Houston Thread - No HOBOs and no WHOBOs. What do we do now??????????????????????????????????????????

[Denti]

I want 3 stocks..

 

[Xyro77]

@Xyro: That hurts. I've been a part of Smash since 2005/2006. 3 Stocks just takes far too much time that could be used elsewhere. 2 Stock doesn't really screw around with consistency, AND it's faster paced.

its one thing to think picto should be legal or if mk should have a 15 LGL

but

Espy, going against the status quo (especially stock count) is pretty damn radical. that was more or less my point. i apologize of that came off wrong.

 

[Espy Rose]

You made radical choices too Xyro. Being the status quo shouldn't give a policy a kind of immunity if changing it would benefit the community. I'm not saying that 2-Stocks is that answer, but like Gea said, you can't deny that it would shrink down the time spent running a single event, and it really, truly is a big problem with tournaments that TOs, for some reason, seem to overlook.

@Denti: I want two.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

@xyro you got it.





I refuse to entertain the idea of 2 stocks.
Espy the community and TO's don't think 2 stocks is better. That's why for 5 years every tourney has run 3 stocks>.>

 

[Espy Rose]

No, every tournament has run 3 stocks because they don't want to bother with trying something new out, despite the fact that they have little to no experience with the possibility. You're proving that perfectly by straight up denying it a single chance just because you feel like it's better.

 

[Gea]

^you got it.





I refuse to entertain the idea of 2 stocks.
Espy the community and TO's don't think 2 stocks is better. That's why for 5 years every tourney has run 3 stocks>.>

 

[heytallman]

I hate all of you.

 

[Tesh]

its one thing to think picto should be legal or if mk should have a 15 LGL

but

Espy, going against the status quo (especially stock count) is pretty damn radical. that was more or less my point. i apologize of that came off wrong.

Your view on stages changes alot more than having a 2 stock match.

@Knuckles, i know shorter matches can make lower level players feel a bit short changed, but keep in mind at smaller tournaments its even more likely that pools can be done instead of just going straight to bracket. Instead of struggling to do 4 man pools (3 matches and out), YOLO can do massive pools in the same amount of time and you can play alot more people before being eliminated.

 

[*Cam*]

that would work if our scene wasn't dead. majority have moved elsewhere, I haven't played since Summer of 2011, Esca is the only one who plays and AFAIK it's not a lot. so sure, maybe we could get 10-20 people interested, but that would be a lot of work for a game I don't play. but this was more hypothetical anyway, I wasn't trying to revive a scene or something.

edit: not to mention we tried this at my university already like I said. we got a few locals interested and had maybe 10 people in our scene. like 4 went to tournaments. game is just donezo man.

There are potential players for Smash all over the place. For example, we talked to a cohort at the University of Alabama in Huntsville and hosted ASL's most recent Huntsville tournament at the university's LAN party. Doing that doubled our attendance and earned us a permanent invitation to host at the LAN party. Now Huntsville's Smash scene is doing a lot better and they get together consistently.

I'm not trying to convince you personally to go be proactive; that's your prerogative. I am trying to convince the naysayers in Texas that Smash is not a lost cause. I'm also trying to convince you guys that getting organized now is a very good investment for Smash 4. How much easier would it be to draw in new players to Smash 4 if you already had a circuit for the game planned out with experienced TOs in each region ready to facilitate events for the game? Who knows, perhaps you guys could even have invested in more recording equipment by then and have a website going. The market will be hot when the game first comes out, and that's the point where I think a lot of new players will choose to keep going to tournaments or not.

 

[Xyro77]

You made radical choices too Xyro. Being the status quo shouldn't give a policy a kind of immunity if changing it would benefit the community. I'm not saying that 2-Stocks is that answer, but like Gea said, you can't deny that it would shrink down the time spent running a single event, and it really, truly is a big problem with tournaments that TOs, for some reason, seem to overlook.

@Denti: I want two.

Ive made radical choices like what? MK ban? Well that is because its an ISSUE that is widely complained about for YEARS and to this very day even. Stocks are not (if they are its by a SMALL SMALL group of babies). Speed of an event due to stocks are not. Ive done 100 man events in 13 hours(HOBO 10 and 11). This was during a time when MOST people sucked (and id bet matches took even longer than now) and yet because i made sure it was ran as fast/accurate as possible it went fine. If that can be done, than there is nothing wrong with keeping 3 stocks. The issue is pretty much the stuff i mentioned a few pages back.

edit: i highly doubt my attendance would increase if i did a circuit with 2 stocks. thats like when ohio tried to do one with custom stages and ****.

 

[Espy Rose]

Canning the bat is incredibly influential, and still somewhat problematic even NOW, Xyro. It doesn't carry the same stigma as it did back in 2008-2009, but you still did it. That's a big step in a direction that people weren't necessarily familiar with.

So you managed to do 100 man events in 13 hours. That's good, that really is.
Imagine how much time you could've saved if it were only 2 stock matches instead. You might've had time for another event. You could've been able to give more time for friendlies, or crew battles.

Who knows what more you could've done?

