Hanenbow's ban is unjustified.

[painfulfellow]

In the Stage Discussion forum, MetalMusicMan justifies Hanenbow's constant ban in tournaments by saying that "the odd layout and various platforms cause gameplay to feel very different here compared to nearly every other stage."

I don't understand how that is an argument. In fact, in my opinion, it is not.

He also says that Hanenbow promotes camping, but aren't there many other maps that promote camping and that are widely regarded as counterpick stages?

Honestly, I don't see why this stage should be banned.

 

[TL OWNS U]

I love the stage, but at the same time I can see why it would be banned. You can change the platform's direction with 1 attack and that can really throw a person off.

 

[Nicole]

in b4 lock

look hanenbow is banned for one simple reason.

the flower.

okay now this hasnt been discussed outside of the BBR and this might be considered a leak so i hope i dont get in trouble for it.

okay so there's a rule that goes along with hanenbow that we haven't released to the public simply because hanenbow is already banned. anyways, the rule is that IF you singlehandedly get the flower to appear, you win the game instantly. someone like peach is mad OP at doing this because of her multi-hit dsmash that turns the leaf red with one twirl. 5 dsmashes = peach instantly wins.

so you can see why -I- personally don't want it banned, i mean lord knows peach needs a good counterpick, and hanenbow is beneficial to several other characters who have good dsmashes as well, like bowser, zss, jigglypuff ( ), and a couple others.

but when you think about it, the flower is kinda gamebreaking unfortunately, and we simply cant legalize hanenbow since we already have that flower-rule in place.

 

[Chuee]

Sorry, you missed April fools by a few months

 

[Panta]

You can make the comparison that the stage altering mechanics are like Norfair.

Hanenbow is an interesting map nonetheleast.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The first one mentioning any character for justify the ban, saying it breaks the game here, is simply ******** (anyone besides Nicole, her argument was awesome).

 

[TL OWNS U]

anyways, the rule is that IF you singlehandedly get the flower to appear, you win the game instantly.

Wait what? You mean the game is programed to give you the win if you get the flower or is that a tournament rule?

 

[Ussi]

There was a coding error for that one event in event mode.

 

[FOUREYES]

I despise Hanenbow with every fiber of my being, but I kinda see your point. IMO it's basically just banned because it's a weird stage with no central platform and can be altered. I really want to see someone circle camp effectively on it so I can justify my hatred for that stupid, awful stage.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Circle camping

/thread

 

[Spelt]

You've got to be kidding me.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

In the Stage Discussion forum, MetalMusicMan justifies Hanenbow's constant ban in tournaments by saying that "the odd layout and various platforms cause gameplay to feel very different here compared to nearly every other stage."

I don't understand how that is an argument. In fact, in my opinion, it is not.

He also says that Hanenbow promotes camping, but aren't there many other maps that promote camping and that are widely regarded as counterpick stages?

Honestly, I don't see why this stage should be banned.

The Stage Analysis Project does not make arguments or attempt to justify, or even recommend, that ANY stage should (or should not) be banned. It merely serves as an explanation of why regions/people who do (or don't) ban a stage do so.



Gameplay IS different there from almost every other stage, this is a fact. There is no attempt to say whether it should (or should not) be banned because of that fact.

 

[Roie]

Being different than every other stage is not justification for a ban.
People not liking it is not justification for a ban.
Stage balance is not justification for a ban.

 

[Tin Man]

Wow @ BBR members trolling so hard...

 

[T-block]

Kay guys, you've had your fun.

No, there's no coding error or anything that dictates the one who makes the flower appear should win.

Hanenbow is banned mostly because the platform configuration enables extremely strong runaway tactics, especially from characters with high vertical mobility, such as Sonic and Fox.

 

[Ussi]

People rioting till the stage is gone warrents a ban

People hated picto after a while, it got removed... People are hating on RC/brinstar, but people are also voicing they should be legal... (though EU has gotten rid of it and has positive feedback)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

People rioting till the stage is gone warrents a ban

People hated picto after a while, it got removed... People are hating on RC/brinstar, but people are also voicing they should be legal... (though EU has gotten rid of it and has positive feedback)

People have disliked brinstar and rainbow cruise since melee. But it was only half of the audience. The other half liked it. It's like the MK ban thing. 50% for and 50% against. That just leaves a lot of stalemates and stuff staying the way it as been.

Anyway, would anyone agree to play on this stage if someone asked if the next match could be played on it?

 

[WindMajor]

I would, since I play Toon Link.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I'd like to point out that I tried out the flower thing just because it sounded cool.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious why the stage is banned.

-Circle camping
-Ease of run-away tactics
-Easy stage manipulation

The fact that the stage can be manipulated the way it is alone makes it pretty close to ban-worthy. Competitive play doesn't mean all stages have to be static, but there's a line between non-static and completely out-of-the-way non-static. Having a few moving platforms or something is fine. But when every part of the playable stage can be moved, then we run into a problem.

Besides that, if you have good mobility, timing out is all but a non-issue. I was actually playing Ganon dittos on Hanenbow with Viva a few nights ago and even Ganon can time himself out. That's sort of bewildering if you ask me.

If you can run on competitive stages, there's no reason why Hanenbow running would be any more difficult. It's way too open and gives way too many options to do some damage then run the timer. It also changes gameplay drastically, as players now have to traverse an extremely dynamic stage that is constantly being changed rather than at least knowing the stage below you may not change and **** you over before you land.

