Greater Toronto Area Thread - The other other other other other other other other Pokemon Thread

[-Googs]

radiohead sucks

 

[Desh]

What're people doing this evening? Anyone wanna come over for some smash? I'm in woodbridge still, 15 minutes from york

 

[idea]

eh, sorry...kind of short notice and i'm already gonna be playing smash this weekend.

 

[Windrose]

Project M is so addictive....

 

[Acidile]

Project M

I really like the concept, but I see the entire thing as pretty tragic. For the amount of effort they are putting into it, and the amount of potential it has, it's really limited in adoption rate it just because it's a mod.

Regarding the demo, it's super-well done. The problem is, for now Melee is still a bit better, while PM is a bit 'fresher'. Once the 'omgnewstuff' wore off, it turned into me playing Sheik/Puff vs. Melee high tiers over and over again. When this happened, I felt sorta clueless as to why I was even playing PM, especially because I'm really interested in getting better at melee atm.

Maybe with tons of new characters and a bit more tweaking it will be 'fun' to play for a lot longer. But when I want to play lol4srs, will there EVER be a reason not to go back to melee?

 

[Windrose]

I'm actually just using it now cuz it allows c-stick in training mode (I don't have AR) and alot of the physics are the same so it can't be that bad right? :S (or is this a bad idea)

 

[idea]

Project M

I really like the concept, but I see the entire thing as pretty tragic. For the amount of effort they are putting into, and the amount of potential it has, it's really limited in adopt rate it just because it's a mod.

Regarding the demo, it's super-well done. The problem is, for now Melee is still a bit better, while PM is a bit 'fresher'. Once the 'omgnewstuff' wore off, it turned into me playing Sheik/Puff vs. Melee high tiers over and over again. When this happened, I felt sorta clueless as to why I was even playing PM, especially because I'm really interested in getting better at melee atm.

Maybe with tons of new characters and a bit more tweaking it will be 'fun' to play for a lot longer. But when I want to play lol4srs, will there EVER be a reason not to go back to melee?

yeah, i know what you mean. it's really good but if it's in trouble if it's trying to fill the same niche as melee.

i'm looking forward to when they add more of the new characters, though. i think that's the advantage it has. you can't play metaknight or wario in melee. snake seems pretty fun. i also really like project M zelda, cause she retains some of the power on her smashes and (other) aerials she had in brawl.

ike should be fun too. i wanna like, dair to charged reverse fsmash people.

I'm actually just using it now cuz it allows c-stick in training mode (I don't have AR) and alot of the physics are the same so it can't be that bad right? :S (or is this a bad idea)

the physics still seem different enough. (i downloaded it last night after people were talking about it) just play against lv 1's in melee for c-stick practice.

 

[Odessa]

Project Melee doesn't surpass Melee as of yet.

The main bonus is the character viability and overall balance. Also, Snake is an absolute monster.

Granted, it is still pre-beta, and if anyone wants to play Project Melee, I have the hack. It has enormous potential, but for obvious reasons it's a rough diamond at this rate rather than a polished one.

Once they fix DI and landing detection, things will run a lot smoother. I main Falco, Fox feels way too different.

 

[idea]

it's never gonna surpass melee <_< why would it?

 

[Acidile]

it's never gonna surpass melee <_< why would it?

As an actual game, it certainly has the potential to, because they can keep changing / tweaking it until it is. As for actual popularity and community, I have a hard time seeing how it possibly could.

 

[Odessa]

it's never gonna surpass melee <_< why would it?

This hack actually has a ton of followers and hype.

If Project Melee is balanced perfectly, and all the errors are fixed, who knows?

Until then, no idea.

 

[Cyan_]

just for the sole reason that it's a hack, it will never become more popular than melee

 

[idea]

why would you want it to be balanced? lol i don't want falco getting any worse. i like him just the way he is...broken as ****.

to be honest i'd be fine with it if rest only killed at like 50. i'd just start comboing into it more.



anyway, on a mostly unrelated note

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vziStKcg6g&feature=related

never gets old

i like how he knees falco at 88% after the hit in the middle of dreamland and immediately taunts. to them, it's a guaranteed kill.

 

[Geist]

According to the P:M team's philosophy, they're not nerfing anything intentionally, so falco will remain broken, and technically won't get worse (in theory). Of course though, now you have the variables of other potential broken characters, so he could relatively get worse if they overcompensate on someone else. :l

 

[Lanowen]

Just like Cyan_ said, I also somehow doubt project M could get as polished as something like Melee, it being a hack.

 

[Rikana]

I also agree on that. I don't think it'll ever be as polished as Melee. But, it has potential to become better in its own way. Regardless, it doesn't hurt to play it. The skills transfer over quite easily.

