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Hey guys, use Up-B. All the time. UPDATED WITH FORWARD AIR!

Omari

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Sorry, I meant fair, not forward air.

Much obliged, that makes sense.
Don't be, you cool peoples. Thanks KM. I'm going to call you KM (Kim) from now on because that tag sounds better IMO.

You can cancel the shield drop lag with the jump input [this includes Usmash]. You can use all aerials, upB and usmash without having to drop your shield. The startup for aerials OoS is jump input lag + startup lag of the move.

:059:
Not bashing you but I'm aware of Out of Shield (OoS) specials, airs & the up smash (with Mario & other characters). May you review my previous post? Thanks Gheb. I'd like to know how to jab, tilt (all three would be appreciated), front smash & down smash OoS without releasing my shield.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I think my post pretty much clarifies that the option you ask for does not exist.

:059:
 

Omari

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I think my post pretty much clarifies that the option you ask for does not exist.

:059:
You're probably right but I'm stubborn (in a good way). Don't get me wrong, I love listening to other people's suggestions & open to anything reasonable. IMO, there would be much more to Mario (OoS wise) if Mario could utilize his other ground moves (besides Super Jump Punch & Up Smash) to their full potential without releasing shield. I'm mainly interested with knowing as much guaranteed punishes against all characters when Mario. When I'm punishing someone...I feel limited (in a sense) because even though Mario has great OoS options like SJP, u-smash, n-air, b-air & u-air...four out of five of those OoS options includes me going airborne which may not be the best choice depending on the situation.
 

Calebyte

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Up-B is good against Snake when his nades send you both flying towards the ceiling. I killed Nope's Snake up-b at LAB, which sort of redeemed me from getting 2-0'd in the set. D:
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
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Killed a sonic at 30% from dair->up-b.

Poor guy shouldn't have tried to uair me that high up...it's the year of the Mario. That **** won't work.

Duuuude...dtilt is ****in epic.
 

Coolwhip

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I agree with matador. Hopefully i'll have ryan from aib to upload a replay for me soon. It's a offline friendlie match i've save. Nair>Dtilt>F-smash=God-tier
 

A2ZOMG

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Killed a sonic at 30% from dair->up-b.

Poor guy shouldn't have tried to uair me that high up...it's the year of the Mario. That **** won't work.

Duuuude...dtilt is ****in epic.
I'm learning to implement D-tilt into my Jab cancels. It's more reliable to combo into than D-smash, and has the potential of creating strong baits.

I did literally pull off Jab2 -> D-tilt -> F-smash on my buddy ViceGrip, just to confirm that D-tilt is legit.
 

Inferno3044

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I'm learning to implement D-tilt into my Jab cancels. It's more reliable to combo into than D-smash, and has the potential of creating strong baits.

I did literally pull off Jab2 -> D-tilt -> F-smash on my buddy ViceGrip, just to confirm that D-tilt is legit.
It pops them up into a position where they tend to air dodge. You bait that and there's your kill. I've been told its use is to pop people up at high percents.
 

Matador

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That's the thing...against most characters, even if they don't airdodge, Usmash will beat most aerials they'd normally mash out anyways.

I mean, I had this epiphany in a Mario ditto...where Mario just ***** himself in so many ways already...but Usmash beats Nair and airdodge, which my opponent was trying to mix to throw me off.

Didn't matter. Just a timing adjustment.
 

Inferno3044

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zwv1HWKfG0

^Offline (sandbag) friendlie. Mario's d-tilt is sick!
I see that coolwhip combo. Just a piece of advice though even though it was friendlies. Hit the goddamn Ike. There were times where you had free hits on him and you either didnt do anything or you spotdodged. Also, Ike shouldve gimped you at :56. That gimp was free.
 

Omari

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@Coolwhip: I see you love your b-airs, good **** bro! Pretty good Mario & may I give some suggestions (not trying to dictate) to better your Mario?

Times:

0:08-Why did you stop u-tilting? (Ike's free against Mario in the air. You could of had hit at least 2-3 more u-tilts>baited him (by blocking towards him, walking away or buffering a grab to be safe) simply.)

0:22-Started to get predictable (although your opponent didn't realize it) when you were going to spot dodge. I recommend shielding (because you're able to OoS & punish him for becoming predictable) against Ike's jabs (Ike arguably has the most useful jab in brawl not only because of the damage but the followups (setups) for early knockouts) rather than spot dodge (Generally, spot dodge should be used to counter grab attempts. Spot dodging against someone who's more likely to jab will only result in you eating three more jabs.).

0:34-SJP in yo face *****!!! <3 (You could have killed him right there but I<3shenanigans.)

0:47-Love how you glide through the air while charging F.L.U.D.D. very innovative. Be aware of how close (personal space) Ike is to you though as his range is unreal.

0:49-Excellent mix up (& bait) but where's your punish? Why'd you drop through the platform (to be on the safe side?) instead of Shutter Step Front Smashing (SSFS) Ike? Free kill on your part.

