Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[@TKbreezy]

for tk..
hybrid is interesting choice for kennen. go %pen for armor and magic in masteries and sacrifice points else where in the offense to allow this or other trees(would just sacrifice from offense). then you can build to how you think the lane weill go. if you try this, i would still put flat ad quints even if you are going ap path.

I think you were talking to me with this

but I was talking about Kayle. this info still seems to kinda favor her tho. but I've been using MS quints on like every rune page I have. my Kayle masteries is like 17/0/13 tho.

 

[DMG]

utility tree BLOWS only point of specing it is for meditation (unless ur support.)

i HATE 21/0/9 ****ty build imo. always go 21/2/7 or 23/0/7. no reason wasting your points on 1% movespeed or whatever when you could be getting 2 armor or a tiny bit more damage.

utility is great for support btw, 4 ward start is AMAZING for solo que and 5s. really a lot you can accomplish with that opener.

Well a lot of people go 9 utility to get the buff duration increase. If you're going 9 into utility and not getting that for some reason, then yeah there's no point just cut back to 7 and put 2 points elsewhere. Not everyone gets that, but you can definitely justify getting more time on buffs over 2 points elsewhere for enough characters that consider it. And if you feel that 1 point in MVS is a waste, you could put that point in recall or ward or good hands/mana and still get buff duration.

utility tree bears great fruit if you nourish it

seriously though, it's really good

No it doesn't bear great fruit. Utility is probably most characters least favorite tree and you see most who even think about using it only put 9 points in because of buff duration. If you swapped that over to another tree, I guarantee you probably half of the usage you see of that tree would instantly be gone lol. Maybe more than half.

Offensively, both Magic and AD champs have plenty to benefit from going down Offense Tree. That Tree isn't heavily shifted one way or the other. Sure it's a bit more useful for AD champs and there are more points dedicated to those champs than Magical, but you're not missing out a ton either if you are. Flat AP, Scaling AP, AP multiplier, Magic Pen etc. End of the Tree you get more damage. Sounds great.

Utility wise... almost favors no one lol. Supports out of any role obviously have the most to benefit from the tree. It's geared mostly towards them, slightly to casters as well. This tree is almost pointless for anyone AD besides the Mana Regen and Buff Duration. The benefits to casters in this tree aren't convincingly better than the Offensive counterparts. Casters want 21 points in Offense, not Utility. Even supports you could make a case for 21 defense or not fully utility or even a split elsewhere.

The first 9 points of Utility aren't too bad. Most characters can find some use there. Elsewhere in the tree though, the benefits are either too specific or just flat out not comparable to what you can find elsewhere.

really who knew u should elaborate

Please do John. If we are talking about the Tree in it's entirety, it's clearly the worst overall. First 9 points are not that bad, but it just isn't universally or even strongly appealing afterwards to most classes and champs. Sure, 3 points for 6 CDR instead of 4 points for 3 CDR, but the trade off being I don't have to waste points on the other crappy stuff in utility to get to that point AND I can get Spell Pen/AP/other useful stuff before that point in Offensive Tree... moments like that which make it look pretty awkward.

 

[Lovage]

every mastery in utility is just a ****ty stepping stone to get to meditation or to get to starting gold

but ya @ dmg i forgot to mention buff duration is actually good on mids that need it. try to never take it on characters that won't regularly get buffs unless you got secret strats like blue buff urgot 1v2 bot.

 

[john!]

k i will elaborate (i'm talking about masteries deep in the tree, not the first few levels)

it all depends on your approach to laning and your general strategy (assuming we are talking about ap mid)

the offense tree is damage. and only damage. this is beneficial if you like going to lane and playing very aggressively in order to force the enemy to leave. in a straight-up clash, the person with 21 offense will win a slightly higher percentage of the time

but the problem is, since the magic masteries deep into the offense tree are heavily late-game based, they don't help out as much as you'd think during laning. masteries are generally what you use to get an early-game advantage over your opponents... late game is item-dependent.

the utility tree gives you windows of opportunity during the entire laning phase. what i mean is that you will hit level 6 before them, and your cooldowns will have a better chance of coming up sooner (particularly SS cooldowns, being able to flash or ignite when your opponent can't is a HUGE advantage if you can get your jungler to help kill them during this window).

additionally, if you level up faster than your opponent, your abilities will have more damage for periods of time and you will win trades anyway if you do them at the right time.

overall it's far more reliable to be able to use these windows of opportunity to secure kills than to keep trading and hoping that your offensive masteries (which are late-game focused anyway) can bring your damage high enough to out-damage the opponent when it matters (and usually the variation in damage among individual champions is WAY more important than variation between mastery choices)

 

[DallasPhat]

OMFG john you're so good you should really teach people how to play.