 

[JPOBS]

Melee isn't polished at all what are you guys talking about. its mostly just a bunch glitches/exploits that make it good for competitive play. without the glitches, its pretty terrible.

We're actually extremely lucky that the top 7 or so characters happen to be so evenly matched, its a blessing by luck, not by design.

 

[Windrose]

Okay, I can't stand project M anymore. It's messing up all my tech skills argh. Gotta get everything back together.

 

[idea]

partly by luck, partly by design. as i understand it a lot of work went into melee, and it wouldn't be fair to discount all of that just because some of its exploits have become so prominent. there's a solid game under there.

i haven't even been thinking of project m in comparison to melee at all, i've always just seen it as an alternative. like brawl, except fun.

 

[sauc3]

speaking about the evolution of fighting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkh6j7RMqk

**** gets real around 20s.

 

[Windrose]

speaking about the evolution of fighting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkh6j7RMqk

**** gets real around 20s.

The green marth should've wavedashed back out of shield.

 

[Summonedfist]

Yeah, I got it fixed. Project M doesn't work with SD hc cards aparently =( And you can only use SD cards that are 2GB or less.

I'm actually enjoying playing against computers here... they know how to tech and mix up recoveries and are overall smarter than the melee computers that just jab.

wiis can only read 2GB or less SD cards




also, melee is better cuz that's what P:M is aiming for lol
it's like the truth that can never be reached, or else life would have no meaning haha

 

[KirbyKaze]

@ Project: M

The idea that you can create 26 different characters each with their own unique powers and abilities, stick them in a game, and still imbue them all with a reasonably similar chance of success in a competitive environment totally baffles me. I don't believe in complete game balance. I don't believe it's necessary for a game to be fun or successful. And I'm not even sure we understand games well enough to be able to create such a thing yet, particularly if the stipulation is that each character has to be different (since we're using Melee characters, who are all different).

At any rate, while it might be a fun game to screw around with disgruntled Brawl players or whatever, but I am going to stick to the original work. On that note, half the fun of playing Pichu or whoever is knowing they suck but winning anyways. And that's something your balanced nonsense will never have!

@ DBR presents: Silence

IKM2 ruined Falcon combo videos prior to it for me. I can never watch Silence and truly appreciate its worth again. IKM2 was just way too good and set the bar pretty high for future Falcon videos. Though the ones that came out after were definitely acceptable. I think after it we got Mindreader, WTFhax, and Mango's mini combo vid, plus another SS combo video that nobody probably knows about or remembers, because SS's combos have become increasingly boring as his region learns how to DI.

Also, sort of related. The end of IKM1 where Scar is playing some random Marth is really funny.

@ Pichu from balance discussion earlier

I forgot to tell you guys, Pichu is officially better than Kirby now. Kirby's U-tilt has nothing on this:

 

[shanus]

@ Project: M

The idea that you can create 26 different characters each with their own unique powers and abilities, stick them in a game, and still imbue them all with a reasonably similar chance of success in a competitive environment totally baffles me. I don't believe in complete game balance. I don't believe it's necessary for a game to be fun or successful. And I'm not even sure we understand games well enough to be able to create such a thing yet, particularly if the stipulation is that each character has to be different (since we're using Melee characters, who are all different).

At any rate, while it might be a fun game to screw around with disgruntled Brawl players or whatever, but I am going to stick to the original work. On that note, half the fun of playing Pichu or whoever is knowing they suck but winning anyways. And that's something your balanced nonsense will never have!

We don't think we can make a game of total balance. However, since we are using the melee template as a base, we can make informed decisions on how to improve characters who performed poorly. Adding brawl characters to this base of course adds additional uncertainty regarding balance, and no matter what it will cause tiers. However, tiers exist in any fighting game with more than 1 character. However, these changes and new characters are also Project M's greatest asset as it makes it a fresh new spin on smash.

Now this is what I think is the sore spot for a lot of melee players. We have built a game and acknowledge its not a melee replacement, its meant to be a game where you could play melee or Project M at any time for whatever reason you want. We aren't forcing this on anyone, and if anything, I think it can help grow both the melee and brawl community as it bridges the gap across both. I think this sums it up best for me:

The biggest obstacle is clearly the community.


The fact is that the community is so set that it won't put in the time to get used to that 5% that just makes it "feel" a tiny bit different in order to get all of those advantages. This is probably what's needed to grow the melee community and bring it into the next generation. If the community won't accept that it's ship has come, it's clear that there's no getting through to it.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

wiis can only read 2GB or less SD cards

wiis can read SD cards bigger than 2GB, but brawl cant

i learned this the hard way when i was wondering why homebrew channel was working without any problems but my custum music/infinite replays werent working at all, turns out it was just because my SD card was 4GB

 

[idea]

@ DBR presents: Silence

yeah, it's easier to appreciate when i remember that it came out 3 months before my first tournament.

