Granny, 72, Having A Baby With Her Grandson

[Indigo Jeans]

Incest is the best, it puts your grandson to the test.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Looking back on this, I find it wildly hilarious that this turned into an mislocated debate about whether strength is a trait or not.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

We're living in a society where people are healthier (Unless you count Africa), people live longer, and lives are better. Back in the 18th century, most people died before reaching forty years old. Today, the only two countries that follow this as a rule instead of the exception are Zambia and Zimbabwe (Correct me if I'm wrong) and they are some of the world's poorest nations.

However, this is the United State of America. We are healthier then ever, live until the mid-70s on average, and we live better lives.

What does that do to relate to this? It helps extend the childbearing years of mothers. Sooner or later, depending if fat foods and laziness doesn't drag us down eventually, don't be surprise if people will eventually have a lot longer childbearing years. It won't happen anytime soon, but don't be surprise if people in early 70s eventually start having kids without problems.

The pair paid $54,000 (£35,000) to find a surrogate mother and buy a donor egg to inseminate with Phil's sperm.

lrn2r ead

 

[Near²]

lrn2forum

Double posting isn't allowed and I don't think triple posting is either.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

lrn2havefun

As of now my infraction points are barely at 2 so s'all good.

 

[Near²]

S'all good then.

 

[Pikaville]

To everyone who thinks I just got owned: he basically said the same thing I said plus more.. and he still never reneged on calling strength a trait... and wait its not!

But yeah just look at the wall of words that don't address anything I brought against him and be amazed. I'll go read some more of my chemistry and kinesiology books while this guy pulls you unrelated stuff from google.

I'm pretty sure he addressed everything you said man.

Read his post again.

 

[GOD!]

I just did. Again.

He gave a beginner an ultra-wordy patterns of inheritance lesson that just agreed with what I said.

He mixes up "heritable trait" with "trait." And heritability is variation in a population that is attributed to genetic variation. Brain damage is not a heritable trait cause you got dropped on your head as a kid.

The whole wall of text doesn't even address the debate anyway. Who cares he's wrong, everyone knows that strength is influenced by a thousand things and is therefor not a "heritable trait." Except for kids like GS. That's the point, address it or move on.

Incestuous people are cool.

 

[1048576]

Ugh, normally people just leave the thread at this point.

It's really not worth arguing semantics. Strength is part genes, part not genes (well, not directly; work ethic genes and all that) and it can be quantified. Let's move on from there and not worry about if those characteristics constitute a "trait."

Goldshadow has proven his credentials over and over again in the various "need science help" threads that have cropped up in the subforum. I disagree with him on most things, but he knows his stuff.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

A much more obvious example of inheriting strength is Belgian Blue cattle. They have two faulty copies of the gene that regulates muscle growth. As a result, their bulls can easily be over a ton.

It is done in animal breeding a lot, where the biggest bulls with the best defined muscles are selected to breed as the offspring as more likely to have lots of muscle. Now, diet and exercise is obviously important, but genetics are a huge part of it.

Wonder if the meat has something in it that makes humans superhuman.

That'd be cool.

 

[Teran]

Inbreeding gets you from this:

to this:

Would definitely love to see a pedigree human.

Oh wait I know what one looks like

Got to admit I really love the eyebrows, maybe if they mate with their mother the next batch's ones will be more exaggerated.

Hmm was hoping for some wrinkles though.

 

[SuperBowser]

Hey!

Bulldogs look nice >: (

 

[Teran]

They're actually my favourite domestic dog, but they're pretty pathetic specimens biologically speaking.

They're perpetually out of breath, can barely walk, and need a c-section to be delivered because their heads are too big to fit out of mama bulldog's vag.

 

[GoldShadow]

To everyone who thinks I just got owned: he basically said the same thing I said plus more.. and he still never reneged on calling strength a trait... and wait its not!

...seriously?

I can't tell if this guy's just trying to get under my skin or if he's serious.

My entire post was to show you that strength is a trait, that a trait doesn't have to be "simple" or "determined", and that the heritability/genetic influence of a trait like strength can be measured.

 

[Luigitoilet]

They're actually my favourite domestic dog, but they're pretty pathetic specimens biologically speaking.

They're perpetually out of breath, can barely walk, and need a c-section to be delivered because their heads are too big to fit out of mama bulldog's vag.

I think pugs are the best example of that, myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckiKdk4TwR4&feature=channel

 

[GoldShadow]

The whole wall of text doesn't even address the debate anyway. Who cares he's wrong, everyone knows that strength is influenced by a thousand things and is therefor not a "heritable trait." Except for kids like GS. That's the point, address it or move on.

