Granny, 72, Having A Baby With Her Grandson

[Tacel]

So you mean to say there should be no laws because some people break them anyways?

Noooo. Did I say that?

Yeah TAL, that logic doesn't really work.

You mean to say that if we abolished all laws, the world would remain the same as it is today? I don't think so.

I said, "PEOPLE" not, "EVERYBODY." Many don't commit crimes because of the consequences. Law are good. They keep us safe. Some people break the law. Others don't. That's what I meant.
I'm not a corrupted human being.

What I probably should have added: Barely anybody does it now. A law won't change much. It's not much of a crime either.

Also, I am against laws that keep lovers apart. No matter what, it's crule to end happiness. Some people feel the same way. Therefore, a law might not even pass.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Incest isn't much of a crime?

Knowingly increasing the chances of your child getting diseases from birth is a crime in my book. It's not much different than genetically engineering a disease onto your child.

 

[Tacel]

Incest isn't much of a crime?

Knowingly increasing the chances of your child getting diseases from birth is a crime in my book. It's not much different than genetically engineering a disease onto your child.

Then they should make a law that they need to have a surrogate mother instead of just abolish the whole thing in general.

 

[global-wolf]

Having a family tendency towards a disease or getting older increases the chance of the baby having a birth defect. Are they crimes? No.

 

[Deleted member]

We know the grandmother is getting an surrogate, but it's very well possible for her to get pregnant if she wanted to.

If I recall correctly, an mom gave birth to twins at age sixty-six. The grandmother might not have been far off from being able to get pregnant without a surrogated mother.

 

[Fuelbi]

Yeah TAL, that logic doesn't really work.

You mean to say that if we abolished all laws, the world would remain the same as it is today? I don't think so.

He's not saying that you should abolish every law. I think what he means to say is that for example, I don't think there is an actual law that says "You will not murder anyone" (unless you take the 10 commandments into account) because it is an unspoken rule you're not supposed to kill anyone. I mean it's not a law, but since it has been established that murder is immoral and wrong, you have to be punished for it.

Also, incest shouldn't be made illegal. Maybe the means you have a kid should like for example this situation, but maybe a situation where you get a surrogate mother to have the baby. Yes, it is unfair that it is probable that the father or mother (whichever one is older) will die first leaving the child with only a mother/father and the ridicule of his classmates possibly, but it is much MUCH better than having to deal with deformities and mental disabilities as well.

 

[GoldShadow]

We know the grandmother is getting an surrogate, but it's very well possible for her to get pregnant if she wanted to.

If I recall correctly, an mom gave birth to twins at age sixty-six. The grandmother might not have been far off from being able to get pregnant without a surrogated mother.

Heard of a thing called menopause?

66 is an outlier, not the rule, and I would bet a hefty sum of cash that this woman cannot get pregnant.

Even if she could, the physical stress of pregnancy and age do not go well together.

 

[Luigitoilet]

He's not saying that you should abolish every law. I think what he means to say is that for example, I don't think there is an actual law that says "You will not murder anyone" (unless you take the 10 commandments into account) because it is an unspoken rule you're not supposed to kill anyone. I mean it's not a law, but since it has been established that murder is immoral and wrong, you have to be punished for it.

What do you think homicide/manslaughter/1st or 2nd degree murder means? Yes, people who murder other people are actually breaking a real law! Whoaaa!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

 

[Tacel]

This whole concept is rare. How many times have you heard of this? How many times have you heard of a relationship like this being successful?

Making a law for this is like making a law for climbing skyscrapers in public. How often do people do it?

Besides, just like roacherman said, it's like an unwritten rule. Don't have babies with your relatives. Most people think that it's wrong. Probably 99% of all people. That 1% probably can't find any other relatives that would want to have children with them. This is really rare. A law seems unnecessary. Help from a docter would be best.

 

[Pluvia]

Murder is an unwritten rule? Are you people being serious?

Let take away the murder laws and see what happens.

 

[StinkomanFan]

Making a law for this is like making a law for climbing skyscrapers in public. How often do people do it?

