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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

Sinister Slush

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Fiddle players: they're either silent most of the game and get great ults while getting fed before even hitting six.
Or
Talk more than play the game and think they're invincible cause they have drain leveled at 5 instead of getting a couple of levels in terrify and zhonya's but still get blown the fugg up cause they forget the enemy is fed.

Also shaya no need for void staff when nobody on enemy team is building MR. Just jayce and TF were like... 7/1 while lee was building damage last I checked so yeah.
 
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Asdioh

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Fiddle players: they're either silent most of the game and get great ults while getting fed before even hitting six.
Or
Talk more than play the game and think they're invincible cause they have drain leveled at 5 instead of getting a couple of levels in terrify and zhonya's but still get blown the fugg up cause they forget the enemy is fed.

Also shaya no need for void staff when nobody on enemy team is building MR. Just jayce and TF were like... 7/1 while lee was building damage last I checked so yeah.
Yeah, Fid went and fed every lane then blamed Janna the whole time. Idk.
Sure is easy to give criticism huh >=( idk what else to start, I could go Doran's but idk! I'm used to needing lots of healing against bull**** like Leblanc so I usually start with a ward and a bunch of pots or flask because I'm terrified of junglers.

As for ignite, I know that obviously. I'm not sure what instances you're talking about getting a potential kill with ignite... I can think of the Caitlyn in bot lane, which I would like to do but it's kinda hard to reach sometimes. Also lately I've been accidentally canceling ult by trying to ignite while ulting, usually looks like ignite's in range but it's JUST out of range so it forces me to cancel ult, really annoying.

I didn't do well last game, but man they really waited until my promos to give me the unpleasant teams. I've won almost all of my past 15 or so games before promos.

Also I'm not sold on Void Staff rush, the damage from Deathcap feels more helpful against squishy targets early on, and just makes all your other AP items that much stronger.

now i'm against some guy who loves zed :x
 
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Sinister Slush

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TF mid lane when he had red buff and you all in'd him but he lived with sliver of health cause no ignite.
D ring is always best start, unless you're like... certain you'll be fighting a lot and get poked in the process so flask start but even then D ring is usually better since one potion (with mastery) is prolly two flask consumes in one.
 

Shaya

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Yeah, Fid went and fed every lane then blamed Janna the whole time. Idk.
Sure is easy to give criticism huh >=( idk what else to start, I could go Doran's but idk! I'm used to needing lots of healing against bull**** like Leblanc so I usually start with a ward and a bunch of pots or flask because I'm terrified of junglers.
I'm a pretty critical person. I'm never out to belittle or insult though.

I know Lee was semi-ever-present. But you tried to apply no pressure to TF at all, and that character has no reason to ever feel safe to walk up to creeps and auto attack them. I found it weird that you would position yourself poorly to E ranged creeps and then get hit by TF's Q harass.

Void Staff is a 1000 odd gold cheaper than death cap, gives you the same amount of damage if not more (Malz base damages are insane) and left you with gold to go towards a defensive item or something else. Play styles I know. But void staff is giving you a forever-relevant-damage (important in a losing game) spike for an extremely low cost in comparison to other items. No MR doesn't matter, i'd rather deal close to 320 + whatever AP i'm scrounging from masteries/roa/runes at .8 rather than 1:1 per spell but probably dealing 20% less damage overall.

Other than that... just positioning. It wasn't as potent as it could've been; not applying pressure when you could've / being out of place and getting caught in obvious situations [like your janna saying "enemy team is in our top jungle" then you pushing top past inner stump and getting gang banged and then yelling at them for not killing fiddle?].

I think you're playing a lot better in this match than the last one.
 
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Asdioh

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His E is too good though, and then Q for the increased CC and guaranteed damage. His waveclear is going to suck pre-6 no matter what.
 

john!

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maxing snare gives you like twice as many opportunities to snare/combo the opponent at level 9 due to the CD reduction

w/e you guys will see birdman's power someday unless they overnerf hourglass
 
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Zano

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getting a new pc soon so I'll be able to play this game again and enjoy my place in ranked at silver again.

also off topic but P3, wtf, why does your character do so much damage in bravely default.
 