 

[john!]

OMFG john you're so good you should really teach people how to play.

i would but unfortunately people think that ability to teach league = skill in league = ability to carry randoms in solo queue

 

[Purple]

Actually, i kind of agree with lovage, I think graves is the bess though.

I think mf could be higher..? becuase of her early game dominance, but i dunno, ashe's utility ult is pretty good.

 

[Asdioh]

So I just remembered, I was watching "2.2k elo player smurfing in elo hell" or some crap last night, and he went jungle Alistar/jungle nautilus. His ganks were beast, the alistar game was over by 10 minutes, but what I meant to ask was: can Alistar Headbutt, and then Pulverize them into the air before they get out of range? I would swear I saw this happen, but I wanted to think my eyes were playing tricks on me, because what the hell :x
And can this be done consistently?

 

[Mogwai]

every mastery in utility is just a ****ty stepping stone to get to meditation or to get to starting gold

but ya @ dmg i forgot to mention buff duration is actually good on mids that need it. try to never take it on characters that won't regularly get buffs unless you got secret strats like blue buff urgot 1v2 bot.

CDR and SS CDR are insane value/point and 20% buff increase is very strong on ranged AD for the red buff you get late game. starting gold is terrible value/point. it's a throwaway mastery that only has any value because it leads to 4 ward openings.

So I just remembered, I was watching "2.2k elo player smurfing in elo hell" or some crap last night, and he went jungle Alistar/jungle nautilus. His ganks were beast, the alistar game was over by 10 minutes, but what I meant to ask was: can Alistar Headbutt, and then Pulverize them into the air before they get out of range? I would swear I saw this happen, but I wanted to think my eyes were playing tricks on me, because what the hell :x
And can this be done consistently?

yes, every competent alistar can combo headbutt -> pulverize.

 

[john!]

So I just remembered, I was watching "2.2k elo player smurfing in elo hell" or some crap last night, and he went jungle Alistar/jungle nautilus. His ganks were beast, the alistar game was over by 10 minutes, but what I meant to ask was: can Alistar Headbutt, and then Pulverize them into the air before they get out of range? I would swear I saw this happen, but I wanted to think my eyes were playing tricks on me, because what the hell :x
And can this be done consistently?

press w and mash q as soon as you rush forward for the headbutt. it combos

also the player you were watching (reep) is a douchebag

 

[Lovage]

it all depends on your approach to laning and your general strategy (assuming we are talking about ap mid)

the offense tree is damage. and only damage. this is beneficial if you like going to lane and playing very aggressively in order to force the enemy to leave. in a straight-up clash, the person with 21 offense will win a slightly higher percentage of the time

wasn't only talking about AP mids, and stopped right here not making much sense already



offense isn't good because it's the best at going super aggro and then zoning your opponent in lane, any build can do that if (if it's the right one for your hero,) offense is the best because it outperforms the other trees really hard, for every carry and damage dealer, for the entire game, always.

offense last hits easier, has stronger push power, seiges towers harder, wins small trades easier, secures a kill when your jungler gonks for you ETC.

offense is the best, defense has great mid-tier talents that are really attractive for tanky supports and certain types of jungler/brusiers. utility is really whack imo except the niche builds (SV kennen, utility ryze [isn't offense better on new ryze anyway?]) and supports.



edit: and the fact that you think slowly and delicately out-pressuring and out-performing someone in the laning phase (one of the funnest parts in the game) is inferior to just going all-in every game with a fast lv. 6 is very confusing to me lol

 

[Asdioh]

yes, every competent alistar can combo headbutt -> pulverize.

Alright, I don't recall seeing it before, I always considered it a weakness that Alistar had to position himself to pulverize before headbutting to be efficient, but now I realize he's better than I thought.

press w and mash q as soon as you rush forward for the headbutt. it combos

also the player you were watching (reep) is a douchebag

Yeah, I noticed. I also don't understand how it's "ELO hell" if he's duo queueing with someone who's presumably around his ELO.

I also don't know why there are so many high level players who intentionally spam queue dodges or whatever in order to get absolute minimum ELO, in order to "prove" something :/

Still, it was interesting watching him. Reminded me of the power of Sheen early game.

