. I've even done well against Mike who has good Wario competition around. Few Marth's would be able to beat me UNLESS they played the matchup like they are supposed to or unless I played Sloppy or something.

I'm not saying the best players in the world don't understand matchups. I am talking solely about Marth vs Wario.

You are using anecdotal evidence to support your claims, which is often seen as a horrible method for proving...anything..because it is. Putting false limitations on yourself does nothing but hold you back. It's funny that you would even mention any match-up record from one player anecdotal or not considering the vast majority of match-up ratios are not supported by top players at all when it comes to results.

Match-ups should be treated as books, not insurrpassable walls given the right material. Knowledge is fine, preconceived expectations are not.

 

[DMG]

Well the books matter lol.

 

[Player-4]

Esca this is a social thread and the ideal place for arguing lol. In person I would rather just play.

Then why do we usually get told to take it to PMs? >_>

 

[Gnes]

I make every matchup in my favor. Only one more to go.

People are usually told to take it to pms when its a argument not about the topic at hand. Everyone's talking about meta so....

Who cares, texas will just be screwed when we go OoS. Our top players will lose to people like Havok because even our small bit of meta experience is being withheld, and no one will main meta since hes banned here anyways.

I say just give up Hylian. I gave up a long time ago. Right after with no meta experience i almost beat dojo at FS6...yep...unbeatable.

 

[PhantomX]

Keith, lots of people "almost beat" Dojo. I've almost beaten Dojo as well on more than one occasion, but it doesn't matter, because I didn't, and still haven't managed to.

 

[Gnes]

Keith, lots of people "almost beat" Dojo. I've almost beaten Dojo as well on more than one occasion, but it doesn't matter, because I didn't, and still haven't managed to.

Dont worry...i will do it soon. In 1 week im going into the chamber. Diddy metagame will never be the same.

 

[UTDZac]

Dont worry...i will do it soon. In 1 week im going into the chamber. Diddy metagame will never be the same.

I think ADHD beat you to it.

 

[Gnes]

i Think Adhd Beat You To It.

****!!!!!

 

[ADMJP]

alot of people used to get flat out ***** by him though. but instead of whining, they continued to improve and get better.

**** -> respectable -> almost beat -> go even -> ???

and playing against "insert player name here"'s mk wont really do nearly as much for awareness building compared to playing in tourney against dojo's mk where you only have so many chances to adapt and overcome.

 

[PhantomX]

Lol, get wrecked, Gnes!

 

[TGM]

Can you find UTD?

 

[Gnes]

Px...when are we gonna team?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I lose as MK, counterpick with Ike, and then win or do way better.

True stories to follow:

Vs Snakeee, my MK gets almost threestocked, then I take the next game with Ike. Vs Snakeee again, my Snake loses, but then I take the last game of the set with Ike.

Vs Anther, my MK gets almost threestocked, and then I take the next game with Ike, and game three goes to last stock even though I SD.

Vs Reflex, I went all MK and got ***** but I'm 100% sure my Ike would have done better.

Vs every Sonic ever, I do better with Ike than with MK.

Vs Atomsk's ICs, my MK gets super wrecked, but then I did way better with Ike the next game.

Ike ftw. Any player worth anything is amazing against MK and knows the match-up better than the MK player does, so MK ain't that broken.

You do know that you listed match ups where Ike holds slight advantages or a neutral match up right? That combined with the lack of match up experience against ike is the reason you did better. Not because MK isn't that broken.

Besides HOBO6, where I went ALL MK, when have I gone MK to win a tournament match?

Get the **** off Ozz.

We don't even have an OVER-abundance of MK's. If you don't like losing to an MK, don't play the game. Nobody is making you play this game, so leave if you don't like it. Don't try and manipulate it. The only people who whine about metaknight are people who:

A. Main low tier. This is understandable to an extent, but if you have a low tier main, it's important that you have a secondary for bad matchups. Get over it, or quit.

B. Lose to players that CP meta 2nd round. Learn to beat him. Like, wtf. It's been a year and a half of MK abuse and if you're still losing to MK at/lower than your skill level then you shouldn't be playing this game. Get over it, or quit.

The whole debate needs ro be left alone, to be completely honest. DMG/Hylian, y'all need to argue in person, instead of flooding a game forum. Although I agree with you Carl, it's not very refreshing at all to get on in the morning and see more of this stuff. I'd like to see some smashers actually handling issues in person. This is silly guys.

Point B. is kind of a reason people believe MK is broken, I actually think you could have quoted someone on that lol especially when they say look at snake we took him down from the top in 3 months but its been a year and half for MK.



I don't really think MK should be banned in hobos either just point things out. Also el paso has had more interest in going to hobos since mk was banned seeing as we are going to 2 in a row so there are some ups to this whole thing. I go to any tournament that i can even if MK is legal but I can't go alone, stupid 10 hour drives =\.

I might fly to pound 4 though financial aid rocks!! I got 2300$ left over and i think it will be the same for next semester.

@Xyro: Maybe you should give MK hobos a try and do the puerto rico thing and announce who goes MK when they lose with there main. Although that might just cause grudges so idk... just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Dojo]

I think ADHD beat you to it.

Lmaooo get ****ing wrecked.

 

[Hylian]

Then why do we usually get told to take it to PMs? >_>

You don't very often. There is a difference between an intelligent argument about the game and people pointless insulting each other over nothing. Personal stuff can be taken to PM's. DMG and I were quite calm lol.


And don't worry Gnes, we'll figure something out and they will see.

<marquee> hainsaw: Xyro </marquee>

 

[TGM]

"metaknight xyro metaknight"


??????

*is puzzled*



edit:AHHHH! i had to refresh the page. i get it now

 

[Hylian]

<It'sokAllan>

 

[TGM]

<It'sokAllan>

really, how did you do that? is that a SMod feature?

 

[PhantomX]

<Why'sHisNameSpelledWithTwoLs>

 

[Hylian]

<Why'sHisNameSpelledWithTwoLs>

<I dunno but you can put spaces>

 

[heytallman]

d'oh, it doesn't work when I try it.

edit: lol I'm in class right now. My Poly Sci professor is awesome. He threatened to kill anyone whose cell phone goes off.

 

[TGM]

<Why'sHisNameSpelledWithTwoLs>

<I dunno but you can put spaces>

<can you see me>



EDIT: wtf, it dont work

 

[UTDZac]

< testing can you see me >

Aren't you supposed to be banned... lol

 

[TGM]

Aren't you supposed to be banned... lol

ok ok. im gone bye