Shaya

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maxing snare gives you like twice as many opportunities to snare/combo the opponent at level 9 due to the CD reduction

w/e you guys will see birdman's power someday unless they overnerf hourglass
Birdman's just super awkward. Better than people give him credit for (as in, better than not seeing him in my past like 200 ranked games). But he's the type of guy who doesn't do well against other mages at an even footing unless their team is heavily melee centric.

I feel like Heimer right now would definitely outshine Swain in 90% of situations. ****s melees up at close range (although doesn't feasibly sustain forever), has insane poke and arguably gets better rewards with skill placement (aoe stun) than Swain does with his snare. Less item dependent, isn't a shell pre-6, etc.

If you're really good with Swain though, you should go for it. 2 second cc can win games. People don't know the MU well and you can abuse it. I'm sure you could pick him into Nidalee, Orianna or Gragas (maybe not?) without stressing much, and could probably out play LB, so why not?

I've never really been able to manage him well due to awkward level pathing, mana costs and his range, but seeing as he hasn't had any attention in forever, I wouldn't be surprised if he can be a god with a mana item + liandrys/rylais core (catalyst + seekers -> roa > haunting guise / zhonyas > alternative > liandrys).
 
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Asdioh

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Swain is basically the only other mid I'm comfortable with picking atm. RoA->Zhonyas just seems too core to pass up, once you get those you're godlike as long as you're not too far behind. Other mana items aren't really necessary if you're not spamming your spells. He's incredibly strong 1v1 if you can land a snare, followed up with EQ and ignite if you're going for the kill, he can duel pretty much any mid laner.

Ziggs though, I don't know how to deal with that. Rather, I don't know how to deal with a good Ziggs. Some of them I can just kill repeatedly, some play safe and abuse their absolutely insane waveclear, starting at level 1, and if I don't get jungle help then I'm just getting pushed all game. Who are even good picks against Ziggs? Probably champs I'm bad at :x
 

Sinister Slush

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Whether you harass em to death or not, they'll get their items sooner or later and burst you down before you can sustain yourself back up.
Ones you mentioned outside of Orianna. Orianna is iffy on both getting harassed cause it's kinda other way around with swain getting harassed while level 6 her burst isn't enough to go through Swain's sustain compared to the likes of leblanc and gragas.

As for Ziggs... very likely any AP mid or something that can jump on him. Kass Leblanc Gragas Riven Zed Ahri and maybe Fizz.
Dunno about Syndra.
 

john!

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I feel like Heimer right now would definitely outshine Swain in 90% of situations. ****s melees up at close range (although doesn't feasibly sustain forever), has insane poke and arguably gets better rewards with skill placement (aoe stun) than Swain does with his snare. Less item dependent, isn't a shell pre-6, etc.

If you're really good with Swain though, you should go for it. 2 second cc can win games. People don't know the MU well and you can abuse it. I'm sure you could pick him into Nidalee, Orianna or Gragas (maybe not?) without stressing much, and could probably out play LB, so why not?
i love me some heimer and i think they have a lot of similarities (i use both champions' snow skins lol), but swain does more single-target burst, is more durable, and has sustained damage that doesn't die to random AOE/enemies walking away. i really think the only reason people don't play him is because of his farming issues. but i basically play proxy heimer so what do i know lol

i actually won a 55-minute game yesterday by landing a snare on the enemy LB and killing her near baron. it's easier to land than the grenade and perhaps even cho's Q.

I've never really been able to manage him well due to awkward level pathing, mana costs and his range, but seeing as he hasn't had any attention in forever, I wouldn't be surprised if he can be a god with a mana item + liandrys/rylais core (catalyst + seekers -> roa > haunting guise / zhonyas > alternative > liandrys).
i'm partial to the ROA/zhonya's/abyssal build build myself, with deathcap or void staff thrown in because swain's tankiness scales off of his offensive power
 
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Dre89

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I feel like mages have almost become obsolete now with assassins everywhere. They effectively have have same role, which is to delete a carry, yet assassins have more mobility. Even players like Froggen who were known for their mage-play have moved over to assassins now. I don't really see what mages offer over them.

Actually I should specify, I'm talking about burst mages. I can see what siege mages like Ziggs and Nidalee offer over traditional assassins.
 