 

[Mogwai]

press w and mash q as soon as you rush forward for the headbutt. it combos

also the player you were watching (reep) is a douchebag

fun fact, reep is the first person who I ignored in ranked ever.

 

[PhantomX]

I see threads by him every other week about how he's going to quit this game or whatever.

 

[Asdioh]

Yup, sounds like the kind of personality that would smurf to pubstomp low ELO

 

[Frolossus]

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=697548
graphical updates :D

it reminds me vaguely of dota 2 in style

 

[HondaFoo]

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=697548
graphical updates :D

it reminds me vaguely of dota 2 in style

Would be nice to see some side-by-side comparisons of the same areas, all I notice is the trees being darker and of higher polygon count

 

[Asdioh]

I have a disease called Graphics Blindness, I honestly can't tell what's different in any of those screenshots aside from the shopkeeper looking completely different from the fat purple guy. Maybe if there were side-by-side screenshots I'd notice.

Also I was worried but then I saw "Better game performance at low and mid spec."

I run model/texture quality on High because my game gets occasional FPS drops regardless of how high/low the settings are, but as long as the graphics update isn't killing my laptop I'm happy.

 

[PhantomX]

Little dwarf shopkeeper

 

[Shaya]

No one likes doran's wares any more.

 

[Asdioh]

freaking hell. whole team fed, after 2-3 players randoming their champs due to (apparently) not being there during champ select. karma mid (me), varus, vlad, graves, malzahar LOL

spent most of the game talking to enemy team, was pretty fun lol.

vs karthus, ashe, tryn, shen, janna. Had highest CS until eventually karthus pulled ahead somehow

good thing I'm not one of those jerks

somehow my spelling is still good

edit: disregard this post >_9(

 

[Lovage]

sounds like you don't drink much and wanna tell the internet when u do

 

[DMG]

i would but unfortunately people think that ability to teach league = skill in league = ability to carry randoms in solo queue

I lost all my text typing a response about your theory as my browser crashed.

I am sad.

Short Version: the windows you have for exploiting the exp buff are very small. It's only a 5 minion difference per 100 minions. You will spend more time on even footing level wise, and the person with offensive masteries will do more damage to you. The points in Offense aren't all lategame: you get 10 AP at level 6 from the flat and scaling along with the AP multiplier for what you already have and the damage boost overall.

 

[john!]

I lost all my text typing a response about your theory as my browser crashed.

I am sad.

Short Version: the windows you have for exploiting the exp buff are very small. It's only a 5 minion difference per 100 minions. You will spend more time on even footing level wise, and the person with offensive masteries will do more damage to you. The points in Offense aren't all lategame: you get 10 AP at level 6 from the flat and scaling along with the AP multiplier for what you already have and the damage boost overall.

i appreciate the effort though lol

i do think the offense tree is beneficial in some situations, and on some specific champions, but i think people underrate the utility tree in general.

 

[PhantomX]

Get out of here, DMG, you don't even play this game.

 

[DMG]

Get out of here, DMG, you don't even play this game.

JUST CAUSE I GOT DECAY IN SOLO QUEUE DOESN'T MEAN A DAMN THING "DOCTOR"!!!

But yeah, Offensive Tree is just really good.

 

[Asdioh]

ok time to stop playing LoL for tonight because the last two games were stupid as hell :x

no jungler in either

yeah Lovage I'd agree

 

[Kira-]

upgraded my os, have to wait for various things to finish installing

while I wait, my list of champs that are completely broke (in no particular order):

TF
Riven
Lulu

champions i need more experience with to decide whether they are broke enough:

Fizz
morgana
Rumble
Anivia
Udyr


champs that are overrated:

lead singer
olaf
Sejuani
teemo
WW

champions that are severely underrated:

NASUS
Taric
twitch
tristana
tryndamere

 

[Teh Brettster]

I also thing that Tristana may be underrated. With the longest auto range in the game (minus Kog+active?) and a MEGA attack speed steroid, 2 escape options, burst dmg... I just feel like either everyone is missing something... or -I- am missing something.
Anyone care to tell me what I might be missing?