Also, the fish can kill you if three or more cross paths right on top of your character. It deals a considerable amount of knockback and around 30-40% damage depending on how many fish cross.

 

[WindMajor]

There's nothing wrong with stage manipulation at all though. The only thing wrong with Hanenbow is the camping, cause this stage is way too large for 1v1 play, just like Temple and New Pork City.

Also, Ganon timing Ganon out doesn't surprise me at all. The same can be done with two cars running in a circle at the same speed.

 

[T-block]

The fact that the stage can be manipulated the way it is alone makes it pretty close to ban-worthy. Competitive play doesn't mean all stages have to be static, but there's a line between non-static and completely out-of-the-way non-static. Having a few moving platforms or something is fine. But when every part of the playable stage can be moved, then we run into a problem.

This entire paragraph is just you saying something is a problem without saying why. Don't assume others have the same preconceptions of the game as you do. What if I said Final Destination should be banned because "having only a few platforms or something is fine. But when there are NO platforms at all, then we run into a problem"?

And yeah, Ganon forcing a timeout isn't impressive when you consider that the person he is running away from is no faster lol

 

[vVv Rapture]

I've always been under the assumption the second Ganon is slower than any first Ganon because second Ganon has more swagger than first Ganon, thus havng to walk with a gangster limp.

In terms of platforms, I was just talking about how static a stage is. FD is still static without platforms. Hanenbow is very un-static with or without platforms.

I'm just not a big fan of, well, certain types of stage manipulation, which I guess I could have clarified. When the entire stage can change, I find that to be a problem. When you can split Brinstar by hitting those orb things over and over again, I don't. I don't like Brinstar, but not for that reason.

T-block, you're right, preconceptions I should have clarified. Regardless, my points still stand. Circle camping is still bad, as are easy run-away tactics.

Though, to be honest, Hanenbow is a cool stage. Just not fit for competitive player tbh.

 

[WindMajor]

Even if stage manipulation were to cover the entire stage, that's just a quality of the stage, you know, a counterpick quality. It's really janky, yeah, but that's about it. There's nothing (to my knowledge) about those jittery floors that make the stage ill suited for competitive play on its own.

Regardless, the rest of your points still stand, and I agree with them.

 

[M@v]

Oh look, another stage metaknight would completely dominate on. Have fun navigating the stage while his movement isn't impaired what so ever.

 

[T-block]

I think Game and Watch would beat MK on this stage...

/theorycraft

 

[M@v]

With what.....

also there are 0 ledges if I remember correctly. Or does the the one leaf on the left have one?

 

[Life]

Left leaf has a ledge, yes. I think there might be a couple more, it's been a while since I played the stage.

 

[T-block]

Pretty sure the bottom leaves have ledges too.

Why wouldn't GaW win? Play here is very focused on aerial combat, and the platform configuration is like a GaW playground x.x

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Oh look, another stage metaknight would completely dominate on. Have fun navigating the stage while his movement isn't impaired what so ever.

I'm not so sure about that. Every character's movements are a bit whacky on this stage due to moving parts. If you see MK use tornado, then I doubt he will ever manage to get the "zero" lag height correct after using tornado. Not sure how it would mess up shielding though and if it would help pokes. But, there are certain risks to be wary off since all of MK's methods of recovery minus glide/jumps attack the stage possibly ruining his own recovery if the stage goes up when he needed it to go down.

And only the lower leaves have ledges, yes.

 

[ryuu seika]

I would ban this stage on the grounds that it causes ear pain and totally disregard how competitively viable it may or may not be. That's just me though.

 

[John12346]

imo

MK can easily glide all the way from the bottom right leaf to the bottom left area of the stage, so...

The stage's aesthetics are nice, though.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

The way I see it, it's just a Norfair without lava and a few extra platforms.

 

[Tesh]

Nadoing someone on those platforms must be fun though. I'm assuming the leaf would just spaz out, no way u would be able to angle ur shield properly

 

[ryuu seika]

That sounds like a bad thing....

 

[AlphaZealot]

To be honest: Hananbow is one of those stages that got banned just cause it seems janky. Run-away camping is no worse than any other stage. Circle camping is impossible on this stage.

There is no way to resurrect the stage from the dead though because people commonly cite (as you've seen in this thread) incorrect things about the stage. It is probably impossible to convince 96% of people who already believe something incorrectly otherwise.

 

[BSP]

Good luck trying to catch sonic there

 

[ryuu seika]

Good luck trying to catch rock kirby there.

 

[T-block]

To be honest: Hananbow is one of those stages that got banned just cause it seems janky. Run-away camping is no worse than any other stage. Circle camping is impossible on this stage.

There is no way to resurrect the stage from the dead though because people commonly cite (as you've seen in this thread) incorrect things about the stage. It is probably impossible to convince 96% of people who already believe something incorrectly otherwise.

I disagree.

I think very few characters will be able to catch Fox on this stage.

 

[Tesh]

or metaknight
in this game, it doesnt even take a hard circle really to be broken, it just has to be a good enough spot that your opponent has to take a major risk to get to you

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sonic+hanenbow=too good especially in doubles.

But anyway i do think hanenbow is a good stage as a CP simply because there's not too much wrong other then the fact it's hard to catch some of the faster characters.