Hanenbow's ban is unjustified.

[AlphaZealot]

Everyone just proved my point. Since my post, MK, Kirby, Fox, and Sonic have all been mentioned as uncatchable. FOUR characters can't be uncatchable - only one can.

Make up your minds why this stage is screwed up.

And none of this was ever evidenced in tournament, btw. This stage got banned within a month or two of the game being released basically because the stage feels janky and is therefor stupid. Every other reason was thought of after the fact to justify it's banning by NON-TO's. TO's just banned it cause the stage was stupid and with all the stages still around back then, no one would really care and there were enough theory crafters out there to put out random (usually false) information.

 

[T-block]

I think the Kirby example was a joke. In any case, even so, if only MK, Fox and Sonic can catch each other, doesn't that still lead to overcentralization? What if your opponent CPs to Hanenbow? Don't you have to pick one of these characters, or risk losing as soon as you lose the lead?

Why is Spear Pillar banned then? There can only be one character who is uncatchable, right?

I had it legal in doubles about a year ago. Didn't really see any problems with it actually.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I swear to Einstein, when SSB4 comes out, we had better damn well learn from our experiences with Brawl and keep everything legal for at least a year of hardcore competitive testing, if not two years. Stop these problems before they start.

 

[ryuu seika]

Everyone just proved my point. Since my post, MK, Kirby, Fox, and Sonic have all been mentioned as uncatchable. FOUR characters can't be uncatchable - only one can.

I only stated that Rockform Kirby was probably uncatchable. Besides the change to this one move, kirby would still be as useless as ever. Maybe even more so due to the inability to swallowcide.

 

[T-block]

I swear to Einstein, when SSB4 comes out, we had better damn well learn from our experiences with Brawl and keep everything legal for at least a year of hardcore competitive testing, if not two years. Stop these problems before they start.

I don't think that will fix anything. It's just the mentality.

Look at how many people know how to play on Brinstar and still want it banned. There will always be that school of thought that wants the stage to interfere as little as possible.

I only stated that Rockform Kirby was probably uncatchable. Besides the change to this one move, kirby would still be as useless as ever. Maybe even more so due to the inability to swallowcide.

Oh boy.

Why can't Kirby Swallowcide? =P

 

[ryuu seika]

Why can't Kirby Swallowcide? =P

Water, duh.

 

[T-block]

I don't even know if you're trolling.

If you are, stop.
If you aren't, go play the stage once lol

 

[AlphaZealot]

I think the Kirby example was a joke. In any case, even so, if only MK, Fox and Sonic can catch each other, doesn't that still lead to overcentralization? What if your opponent CPs to Hanenbow? Don't you have to pick one of these characters, or risk losing as soon as you get the lead?

Oh, I'm not even claiming there are any uncatchable characters (that is other people, and they are contradicting themselves). I think the ability to run away on Hananbow is about as doable as on Smashville (if not even harder). These run away strategies were never once seen in tournament play: it is just theory craft, really.

 

[T-block]

In that case, I'm just pointing out there's no contradiction

But you're right in that the points against this stage are largely theorycraft. I'll always support proper testing of stages.

 

[ryuu seika]

I think the Kirby example was a joke.

Obviously Stone is not a viable strategy but it is a much safer move here than on any other stage, so long as you get out of it in time.

I don't even know if you're trolling.
If you are, stop.
If you aren't, go play the stage once lol

So I really can swallowcide here? Awesome!
I guess I just never tried it while I was playing the stage...

 

[T-block]

Sounds to me like you've never played the stage at all. The water is fake water... it has no effect on your character.

 

[ryuu seika]

I honestly did. I owned noobs there back when I'd never played Brawl before. I really don't like the sound effects though so I don't play it anymore.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Can we please stop acting like anything we say about hanenbow will ever matter? When I said "Circle camping /thread" back on page one, I meant "stop talking about hanenbow, it's like discussing Mario Bros or Temple Hyrule; even if you're right you're going to lose credibility".

 

[ぱみゅ]

^ That.
In any case, by judging all of the posts, most of us agree with thread's title.

 

[WindMajor]

BPC's words are the word of God himself, and we should obviously listen to him since his words are godly and we all believe in God here and stuff.

...

...

...

...

Okay so back on topic, AZ is right. Although I do think that this stage is still too big for 1v1, I agree with what he says, and I still support it for 2v2 one day in the distant future.

 

[t3h Icy]

DDD's continuous jab is fun on the leaf.

 

[MechaWave]

I find this stage completely a counterpick option. I can see people picking it because of favorable options. Playing on this stage a few 1v1's it does feel different but it's still completely playable unlike other stages of the same category. I usually never pick Hanenbow because it's boring to me. The only problem I see with Hanenbow is how the top-left leaves are close to the blastline, it could easily disrupt doubles.

I swear to Einstein, when SSB4 comes out, we had better damn well learn from our experiences with Brawl and keep everything legal for at least a year of hardcore competitive testing, if not two years. Stop these problems before they start.

Totally agree with this. Just ban the stages with annoying stage hazards or are too large for competitive play.

 

[T-block]

BPC, just shut up if you don't want to contribute to discussion. I'm tired of seeing you whine about good discussions like this hurting our credibility, especially when your past record shows all too clearly that you know nothing about maintaining credibility.