We don't think we can make a game of total balance. However, since we are using the melee template as a base, we can make informed decisions on how to improve characters who performed poorly. Adding brawl characters to this base of course adds additional uncertainty regarding balance, and no matter what it will cause tiers. However, tiers exist in any fighting game with more than 1 character. However, these changes and new characters are also Project M's greatest asset as it makes it a fresh new spin on smash.

Now this is what I think is the sore spot for a lot of melee players. We have built a game and acknowledge its not a melee replacement, its meant to be a game where you could play melee or Project M at any time for whatever reason you want. We aren't forcing this on anyone, and if anything, I think it can help grow both the melee and brawl community as it bridges the gap across both. I think this sums it up best for me:

oh hai there

good job so far. thanks for keeping zelda's upsmash lol

i think the best project m can do is to have side tournaments at all major nationals. i'd be happy with that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Now this is what I think is the sore spot for a lot of melee players. We have built a game and acknowledge its not a melee replacement, its meant to be a game where you could play melee or Project M at any time for whatever reason you want. We aren't forcing this on anyone, and if anything, I think it can help grow both the melee and brawl community as it bridges the gap across both.

I'm quoting this mainly to show off my spiffy new sig.

 

[Drolian]

Does Project M have boost grabbing?

 

[Rikana]

I'm assuming boost grabbing is something in Brawl as I never heard of it in Melee. PM has JC grabs though which I would imagine is better than boost grabbing as grabbing can't get any better than JC grabs.

Edit: I like david's new spiffy sig.

Edit2: sig2spiffy.

Edit: and new.

 

[idea]

it's in melee too, you just don't hear about it much. you dash attack then cancel it with a grab so you just standing grab while sliding.

and yeah, project melee has JC grabbing so it would make sense if it had boost grabbing. if not yet then i assume it still will in the future.

speaking of boost grabbing, i tried it the other day with marth in melee and it seemed pretty damned good. i guess the reason it's never used is that marth doesn't need his grab to be any better?

drolian i've still never met you! wtf.

 

[Drolian]

I'm assuming boost grabbing is something in Brawl as I never heard of it in Melee. PM has JC grabs though which I would imagine is better than boost grabbing as grabbing can't get any better than JC grabs.

Edit: I like david's new spiffy sig.

Edit2: sig2spiffy.

Edit: and new.

Boost grabbing is actually a melee technique that everyone can do but it's only beneficial for like Fox and Sheik (it's very noticable with them).

It's when you dash attack and cancel it with a grab, so you gain the additional distance of the dash attack but with a grab.

lolol idea, it's probably because I used to play a long time ago and took the longest break and started playing again recently. Back when I did play I didn't really travel much because of asian parent johns. I live in Waterloo now, though.

 

[Desh]

^^^ Dude are you playing again ?

 

[Drolian]

Yas I am!
Are you guys?

 

[Desh]

You guys being who? Come to the tournament on the 20th!

 

[Drolian]

Link to thread?

 

[Desh]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291911
boopiedoopdoopbadoop

 

[idea]

or better yet, go to the tournament in waterloo this saturday.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286450

 

[JPOBS]

My biggest concern for Project M when it comes to me being able to take it seriously is this:

Im ok with them replicating melee and using a lot of melee tactics to make brawl more fun. But, i will never ever play Project M seriously (or for more than a few hours) if its risks messing with my melee tech skill/timing.

the biggest problem is that if the game is going to attempt to be similar enough to melee to include L-canceling, then it damn well be perfectly similar and timing are exact. This is includes everything from shield stun, hitlag, l-canceling, land detection, jump frames etc.
I depend a lot on my intuitive knowledge of frame data/timing in melee to do stuff. If Project M is alot like melee but has slightly different timings on some aspects, then i wont bother to play it very much.

this has nothing to do with the qualit yof the game. it could be a swell game but if it hinders my ability to play the game i really enjoy, then it can kick rocks.

 

[Rikana]

But PM can kick rocks.

Spoiler

edit: no. i lied. it cant. zard can smash rocks though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So apparently Vwins's entire car minus himself flopped for Pound 5.

Registration ends tomorrow so he wants to know if anyone from Josh's car or people taking the bus or people spontaneously interested in going are interested in going to Pound 5 with him in his car.

He'd be coming on Thursday to my house and then be leaving on Friday at noon.

Ideally he wants a second driver.

Let me know so I can get back to him. I do not recommend refunding or canceling anything yet until he's registered, on the off chance he loses interest. PM me, PM him, or send it to his email address (which you can get through me).