It's more a discussion concerning time management and finishing things within a border, Xyro. You can't deny that axing one stock would help tremendously.

 

[Xyro77]

So you managed to do 100 man events in 13 hours. That's good, that really is.
Imagine how much time you could've saved if it were only 2 stock matches instead. You might've had time for another event. You could've been able to give more time for friendlies, or crew battles.

Who knows what more you could've done?

No need to change what works. Especially if there was not any major complaints of time.

 

[Tesh]

3 stocks is pretty boring to watch most of the time too. You guys complain about people not watching 45 minute grand finals.

How many times have you heard someone say "oh i left and I missed something".

Thats because MOST OF IT was boring and pointless to watch.

@ Xyro, we are supposed to be talking about why its NOT working though.

 

[*Cam*]

I think being able to get back that day without housing is a bigger incentive for players.

 

[Sinister Slush]

2 stocks won't stop players from trying to time people out.
I really don't think it matters unless you want it just to make matches for you easier like PT or making Lucario incredibly bad for example.

I'd put more on the table, but most of what's been on my mind while reading would be in a recent post from a few minutes ago by the time I finish someones post.

 

[Zori]

For the record lone star circuit wasn't good, I'm not sure where y'all were but that tournament ended at like 4am or something crazy

Matter of fact that tournament made jerm and me quit.... Oh well

 

[Espy Rose]

No need to change what works. Especially if there was not any major complaints of time.

People keep complaining about the sluggish pace of tournaments and games. That's something that always bothered me as well, and it's on me that I never really talked to people about it. It really is a problem that needs to be put in the spotlight more often.

3-stock works, but why not make it better? Rule sets aren't perfect.

Let me set the record straight for right now too: I'm not trying to force a 2-Stock on any kind of circuit or what have you. Most of my responses so far have just been at how genuinely disappointed I am at the big players in the Texas scene being so adamant against something that can potentially help them do their job.

 

[Tesh]

2 stocks won't stop players from trying to time people out.
I really don't think it matters unless you want it just to make matches for you easier like PT or making Lucario incredibly bad for example.

Lucario isnt worse in 1 stock. Lucario always eventually has to score a kill with "same stock" aura to win a game, so its not like he is somehow less viable.

 

[Xyro77]

3 stocks is pretty boring to watch most of the time too. You guys complain about people not watching 45 minute grand finals.

How many times have you heard someone say "oh i left and I missed something".

Thats because MOST OF IT was boring and pointless to watch.

GFs used to never be super boring (if they were it was RARE). Its only boring now because you are viewing MUs you have seen for 5 years now. It only gets worse if its campy characters. Olimar VS Olimar or Snake vs Diddy will still be boring whether its 2 or 3 stocks. Its a ****ing match we have see more than the sky itself.

@ Xyro, we are supposed to be talking about why its NOT working though.

When its NOT working and when it becomes an issue on a LARGE scale (thus proving its a REAL issue) we/xyro will entertain the idea. until then, you and your cult are BABIES

 

[Espy Rose]

@Slush: Well, there's two options to counter that:

1. Keep the timer at 8-minutes for 2 stock. This sounds pretty ridiculous at first, especially when considering that you'd have an entire stock less to abuse the timer with. Matches WILL end faster unless the players intend to time out from the get go. Worst case scenario for this is that it ends in the same amount of time as 3-stock, 8 minute matches.

2. Reduce the timer to something more fitting for 2 stock matches. Five minutes? Six minutes? Regardless of how much we cut the timer down, just by doing that we ensure that in that very same worst case scenario, that matches are STILL being cut down as far as time is concerned.

Again, the point isn't to stop time outs (that's the implication I got from your post). The point is to save tournaments time and effort by cutting down on the time it takes to complete a set. Cutting down the stock count would generally have an influence on that.

@Tesh: Lucario does get hit a little bit by a stock count drop, but it's really negligible.

 

[Xyro77]

People keep complaining about the sluggish pace of tournaments and games. That's something that always bothered me as well, and it's on me that I never really talked to people about it. It really is a problem that needs to be put in the spotlight more often.

3-stock works, but why not make it better? Rule sets aren't perfect.

Let me set the record straight for right now too: I'm not trying to force a 2-Stock on any kind of circuit or what have you. Most of my responses so far have just been at how genuinely disappointed I am at the big players in the Texas scene being so adamant against something that can potentially help them do their job.

If TOs and players can still get the job done with 3 stocks and there are not time complains directly related to stock count....then nothing needs to be changed. just cause you can "improve" something doesnt mean it needs to be done. Hell, "improve" is relative.

 

[Gea]

@Tesh: Lucario does get hit a little bit by a stock count drop, but it's really negligible.

The point of a ruleset isn't to balance the cast anyways. Stagelist changes are not supposed to be made with the cast balance in mind, and stock count should be the same.

I'm unsure if people realize why Brawl is played at three stock to begin with.

 

[knuckles213]

Your view on stages changes alot more than having a 2 stock match.