About that...... Several people have been arrested for climbing skyscrapers as they are "Trespassing", "Disturbing the Peace", Etc.

 

[Fuelbi]

What do you think homicide/manslaughter/1st or 2nd degree murder means? Yes, people who murder other people are actually breaking a real law! Whoaaa!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

But see homicide/manslaughter/1st/2nd degree murder is more like going into depth into what kind of murder you just did. For example, we have established manslaughter because we are specifying what kind of killing you just did and how you can be punished for an unintentional kill. It's not like we have an actual law that says "Thou shalt not kill" (yes I just quoted the bible). It would be too time consuming and most people don't kill that anyways. Actually murder is among the least done crimes here, but the reason why we hear about murder so much is because the news can't attract people with happy news, which must rely on bad news. Source? My **** class.

 

[Tacel]

About that...... Several people have been arrested for climbing skyscrapers as they are "Trespassing", "Disturbing the Peace", Etc.

I meant a law for just climbing skyscrapers in public. (I used a bad example. I know.)
Yes, several people have climbed skyscrapers in public, but that's very small compared the population of the United States, which was the point that I was trying to get across.

 

[Professor :3]

Nuke the muslims, give the death penalty for those who are incestous and end up giving birth to a super-tard child and this world will be a much more functional and better place. Deep down you all agree with me.

 

[1048576]

Incest isn't much of a crime?

Knowingly increasing the chances of your child getting diseases from birth is a crime in my book. It's not much different than genetically engineering a disease onto your child.

Then we should also ban dumb and weak people from breeding. And have we even established how much the risk of these diseases increases from incest?

They can get a screening and an abortion later.

If you aren't pro-eugenics, then you shouldn't be making this argument.

I hate repeating myself.

 

[Sizzle]

Indiana law declares surrogacy contracts unenforceable as against public policy. Detail: State law declares surrogacy contracts "void and unenforceable.” Specifically, the law lists several broad contractual terms that, if any is included, void a surrogacy agreement. Such forbidden terms include requiring the surrogate to provide a gamete (a mature sexual reproductive cell) to conceive a child, become pregnant herself or waive her parental rights or duties — provisions typically at the heart of any meaningful traditional (in which the surrogate mother is the biological contributor of the egg) or gestational (in which the surrogate mother is not the biological contributor of the egg) surrogacy agreement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy#Indiana

Interesting, even though this takes place outside of the US.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Nuke the muslims, give the death penalty for those who are incestous and end up giving birth to a super-tard child and this world will be a much more functional and better place. Deep down you all agree with me.

either you're dumb or being sarcastic..........

murder is an unwritten law?! woah.

 

[Mic_128]

F
I guess it's not so...uh, strange if you take that into account. They were strangers when they met.

No they weren't. It wasn't "Fall in love, oh look we're related." It was "Hi, you're my grandmother. *Falls in love*" They knew who they were.

But see homicide/manslaughter/1st/2nd degree murder is more like going into depth into what kind of murder you just did. For example, we have established manslaughter because we are specifying what kind of killing you just did and how you can be punished for an unintentional kill. It's not like we have an actual law that says "Thou shalt not kill"

Because there are varying ways of killing people, each in their own situation and context. Breaking into a house and murdering a family of 4 in cold blood is treated differently than a woman killing her abusive husband in the middle of her daily beating. Both are crimes, both are murder but aren't the same degree.

 

[CT Chia]

Haven't read the posts in the thread yet but this is so awkward lol

At least the problem with ridiculous cross generation incest breeding isn't involved since it's not only a surrogate mother, but also a doner egg. It's just going to be awful for the kid having his/her mom being that old. I hate to say such things, but his mom will likely be dead before they are 30 years old.

 

[Mic_128]

His mother will likely be dead before it reaches double digits

 

[1048576]

That's true, and that does make it worse, but it still doesn't seem morally objectionable to me, since A.) I'm okay with sickly younger people having children, and B.) Children of single parents don't jump out at me as maladjusted.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Nuke the muslims, give the death penalty for those who are incestous and end up giving birth to a super-tard child and this world will be a much more functional and better place. Deep down you all agree with me.