Shaya

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Assassins can kill one carry effectively, only get things out of burst + penetration (so flat stats over utility) in build paths. There's always been a wary collusion in this game between assassins and "traditional mages"; mages need to be able to "one shot" carries but are also designed to nuke entire teams to bits. But no, assassins and mages do not effectively have the same role, although the best ones are expected to be able to achieve the same things.

There has been no time in league's history where single target damage vs aoe damage has been noticeably fair/balanced (and by virtue, there never will be; riot have just purposely kept AoE on the down low in favour of...) If I was to coin this meta as anything, I'd call it the "lock down meta" (shaped by Thresh, Vi, etc), where right now teams are balanced around exclusive in-game usages/roles (in other words roles aren't overlapped, you have engage, follow up engage, tower killer and boom boomers) and the sheer power of taking out one of the enemy [instantly] severely outweighs the drawn out fighting or capabilities of off-meta characters because teams usually cannot achieve any map objectives without "everything" available. Dre, you have not been around to see this game where hard aoe cc boom boom engages are the best thing since sliced bread, and if you have, you'd probably realise that those characters who can achieve that are still strong and fully capable of aoe boom boom, but they just do not have the power bell curves throughout the length of the game like ******** overloaded kit characters like Vi and Thresh do (relevant at every stage of the game and even when completely shut down are still able to achieve base requirements that win games)

Basically, there's enough counter play available to older characters and their play patterns at this point, but there's close to little/none in relation to the characters in the spot light. Locking down a target and having characters being able to freely blow their loads with safety and without much concern for positioning is a design problem (especially with the characters who are potent at this have negative counterplay and usually amazing laning phases/early pressure, middle phases and are still heavily useful or better in the late game). However, the moment we actually get more counterplay going for these new problems, you'll see the transition to different niches of casters. Or maybe we won't... riot are getting pretty bad at managing this game at this point.

I know this game will actually make sense to me again when a character like Ashe can actually compete. But I severely doubt she ever will be without completely nonsensical changes.
 
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Dre89

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Speaking about it I find it funny how Annie still fits the meta despite being a 2009 champ.
It's just her numbers though. Annie probably wouldn't fit the meta if her base damages were nerfed. The stun is god but it's the fact that she can nuke the carry in her stun duration that makes her so popular.
 

Shaya

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Speaking about it I find it funny how Annie still fits the meta despite being a 2009 champ.
Annie is/was a notorious lane bully in her glory days. In terms of control and ability, any character who couldn't harass AND farm at above 650 range would usually get bent over and snowballed on because your character wasn't designed to deal with Annie. Annie comes from the days where ranged carries were still going mid and the only ranged ads who she didn't **** on was Ezreal sitting at 1000 range away and caitlyn. The meta shifted and she wasn't suited to laning against characters she couldn't bully to death. Continuous buffs/slight reworks didn't hurt either. Then suddenly people realised who Annie dominates, and where those characters always end up going.
 

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When did her numbers get nerfed? In the Kassadin rework patch?

Also, who are the best melee hypercarries at the moment? What I'm looking for specifically is someone who can scales really well into lategame, and just splitpush and 1v1 anyone who tries to stop them. At the moment I'm using Jax because he is straight up OP, but I'm looking for some other melee ADCs to fall back on if he gets picked/banned. I was thinking maybe Aatrox ot Yasuo. I have Fiora, might use her as my secondary seeing as she's really good at sticking to carries and taking towers, I just don't know what her lategame dueling power is like.
 
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Asdioh

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http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4389282
Then I learned that Malzahar's pool stops doing damage if you die while it's on the ground. I had never noticed this.
I played moar games today, I've failed promos twice but now I'm 2-0 so I've got this tomorrow right guys?!

Annie was nerfed in the most recent patch, I believe. Her AP ratios went up and her base damages went down. Either this patch or the one a few weeks before it.
My vote goes for Tryndamere for melee carries, but I haven't seen him since I started playing again, maybe something changed in the past 4 months.

JTB, change the thread title to something else my comp is fine :(
 
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john!