0:56-Be mindful of how your opponent(s) thinks as well. As Inferno said, he could have gimped you (if you didn't cape stall) because he's over 100% which means he can easily take advantage of the frames on the ledge. Just a reminder but I'm sure you know.

1:02-BIG problem (I went through this phase too not too long ago). U-airing from the ledge is good when you see an opening (don't get me wrong) but (but), putting yourself back into a bad position is worse. Personally, I recommend letting go of the ledge (free falling)>U-air (immediately)>anything (depending on your opponent(s) reaction). Hypothetically, if they were to shield after your u-air, its a free d-air>jab-cancel (double jab-cancel, tilt, down smash, whatever you want). If they were to roll behind you (which usually is a smart choice when you opponent(s) are airborne approaching you), you could cape>b-air (to put Ike back into a bad position) which could have lead to a gimp.

2:11-Auto-pilot (spamming (buffering) fire balls back to the stage). Although this worked on your opponent, this would rarely work in tournament based situations. Before you shoot a fire ball, watch what your opponent(s) do & how they react (an experienced player could simply wait to punish you for going on auto-pilot temporarily). Mario's a simple character to gimp by far IMO. Generally when using Mario regarding recovering, you want your opponent(s) as far away from you as possible when you're recovering (F.L.U.D.D.). If they decided to go aggro, then fire balls (&/or cape) are your friends. F.L.U.D.D. helps against aggro smashers too but keep in mind their distance from you.

2:14-Many smart smashers will bait your recovery move as a last resort to punish your landing lag (IDK why he didn't f-air or d-air you when doing so but that's besides the point.) bro. Once again, watch yourself (mostly your opponent(s)) when you're recovering.

2:15-Remember I said you love your b-airs? You love them way too much! You missed a free jab-lock (he missed the tech) because you b-aired your opponent(s) instead of jabbing them. This jab-lock could have lead to another free kill (charge the front smash when you get near a ledge as your jab-lock will force a stand up on your opponent) & be creative with what you do after a jab-lock (doesn't have to be a front smash although in this situation, that was the best choice).

2:17-You died because you short hopped (you would have died if you spot dodged again too) & because of your DI (but its cool, **** happens).

2:40-<3X100!!! Good **** (Omari takes notes, ;))!

2:56-Now do you see what I am talking about (about not mid air jumping u-airing after a d-air)? You got extra hits because you were patient (& punished accordingly). <3

Final thoughts: Liked your AT skill & your aggro play-style (although that won't work all the time). Personally, I don't rate video (number wise) because who am I to place a number on a video (or person)? You did pretty well man, keep at it bro!

:mario2: all day, everyday!
 

DtJ XeroXen

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Why are we doing video reviews that aren't asking how a person should be using Fair/Up-B in this thread? I thought we had another thread for that.
 

fromundaman

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Damn, I hadn't checked this thread in a while for some reason.


High risk, low reward? Short term, yes. For killing power, as we all know...Mario has poor killing potential (yes, damn near most of the time I'd like to think Mario's the best character in brawl too but lets face facts...he's *** in SSBB Personally, I feel Nintendo places him as the top tier in every other game so can you really argue about his brawl standing?) Anyway, four of the six hits do 1% damage so that would be like refreshing four free airs (exactly like trading 1% (a $1) or 10-13% (for free money, what?)...how can you go wrong? Maybe more u-air stringing perhaps? =). High risk, low reward? Long term, no.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter how many times you hit them, a single UpB only refreshes one move. All multi-hit moves in the game have this property. As a basic rule, you only get additional refreshes when you have to hit a button to get the next part of the move. For example, jabs, MK and Snake Ftilt, etc. (Pummels being the only exception, since some characters (Samus, Lucario, Wolf and a few others I think) only get refreshes for the first pummel) all get multiple refreshes because they require another input for the next hit (though keep in mind infinite jabs work slightly different. For example, Pit's jab is a 1-2-infinite, which only counts as 3 refreshes.).
As a result, the long term reward for UpB is sadly not such. You're better off using fireballs or simply mixing your game up for refreshes (IDK about you guys, but refreshes really aren't much of a problem for me since pretty much all of Mario's moves are useful, + fireballs and jabs refresh moves really fast. The only move I really ever stale out is fireball.). Really the best use for UpB for me is to use the invul frames to go through moves.

That and of course get the money. In fact, when I play Mario outside of tourny matches, I will never Nair you until I UpB you, because you gotta pay before I give you that sex ;)

Not bashing you but I'm aware of Out of Shield (OoS) specials, airs & the up smash (with Mario & other characters). May you review my previous post? Thanks Gheb. I'd like to know how to jab, tilt (all three would be appreciated), front smash & down smash OoS without releasing my shield.
Closest thing to that is powershield canceling (PSC), but that's really hard to do, and you can't do Dsmash out of it. I'm going to get my springs removed from my L button before I learn it, because I can't play with other control sets.
 

A2ZOMG

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Hey even if it's only for 6 damage, actually hitting with Up-B is worth it in followups. Keeping your opponent in the air is really useful.