Do we condemn and ridicule those who theorize about utopian societies just because they will never happen? No - such speculation can still give insight into real world situations; not to mention the fact that some people enjoy discussing such things.

Get over yourself.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Woah let's play nice here.

From my experience I never tested the stage, not like Mario Bros. or anything like that when I was asked to.

This stage, I'm not sure how it is easier or as easy as SV circle camping, I don't quite follow that one.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've played on this stage lots, just like every other stage. If camping is broken here, camping is broken on RC, Norfair and Smashville.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well what's there still to talk about? In a fairly large number of matchups, runaway and circle camping is pervasive and problematic. I'm fairly certain wario and MK could time out pretty much anyone on this stage without much effort.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Personally I see Rainbow Cruise as more problematic as Hanenbow.

I both hate and love this stage.

It looks so pretty

but

It's like the worst stage ever for Ness and Lucas

Yoshi really likes it though. Yoshi Bomb shenanigans YEAH.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well what's there still to talk about? In a fairly large number of matchups, runaway and circle camping is pervasive and problematic. I'm fairly certain wario and MK could time out pretty much anyone on this stage without much effort.

You need to learn the difference between circle camping and run away camping. If there are no solid parts to the stage, there is no circle.

You support Norfair being legal, right? The run away tactics on this stage are no stronger than the ones on Norfair. Just looking at the lay-out of the stages makes that pretty clear.

 

[Ghostbone]

You don't need a solid object to circle camp >.>

The question is whether it's possible to catch Wario if he just runs away on Hanenbow.

I'd say all the top+high tiers could definitely catch him there.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yes, you do, otherwise there is nothing stopping the player who is being camped from just cutting through the middle of the "circle" and hitting the other player.

It's the same reason why there is no circle on Distant Planet, or Norfair.

 

[Ghostbone]

Yes, you do, otherwise there is nothing stopping the player who is being camped from just cutting through the middle of the "circle" and hitting the other player.

You try and cut through the middle and the player circle camping can just jump over.
Though it depends on the character, I mean Wario would be able to easily run away from Ganon for a whole match, but he's going to fail against Pikachu.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Which is why it isn't a problem. It doesn't kill character viability any more than tactics we have already deemed as "legitimate" (King Dedede's chain grabs and Snake's camping, for example).

If a character is too bad to catch Wario on Hanenbow, then they are just a bad character.

 

[san.]

I used to accept the circle camping on hanenbow as just plain fact, but now I'm starting to waver on that thought. Fox does seem pretty hard to reach, but I think they'll be pressured if you shark the top leaves.

 

[MechaWave]

Well from what I'm seeing people are talking about circle camping and options favoring other characters moreso than others (hint hint, a counterpick). I must say, playing on this stage the few times I did, circle camping was negligible to the fight. The many platforms Hanenbow prevents a few options for circle camping, especially with the increased over-centralization of the center of the stage. Just shark the ers. ^-^

 

[san.]

After spending 20 minutes looking at the stage, I feel that it's not like you're unreachable, you're just really safe while running away most of the time.

Get caught in the corners and you're pretty much forced to fight.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Unless you are Meta Knight.

 

[Tin Man]

imo

MK can easily glide all the way from the bottom right leaf to the bottom left area of the stage, so...

The stage's aesthetics are nice, though.

I don't think this post got as many comments as it deserves lol.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If we're banning stages because of Metaknight.

Ban Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Smashville, Delfino Plaza, and Frigate Orpheon please.

Otherwise you can take "MK breaks the stage" arguments and shove them in a location that you can probably figure pretty easily.

 

[Asa]

Everyone just proved my point. Since my post, MK, Kirby, Fox, and Sonic have all been mentioned as uncatchable. FOUR characters can't be uncatchable - only one can.

Make up your minds why this stage is screwed up.

And none of this was ever evidenced in tournament, btw. This stage got banned within a month or two of the game being released basically because the stage feels janky and is therefor stupid. Every other reason was thought of after the fact to justify it's banning by NON-TO's. TO's just banned it cause the stage was stupid and with all the stages still around back then, no one would really care and there were enough theory crafters out there to put out random (usually false) information.

wrong. This stage was legal at GC's in the early months of the game, until bladewise (a MARTH main) proved how he could circle camp to win.

Check your facts az

love brick.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So he proved a tactic was broken in the first few months of the game.

You mean, back when we though King Dedede was the 5th best character in the game?

Yeaaaaaaah...

 

[MechaWave]

So he proved a tactic was broken in the first few months of the game.

You mean, back when we though King Dedede was the 5th best character in the game?

Well then the opponent should fight fire with fire.

Oh and 3rd best. <__<

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I knew it was something stupidly high, lol3rd.

 

[Ghostbone]

Pretty sure ROB was 5th or something back then lol.

I'll have to put this on my list of stages to eventually get around to testing....

 

[MechaWave]

Pretty sure ROB was 5th or something back then lol.

I'll have to put this on my list of stages to eventually get around to testing....

And ZSS was below Zelda.

And yes please test. Hanenbow needs more love. ;~;

 

[Supreme Dirt]

oh my god loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Pit is in high tier

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Sonic is fifth worst

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


Ah, that made my day.

Old tier lists are the best.


Anyways... I personally think this stage should be legal. I can catch people on Hanenbow with Dedede.

Which for those who don't know is the overall slowest character in the game.