 

[Lovage]

trist is great but she has a few flaws

- tiny mana pool and costly spells means you can only go for a big engage 2 or so times and ur OUT
- no CC outside of rocket jump which isn't really used for it's slow, and usually has to be used when you're winning the fight or about to turn the fight. her ult is about 50% as good as lee sin's cept it's harder to position cuz she doesn't have lee's kit and she is a ranged carry.
- doesn't have kog'maw's damage

the thing is she's still good as **** at what she's always done: have ******** range late-game and the best AS steroid in the game, she's STILL one of the scariest late-game heros in the game (she just below kog/ashe in terms of scary *** late game.) she just has the classic problem of having a slightly harder time getting past midgame compared to graves/kog'maw/corki ETC.

but ya, def. super underrated/underplayed

 

[Asdioh]

champions i need more experience with to decide whether they are broke enough:

Fizz

I just went like 0-3 Fizz top against Panth to 7/5/4 and my team dominated

champions that are severely underrated:

NASUS
Taric
twitch
tristana
tryndamere

AND their team had a Twitch, CLEARLY Fizz is OP!

But in all seriousness Blind Pick is silly

 

[PhantomX]

She also has great burst in lane. Grab her an aggressive support.

Anivia is 100% OP. Build her pure tank almost and she can still put out huge DPS over the course of a teamfight while never dying.

 

[Kira-]

I also thing that Tristana may be underrated. With the longest auto range in the game (minus Kog+active?) and a MEGA attack speed steroid, 2 escape options, burst dmg... I just feel like either everyone is missing something... or -I- am missing something.
Anyone care to tell me what I might be missing?

What you're missing is MID TRISTANA

thats why she's underrated.. because to put an AD mid you have to make ap choices elsewhere, which is harder to coordinate in solo q

it's also why people haven't been crying about urgot being op... because he is an uncommon mid! If he was played mid more urgot would've been nerfed ages ago

Anivia is 100% OP. Build her pure tank almost and she can still put out huge DPS over the course of a teamfight while never dying.

Ah yes, you would think so. But I think she falls under the same ploy that Cassiopeia does. Clearly if Cassiopeia could land all of her spells with 100% success, she would be the most broken champion in the game. However, she CANNOT, and this is why she is not OP. This is also (according to my guesstimates) the reason why Anivia is not an OBVIOUS op champion

 

[PhantomX]

Anivia doesn't have to land spells. Just needs to press R and then E. That's the difference, lol.

Q and Wall are bonuses.

 

[Shaya]

Twitch is definitely underrated. He is a functional ranged carry but a dysfunctional laner. If they gave him -any- quality of life fixes he would probably need to be nerfed. His shaky ultimate mechanics - his auto attacks become skill shots that can be dodged at even close range, makes using his ultimate at level 6 pretty ****, which instantly knocks him out of the game against just about every ranged carry until he hits level 9-13. Otherwise though 925 ranged aoe auto attacks with a 10 second 70 or 90% (I swear its 90 but lolwiki says its 70%) AS steroid with 35 bonus ad and up to 60 true damage per second - BONKERS.

< Hyping twitch since Zac stole my penta.

 

[Kira-]

Anivia doesn't have to land spells. Just needs to press R and then E. That's the difference, lol.

Q and Wall are bonuses.

Seems like you're focusing on lane phase

Try going through a teamfight without using Q or W, then tell me she's op

 

[Asdioh]

>owning game as fizz
>whole team is doing very well
>we've destroyed their mid inhib and stuff
>all of a sudden, baron fight and our soraka is busy farming bot
>we lose

WTF >:[

 

[adumbrodeus]

upgraded my os, have to wait for various things to finish installing

while I wait, my list of champs that are completely broke (in no particular order):

TF
Riven
Lulu

champions i need more experience with to decide whether they are broke enough:

Fizz
morgana
Rumble
Anivia
Udyr

udyr needs first category imo.

seriously, tiger stance + turtle stance op.

champs that are overrated:

lead singer
olaf
Sejuani
teemo
WW

I do not believe it possible to overstate how powerful lee sin is.

As far as sej, seems odd to comment on how a generally considered trash tier champ is lower then trash in an "overrated" category. Same with the generally considered mediocore teemo.

champions that are severely underrated:

NASUS
Taric
twitch
tristana
tryndamere

Taric has been gaining traction. As far as nasus, meh. Love him, think he loses too many lanes though, and not really useful midgame. Dat lategame though. If I can cp like a yorick in lane, I always will.

 

[Asdioh]

As far as sej, seems odd to comment on how a generally considered trash tier champ is lower then trash in an "overrated" category. Same with the generally considered mediocore teemo.

My sentiments exactly!

Teemo's ult is way too good to be considered anything less than decent

 

[Wave⁂]

Anivia definitely isn't OP. Just steal her blue.