@Knuckles, i know shorter matches can make lower level players feel a bit short changed, but keep in mind at smaller tournaments its even more likely that pools can be done instead of just going straight to bracket. Instead of struggling to do 4 man pools (3 matches and out), YOLO can do massive pools in the same amount of time and you can play alot more people before being eliminated.

Man, I've suggested the idea pools before, but people keep saying there not enough people to do pools. I rather play pools and get my money worths of a tournament; I would feel sorry for the people that have to drive 3+ hours just to lose early;

better off making WF, GF, and LF 2 stocks and 8m mins (dont actually do this)

 

[*Cam*]

You guys still have yet to consider the impact of tournaments ending early = not getting home at 4 AM / having to stay the night.

 

[Tesh]

GFs used to never be super boring (if they were it was RARE). Its only boring now because you are viewing MUs you have seen for 5 years now. It only gets worse if its campy characters. Olimar VS Olimar or Snake vs Diddy will still be boring whether its 2 or 3 stocks. Its a ****ing match we have see more than the sky itself.



When its NOT working and when it becomes an issue on a LARGE scale (thus proving its a REAL issue) we/xyro will entertain the idea. until then, you and your cult are BABIES

Go look at Ally vs M2K at Apex 2009 and tell me how long those videos are. Matches back then took 2-5 minutes because people played differently. Denti vs Razer is ALWAYS 6-8 minutes now. Its not boring just because its been seen alot, its boring because it won't hold people's attention for such a long time. This is another reason why people quit. They just aren't willing to deal with that type of stuff for 8-10 minutes at a time, as a player or a spectator.

 

[Espy Rose]

The point of a ruleset isn't to balance the cast anyways. Stagelist changes are not supposed to be made with the cast balance in mind, and stock count should be the same.

I'm unsure if people realize why Brawl is played at three stock to begin with.

I'll definitely agree with that. I'm just giving him an FYI for the most part.
Artificial nerfs and buffs will happen to characters regardless of whether or not the changes were intended for that effect. It really shouldn't be considered because every little rule does something to the cast balance.

The LGL completely shafts ROB and buffs the hell out of Olimar, ICs, and Falco, for example. So do the stage lists that have been popping up recently.

 

[Sethlon]

The sun sets on Houston smash. ACCEPT IT

The circle is now complete.
Sing for them, TGM

 

[Xyro77]

I'm unsure if people realize why Brawl is played at three stock to begin with.

I dont know how they would be confused.

Brawl was initially tried at the same rules melee was currently at (wasnt it 4 stocks 7min?). The BBR or leading melee TOs at the time deemed that with brawl under its current metagame (which was VERY SLOW at that point) and 4 stocks was making matches reach almost 15mins (some vids still exist iirc). So they decided to cut the stocks down by one and assume the brawl metagame would speed up eventually.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh my god Sethlon why?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Go look at Ally vs M2K at Apex 2009 and tell me how long those videos are. Matches back then took 2-5 minutes because people played differently. Denti vs Razer is ALWAYS 6-8 minutes now. Its not boring just because its been seen alot, its boring because it won't hold people's attention for such a long time. This is another reason why people quit. They just aren't willing to deal with that type of stuff for 8-10 minutes at a time, as a player or a spectator.

That's more or less the entire communities fault for finally seeing the light that the best way to win is camp your balls off.
Or choose MK.

 

[Tesh]

Man, I've suggested the idea pools before, but people keep saying there not enough people to do pools. I rather play pools and get my money worths of a tournament; I would feel sorry for the people that have to drive 3+ hours just to lose early;

better off making WF, GF, and LF 2 stocks and 8m mins (dont actually do this)

I'm with you there. I feel some form of pools should always be done, instead of just seeding a bracket with heavy bias and pretty much screwing people with certain matchups or giving people a free ride based on previous success. I don't know the exact math on it, but YOLO pools can be done very quickly unless u have like...3 setups.

 

[Xyro77]

The circle is now complete.
Sing for them, TGM

I

Oh my god Sethlon why?

AM

ETERNAL










edit: thanks sehtlon for that post. i literally smiled pretty damn hard. oh and i got your PM btw, ill respond in a bit.

 

[Nike.]

LMFAO Sethlon

 

[Xyro77]

seriously though, ive been on this damn site way too long. when will i leave?

 

[knuckles213]

Woa, what (or who) is TGM?, I read the post now I gotta know

 

[heytallman]

Woa, what (or who) is TGM?, I read the post now I gotta know

****ing NEW GENS

 

[Gea]

Woa, what (or who) is TGM?, I read the post now I gotta know

BWOOOOOOOOOP NEW GEN ALERT NEW GEN ALERT BWWWWOOOOOOOOOOP

 

[Xyro77]

Woa, what (or who) is TGM?, I read the post now I gotta know

****iNG NEW GEN NERD BICHES

 

[knuckles213]

****ing NEW GENS

BWOOOOOOOOOP NEW GEN ALERT NEW GEN ALERT BWWWWOOOOOOOOOOP

First off dont talk **** to me, just nicely explain what who is TGM. I wasn't is this state or playing competively at the time.

@xyro lol

 

[*Cam*]

Gosh, and you guys think new people are the problem?