Since you don't like lots of text, here it is in simpler format:

Muscular strength is a trait associated with QTLs (quantitative trait loci). A "heritable trait" is a trait whose heritability can be measured; in fact, if you type in "heritable trait" on Wikipedia it takes you to the page for "heritability". Every one of the studies I linked to showed the genetic influence and measured heritability of muscle strength.

Furthermore, in mice, there's a myostatin-related gene called GDF-8. Here's what happens in mice in which the GDF-8 gene is removed:

"To determine the biological function of GDF-8, we disrupted the GDF-8 gene by gene targeting in mice. GDF-8 null animals are significantly larger than wild-type animals and show a large and widespread increase in skeletal muscle mass. Individual muscles of mutant animals weigh 2-3 times more than those of wild-type animals, and the increase in mass appears to result from a combination of muscle cell hyperplasia and hypertrophy."
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v387/n6628/pdf/387083a0.pdf

I'm sure GDF-8 or its homologs/associated QTLs in humans work similarly. Yeah, muscle growth and development is mostly dependent on environmental factors; that doesn't mean it's not under some degree of genetic control. You keep confusing "complex" or "lots of factors" with "not heritable" and "not a trait" (and what does being dropped on the head have to do with any of this?).

Surely, as somebody who's got some experience in biology, you wouldn't doubt that some humans have less or more GDF-8 than others, and that this affects - however little - the development of muscle in people? And that what follows from this is that muscle development/strength is under some level of genetic control and that it is, therefore, heritable and polygenic?



Anyway since this is pretty off topic, I'm not going to make any more posts in this topic about this. If GOD! or anyone else want to discuss it, it can be done in a new thread.

 

[Teran]

I think pugs are the best example of that, myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckiKdk4TwR4&feature=channel

True but I'm English so the Bulldog is the first image that pops into my head when I think pedigree.

Sorry to have hurt your feelings massuh.

Also GS, there's a reason why the number of scientists is so low in the world, because most people are too dense to get science.

 

[SuperBowser]

Yeah, I guess bulldogs are pretty pathetic biologically. But what they lack in survival skills they make up for by being awesome!

Enter skateboarding bulldog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQzUsTFqtW0


Truly the epitome of inbreeding.

 

[Teran]

Well hey thalidomide babies are cool too, until they end up coming out of your wife.

 

[1048576]

Sample size of one should not be a convincing argument.

I'm sure I could find a ****ed up person/animal who wasn't the result of inbreeding. We still don't know the rate at which it occurs.

 

[Mic_128]

Would definitely love to see a pedigree human.

Oh wait I know what one looks like

Oh lord, it's Tony Abbot!

 

[Justerbuster07]

if that guy ever got in a fight with his dad, he could be like "oh yeah? well i had sex with your MOM!"

o_o

 

[Teran]

Sample size of one should not be a convincing argument.

I'm sure I could find a ****ed up person/animal who wasn't the result of inbreeding. We still don't know the rate at which it occurs.

You are utterly obtuse for suggesting that.

It's an obvious fact of statistics that a shallow genepool exaggerates defects. In fact, let's not even talk human since the basic idea applies to all animals.

Pedigree dogs don't live as long as mongrels. Why? Hybrid vigour. Suggesting? Better genepool that produces the puppies. In fact, the definition of an endangered species can also be one with a very shallow genepool.

Of course I could be wrong about all this but okay go ahead and test it for me. Prove me wrong. Sleep with your mother until you get a girl. Then sleep with your daughter/sister? If she has a son make her sleep with him, if she has a daughter well go for the honours.

Does that idea repulse you? Well it's part of your inbuilt instinctive behaviour telling you not to inbreed.

Although you should do it anyway in the name of science.

 

[SuperBowser]

To be fair, it could also be a (useful) social construct.

Well hey thalidomide babies are cool too, until they end up coming out of your wife.

They were never cool

 

[1048576]

You are utterly obtuse for suggesting that.

It's an obvious fact of statistics that a shallow genepool exaggerates defects. In fact, let's not even talk human since the basic idea applies to all animals.

Pedigree dogs don't live as long as mongrels. Why? Hybrid vigour. Suggesting? Better genepool that produces the puppies. In fact, the definition of an endangered species can also be one with a very shallow genepool.

Of course I could be wrong about all this but okay go ahead and test it for me. Prove me wrong. Sleep with your mother until you get a girl. Then sleep with your daughter/sister? If she has a son make her sleep with him, if she has a daughter well go for the honours.