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speaking of computers, i got a new 27 inch monitor-pc-thing and playing league fullscreen really hindered my peripheral vision

so if you're having dreams of playing league on your TV or huge monitor or something then don't, it will make your map and cooldown awareness suck lol
 
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Dre89

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http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4389282
Then I learned that Malzahar's pool stops doing damage if you die while it's on the ground. I had never noticed this.
I played moar games today, I've failed promos twice but now I'm 2-0 so I've got this tomorrow right guys?!

Annie was nerfed in the most recent patch, I believe. Her AP ratios went up and her base damages went down. Either this patch or the one a few weeks before it.
My vote goes for Tryndamere for melee carries, but I haven't seen him since I started playing again, maybe something changed in the past 4 months.

JTB, change the thread title to something else my comp is fine :(
In my elo, Trynd gets fed every single game, no matter how bad the player is. Then he'll splitpush, get ganked by 3 people but still manage to kill one of them thanks to his ult. I think the only times I've played against Trynd and won are when I've played Jax, so it was just a case of me out-OPing him. Fiora is a similar story to Trynd at my elo, except that she's a lot less common. She's my number 2 pick at the moment if I can't get Jax.

I'm new to playing melee carries so I probably don't build them well. I usually end up with tank boots, randuins and visage as my defensive core, and get a botrk and whisper plus a filler item depending on the carry (eg. TF for Jax, Cleaver for Fiora). I've come to my senses and realised that Hydra is sub optimal in most cases.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Dre, build Fiora Hydra, LW, BC, and pretty much anything after that.

Don't build tank items unless the enemy team is one damage type (All AD buy Randuins, all AP buy SV)

Remember to press R (don't be me)

Grats you are master Fiora user
 

Dre89

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I have to agree with other people here now that Hydra is sub-optimal. You don't really need the waveclear if you have AoE or an AS steroid. The best thing about hyrda is the flat AD, but you can get a BT instead. Why wouldn't you build BORTK on Fiora when her ult procs on-hit effects? Every AD looks for an exxcuse to build it and Fiora has one. How many tank items do you build then?
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Hydra adds a lot of extra damage to her ult (more than BotRK) and Fiora is a split pusher. :3

BotRK is a solid choice too.

I build zero tank items on pretty much any melee ADC. If you're playing Aatrox or Yasuo as an ADC role though, I'd build a randuins/SV since they're not durable enough compared to Fiora, Yi or Trynd.
 
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Sinister Slush

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Dunno why you're going tanky on Yasuo when he's better suited as glass canon.
He is quite literally built as an AD carry but instead of damage items built first he rushes Shiv (tho there is some bad ads that used to rush PD/shiv) and IE, then lifesteal item can be BT or bork and LW/GA.

Not saying tanky is bad, just prolly better to keep going damage after your two core items are done. Any other times I've seen a yasuo go tanky persay is just getting GA as their third item not counting boots being tabi/merc treads.
 

Sinister Slush

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Also, I don't play yasuo but lemme just say I now know why he can go Dblade start and get away with it.
Q procs on-hit effects. So he can spam Q all day and hit 1-3 minions and get the 5 health on-hit + the health from 2/3 LS quints you're running.

That's dumb. Yasuo is dumb sometimes. Glad nobody plays him much anymore cause they wanna play fotm crap like ziggs gragas or lb all day.
 

Z'zgashi

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Just popping in to give you all your daily dose of someone saying Heimerdinger is OP as ****.

Been spamming him hardcore and am 5-0 in my last 5 games with a combined KDA of 65/18/36.
 

Sinister Slush

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Fugg.
he OP. That turret zhonya's combo. Can't kill turret fast enough before it kills me mang.
Nerf plz.

tfw ranked game I played two weeks ago that was loss forgiven we lost cause heimer splitpushed all day even if he died while team didn't know what to do after killing him.
This was Plat 2 btw, though it was also morning and they mostly had gold/silver borders somehow.
 
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Shaya

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Also, who are the best melee hypercarries at the moment? .
The only real answer here that was even remotely acceptable was Kha Zix; and Yasuo if you also have a Vi/Wukong.

Everyone else is literally awful. Tryndadonk is just infuriating in solo queue because you have to fear the all in level 2 more than renektons (because at least renektons all in at level 2 doesn't mean much 20 minutes later).