I really do think you joined these forums to be an *******.

 

[Fuelbi]

B.) Children of single parents don't jump out at me as maladjusted.

Its not as much as that as much as the fact that his mother just died due to old age... you know any other person who has told you that his mother died to old age?

 

[Luigitoilet]

Its not as much as that as much as the fact that his mother just died due to old age... you know any other person who has told you that his mother died to old age?

First of all, many people die of old age. Many of these people are parents.

Secondly, the damage to the child will be their ostracization from the rest of society. Imagine going to school and everyone knew who your parents were.

 

[BBQTV]

unless noone finds out

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Then we should also ban dumb and weak people from breeding. And have we even established how much the risk of these diseases increases from incest?

Intelligence is not a genetic trait. People with "dumb" parents can go on to be brilliant, and vice versa. Weak is not genetic either. People become strong and intelligent through choices they make in life, not their parents.

 

[BBQTV]

Intelligence is not a genetic trait. People with "dumb" parents can go on to be brilliant, and vice versa. Weak is not genetic either. People become strong and intelligent through choices they make in life, not their parents.

what if someone cuts their arm and legs and hits their brain so hard it gives them braindamage

 

[GoldShadow]

Vrael is correct, to an extent.

There is certainly some heritability in traits like intelligence, strength, mathematical ability, etc. But these are determined mostly by environment, not genes.

 

[UberMario]

Strength is definitely inheritable, the others . . not quite to the same extent.

 

[GoldShadow]

Strength is definitely inheritable, the others . . not quite to the same extent.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Fuelbi]

What about mental diseases? Isn't there heritable diseases that affect your brain or something?

 

[Mic_128]

unless noone finds out

Yeah, good luck with that. Unless the kid's getting taxi rides to and from school until they're old enough to walk by themselves, people are gonna know.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Vrael is correct, to an extent.

There is certainly some heritability in traits like intelligence, strength, mathematical ability, etc. But these are determined mostly by environment, not genes.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But (to my knowledge) the genetic traits for things like strength and intelligence determine more of the potential to become intelligent than actual intelligence.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jonas]

Nuke the muslims, give the death penalty for those who are incestous and end up giving birth to a super-tard child and this world will be a much more functional and better place. Deep down you all agree with me.

Yes, if we destroy everyone else we will have a world where everyone agrees with each other. It would be a better place.
However, there are various ethical reasons why you just can't do something like that. I personally think that your suggestion is horrible and perverse. I take comfort in tknowing that you're probably not serious.

 

[Mic_128]

Why are people replying to such an obvious troll? :/

 

[El Nino]

No they weren't. It wasn't "Fall in love, oh look we're related." It was "Hi, you're my grandmother. *Falls in love*" They knew who they were.

Well, the way I'm thinking, having a long-lost relative suddenly step into your life one day doesn't make them any less of a stranger to you. You know, intellectually, that they are your relative, but you didn't grow up with them, so you don't have any sense of familiarity with them. You don't have that pre-established bond/relationship that comes from growing up with someone. Growing up with someone causes certain unspoken guidelines to be laid down. Without that foundation, I would think it'd be an "anything goes" situation.

Secondly, the damage to the child will be their ostracization from the rest of society. Imagine going to school and everyone knew who your parents were.

This is true.

Unfortunately, that is also what they say when same-sex couples want to adopt. So. I might have to withhold judgment in this case, just to stay consistent. I totally missed the part about them having a donor egg.

I guess it doesn't matter.

Incest is taboo for reasons similar to why homosexuality is/was taboo. It interferes with successful procreation. It's also rare to hear of cases of incest that are not abuse. But when it isn't abuse, it isn't abuse. And I guess it's none of my business.

 

[Teran]

Granny is truly the queen of cougars.

 

[Professor :3]

Why are people replying to such an obvious troll? :/

No, I'm being absolutely serious. Muslims have done naught but **** up this world, and they deserve to be executed for it.

 

[Luigitoilet]

What do Muslims have to do with anything?

 

[Professor :3]

What do Muslims have to do with anything?

They have to marry in to their own family, their cousins.