Does that idea repulse you? Well it's part of your inbuilt instinctive behaviour telling you not to inbreed.

Although you should do it anyway in the name of science.

A shallow genepool also exaggerates useful attributes (profects?) You still haven't shown how much the rate of ****** increases with you inbreed. It matters whether it's like 3% or 30%. Cost vs benefit and all that.

I'm sure a diven dog's lifespan is a function of more than one variable. I'd also think selecting for cuteness detracts from certain attributes that would make them live longer. I'll give you that all other things equal inbreeding is worse than not inbreeding (I've never denied this.) The problem comes that people have no problem with ******* or colorblind or cancer-prone people breeding, which leaves the kid much, much worse off.

Given that you're a *** (rhymes with bag) like me, I'd think you'd be less responsive to the "It's icky" argument.

Edit: I'm not saying it doesn't happen at an increased rate, but you seem to be under the impression that most incestuous couples produce dysfunctional offspring, and I disagree.

 

[Rici]

To everyone who thinks I just got owned: he basically said the same thing I said plus more.. and he still never reneged on calling strength a trait... and wait its not!

But yeah just look at the wall of words that don't address anything I brought against him and be amazed. I'll go read some more of my chemistry and kinesiology books while this guy pulls you unrelated stuff from google.

You know this is why people stopped believing in you.

 

[Greenstreet]

I swear on my unborn fish boys life, she will pay.

Spoiler

"She" being the grandmother so that this largely irrelevant scrubs quote will make a little more sense.

 

[El Nino]

Inbreeding gets you from this:

to this:

I don't deny it, but the funny thing about that observation is that one of those two examples is listed as an endangered or protected species, and the other is doing very well for itself.

The problem comes that people have no problem with ******* or colorblind or cancer-prone people breeding, which leaves the kid much, much worse off.

Yes, and that has to do with what I mentioned above. A population can experience different selection pressures over time, and that changes which traits are "strong" and which are "weak". Mental *********** and cancer haven't stopped human beings from reaching over 6 billion in number. Small scale inbreeding isn't likely to throw the species to the brink of extinction either. Neither homosexuality, nor other forms of sexuality that lead to decreased vitality or which don't lead to procreation at all--not even the expansion of the roles of women beyond that of the primary caregivers of children--is going to stop the human birth machine. We don't always live well, but there are so god**** many of us. The alterations we've made to our environment have altered the selection pressures acting on us. Certain traits that would have been detrimental in the past are no longer as detrimental as they once were.

 

[1048576]

Okay, and your point is?

I pretty much agree with everything you say, but we seem to be arriving at different conclusions.

 

[Snowmanthatknows]

No way is that possible.

She's way too old to even produce children.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

No way is that possible.

She's way too old to even produce children.

I guess metapause hasn't hit her yet.

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of.

 

[GOD!]

You know this is why people stopped believing in you.

You realize that this is why the sky is pink.

Yeah we already resolved are thing via VM and you are just a ******** n00b oh please quit thx.
Too bad you're not smart, then you could have actually followed the argument and developed your own opinion. Instead of speaking for people when you're actually only referring to yourself.


And metapause.. that's when a Mk is camping and the other guy pauses the game to call a TO over to ***** about it right? And they used a surrogate mother.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I remember when there was another God member years back. he was way funnier and more interesting than this one :/

 

[GOD!]

I remember when you weren't a tool that contributed nothing intelligent to a thread. Ok wait jk.

 

[~N9NE~]

lol at this thread. Chill people, it's not your grandmother he's nailing.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

lol at this thread. Chill people, it's not your grandmother he's nailing.

Ya it's his, you don't see anything wrong with that?

 

[~N9NE~]

Ya it's his, you don't see anything wrong with that?

Of course I think it's wrong. Why would I have posted it lol.

Can I stop him? Should I really get worked up about it?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Of course I think it's wrong. Why would I have posted it lol.

Can I stop him? Should I really get worked up about it?

We can't stop them, but it's just one more example of the messed up world we live in.

 

[1048576]

****ing **** **** **** ***** **** ****

******* piss ******s ****ing **** with a bottle of toothpaste

There is nothing "messed up" about their relationship.

 

[~N9NE~]

****ing **** **** **** ***** **** ****

******* piss ******s ****ing **** with a bottle of toothpaste

There is nothing "messed up" about their relationship.

Of course I think it's wrong. Why would I have posted it lol.

Chill people

People can have opinions.

I'm sure it's a fulfilling relationship for the both of them. It's just not a relationship that seems apt to me. Reason to get mad? No, reason to understand that people will disagree. I'm not going to hang the guy, I'm just saying I disagree.