But I'll tell you which melee hyper carry I fear more than Kha Zix, Yasuo and Tryndamere COMBINED

AKALI

I literally **** my boots every time I see one on the enemy team. Are they going to go mid and make one good play in a jungle fight or bottom and turn into a god? Or is she going to absolutely **** on 90% of the currently in-meta tops so badly that my top is going to rage quit (followed by my mid after akali comes in between waves after pushing top out of lane the instant they come back every time over and over and over again)? There are no other alternatives.

Like no other character legitimately forces all 5 people on your team to buy upgraded red trinket.

And i'll tell you why Akali completely outshines all those melee carries you hate Dre. It's simple

ZHONYAS ****ING HOURGLASS

(sue me for taking melee hyper carry as a hyper carry who's melee rather than a melee ad carry)
 
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Dre89

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Khazix isn't a carry though, he's an assassin.

I'm not sure if your analysis of all melee ADCs being terrible included Jax, because there's no way he's terrible. Jax and Aatrox are currently being played in the LCS. Jax is banned against like anyone who is known to play him.
 

Player-3

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akali is the most broken piece of **** champion ever


edit: besides lulu


edit 2: actually no **** both those champions please delete them
 
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Shaya

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Khazix isn't a carry though, he's an assassin.

I'm not sure if your analysis of all melee ADCs being terrible included Jax, because there's no way he's terrible. Jax and Aatrox are currently being played in the LCS. Jax is banned against like anyone who is known to play him.
It's easier to ban the single character who can dodge auto attacks (something many in-meta characters have 1/3rd of their rotation negated by + their precious auto attacks) and potentially outscale in lane our super-meta-heroes RENEKTON AND... RENEKTON (Shyvana called, she wishes dragons were better than crocodiles) than deal with them. Kha Zix is melee and a "hyper carry" (what's not hyper about resetsssssssss?)
 

Shaya

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I remember when Carry was a class of character's who had abilities which enhanced mechanics/other abilities in non-linear fashion ("free stats that scale with other stats/items") -> STEROIDS.

Stuff like Ezreal's Q reducing CDs by 1, having 50% attack speed buff. Vlad's enhanced healing effects on E, his ultimate increasing all damage, AP/HP bonus passive. etc etc etc
Which contrasted with characters such as Annie or Anivia who were strictly nukers. Steroids kinda got hazy at some point though, especially with the ever increasing list of % of health things characters got throughout mid season 1 onwards (I guess de-scaling abilities [attack speed debuffs/% health damage] aren't really the same thing as steroids, although in my mind they're usually ****ing awesome).

So when I look at Akali, she has her passive and her ult resets as steroids. Kha has his blink reset and % damage increase from isolation. Seems pretty carry to me.

In fact, I'm pretty sure back in the day Malphite was tagged as a carry due to his W increasing his AD and Armor by a percentage. So when you typed carry into the champion tab you'd have a list of like
Ashe, Corki, Ezreal, Master Yi, Kayle, Jax, Tryndamere, Malphite, Tristana, Teemo(lol), Ryze, Vladimir etc
I'm trying to remember if Nasus was there.
 
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Dre89

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Shaya I think people ban Jax because no matter how far behind he is he can basically 1v1 anyone once he gets BOTRK and TF. His splitpushing is really hard to deal with because of it. He's also really strong in teamfights.

When I started playing the carry tag was just for champs that took towers quickly. Namely ADs that relied on autos rather than abilities.

I don't see why you're hesitant to accept that melee ADs are good. I've started to adopt Aero's approach to teamfights, which is basically just go ham and not care about dying. As Jax I just dive the carry and blow everything on them. If I kill them and remain alive I usually end up getting a double or a triple. If I kill them and die in the process my team normally wins because I removed their carry. Worst case scenario I die without killing them, and that is either because their entire team has blown their CC on me, or the ADC has kited me to point where they are completely zoned out from the teamfight. In both cases my team often ends up cleaning up after my death, and I basically did the job of a dive-tank anyway in my worst case scenario.

I pretty much only play tanks in the support role now (but even then I'm thinking of switching over to Kayle) because I feel like that any melee carry with CC (Jax Aatrox etc.) or some serious glue (Fiora) can effectively do the role of a dive tank, whilst also being a good tower pusher and contributing a lot more damage.
 
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