It's not so much about going for damage as it is about keeping the momentum on your opponent. Falco's Shine is a move with massive ending lag and low damage. Doesn't stop it from being an amazing addition to Falco's movepool just due to how much followup utility he has in it given the speed and range. Mario's Up-B similarly is a move that has a lot of utility due to its speed and range, and implemented intelligently, lets you maintain momentum in new ways.

Also, while it's difficult to quantify, the fact of the matter is that every hit, no matter how small, DOES add up. You may not notice it instantly, but I promise you if you're biding your time waiting for the optimal moment when you know your kill move will KO, every hit you made to get your opponent to that point was useful.

I wouldn't say Up-B is strictly useful for refreshes, but the point is it's an underused source of damage that covers unique options. Implementing more moves as a whole generally increases your average damage output, both by covering more options, and filling up the stale move que with a wider variety of moves, which in turn makes your most commonly used moves do more damage.
 

Coolwhip

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Thanks for tips & look out omari, inferno & a2z. I'll do better next time.
I need to spot dodging against ike so much. ike get free kills off that ish.
 

Supreme Dirt

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I love this thread so much.

I love killing with up-B even more.

FLUDD to boost them up, then double jump to Up-B, especially on low-ceiling stages.

Cape can work too.
 

A2ZOMG

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Thanks for tips & look out omari, inferno & a2z. I'll do better next time.
I need to spot dodging against ike so much. ike get free kills off that ish.
Smart use of shield and fireballs > Ike. You don't need to dodge reflexively against Ike most of the time. He doesn't really have very good baits or traps, and his grab is not very threatening both in terms of range and damage output. Dodging on REACTION to Ike however is really good especially when he's attempting to juggle or edgeguard, given that he has virtually no followups after whiffs.
 

Inferno3044

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Smart use of shield and fireballs > Ike. You don't need to dodge reflexively against Ike most of the time. He doesn't really have very good baits or traps, and his grab is not very threatening both in terms of range and damage output. Dodging on REACTION to Ike however is really good especially when he's attempting to juggle or edgeguard, given that he has virtually no followups after whiffs.
Ike is bad. I don't know why he is considered mid tier. Most of his **** you can dodge on reaction. There's only one person I can think of that does amazingly well with Ike and that's San.
 

fromundaman

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Actually, FLUDD wrecks Ike badly too. A FLUDDed SH is a free punish every time.


And yeah, UpB does decent damage if all the hits land and landing them does make a difference, just saying it doesn't refresh faster.
 

Omari

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Good Ike mains aren't free & besides, this Mario board needs more Mario hype.

Getting people like DMBrandon (that's my All Brawl ***), CF, GunBlade, etc... using Mario offline brings me joy. :awesome:!!!!!!
 

Omari

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@Fromundaman: Thanks for the heads up (I'll eat that because it was my mistake), you gave some great examples & explained yourself. SJP does piss people off though when they get hit by it. It actually will either make them go aggro or make think twice about their approach. Free money is always worth going for. WhereU@?

@A2ZOMG: Point given, point taken & thanks. Yo, can I get $6? Nah, seriously...can I? No uppercuts? :c

@XeroXen: We critique because we can (& because Obama said so).
 

fromundaman

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No prob. Just pointing it out.

Seriously though, UpB is great for just saying "**** your *insert move here*! I go right through that ****!"
Thank you XeroXen for helping me work UpB into my game more.
 

~ Gheb ~

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It's alright, Omari. If you can help a Mario bro you gotta help him - don't let anybody tell you anything else. Bros before hos.

:059:
 

fromundaman

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Not anymore you can't.

And you're welcome Fromundaman. I use that move... alot. As you noticed in our MM.
Yeah, no kidding. But they work when used well. You've shown me the utility of that move.



Also, on a cooler note, yesterday I landed Fair offstage spike>UpB twice in friendly matches. Sure, one stagespiked while the other barely missed the stagespike and made me die alone instead of killing us both, but it was too sexy to pass up. (That's the hit a ***** for money combo btw :D )
 

Omari

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You're funny :laugh:, thanks & slowly the trolls of Omari reveal themselves...:awesome:...or at least the members who wanted to XD

Edit: You forgot to italicize one word in your sentence XeroXen. If you're going to imitate me you have to do it right :awesome:!!!...lol
 

JuxtaposeX

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I WANT to join in on the Omari thing. I think that it will be hilarious if the entire mario board start doing it, and when someone from the other boards see it they will go WTF?!
 

~ Gheb ~

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Everybody imitating Omari is lame. Imma go with imitating Coolwhip.

:mario2: <- da bess
 

Omari

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Speaking of Coolwhip, I used his tag ((CWhip)& a few other members) at Vinnie's tournament yesterday. People was like (at first), Is that Coolwhip from the Mario boards!?!?!? It was difficult for me not to chuck a smile once in a while. Pretty soon they figured out it was me though...:c:urg::).

:mario2: <- duh bes!!!*
 
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