Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[#HBC | Scary]

Yea, honestly I really wanna know the first few active frames of Diddy's UpB.

 

[Zatchiel]

When it comes to DACUS, I don't use the custom setup, and I instead rely on Bdacus. Are there any benefits/detriments to using this rather than changing my setup? Like, I have a hard time charging with buffered DACUS.

Also, would changing my setup really help me to play faster?

 

[stealth3654]

@ Zatch
The only downside I can think of when only using bdacus is that you won't be able to pull off those random dacus's from standing still. You'll have to do something to buffer in the dacus. If you are playing fine with your current set up, I don't see why you would need to change it.


Does anyone know when Sheik gets invincibility during her vanish?

 

[sheikamaru]

@ stealth I'm pretty sure it's when she disappears and is invisible.

Does anyone know the exact angle or where to hit opponents to send them flying at that "of no return?"

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I don't know the exact frame data, but once she starts flashing, she's invincible. So it starts a little before the explosion, and ends when she re-appears.

If you don't understand what I mean by flashing, go into training and use vanish and watch carefully, there's a point where she starts flashing white, it looks somewhat similar the the flash you get while you have fully charged needles.

EDIT: Checked the frame data thread, and unless I'm going blind in my old age, it wasn't there. So yeah go with what I said.


Killik if you're referring to what angle for vanish, isn't it just, have the opponent between you and the blast zone? I'm confused.

 

[sheikamaru]

Whoops! With fair I mean. My bad >.<

 

[Dnyce]

it takes at most 8 frames to ledge drop retether

the chain tethers the ledge on frames 9-10 (depending on how far you are from the ledge). If you made frame-perfect inputs, it's at least 11 to grab the edge, add some more before you can actually grab it and are invincible again ^^;

Also, would changing my setup really help me to play faster?

Yes yes yes, 1000 times yes.
L-shield, R/Z-jump/attack, Y-grab, X/B-attack/special, A-Jump, C-smash, tap jump off is the best control set-up in terms of being able to perform every technical/frame perfect input in the easiest possible way.

@ Zatch
Does anyone know when Sheik gets invincibility during her vanish?

I can probably find it for you.

Checked the frame data thread, and unless I'm going blind in my old age, it wasn't there..

X: yeah... sorry about that. I tried to only put moves I was 100% sure on.

 

[stealth3654]

If you could get the frame data, that would be great. I was watching one of Anti's sheik vids, and his use of vanish makes me want to utilize the move more.

 

[Zatchiel]

Yes yes yes, 1000 times yes.
L-shield, R/Z-jump/attack, Y-grab, X/B-attack/special, A-Jump, C-smash, tap jump off is the best control set-up in terms of being able to perform every technical/frame perfect input in the easiest possible way.

Oh my goodness, that sounds really technical. I will consider it. Thanks.

 

[phi1ny3]

Stinks that one can't reliably look at special/article frame data usually from just looking at OSA/PSA

 

[Dnyce]

Stinks that one can't reliably look at special/article frame data usually from just looking at OSA/PSA

Stinks that one can't reliably look at data from using a mac.

My windows comp is dead

 

[phi1ny3]

It's all good, just partition your Mac and install windows

I personally hate macs, but since we got one for work, I decided I might as well.

 

[-Ominous-]

I'm having issues doing Sheik's DACUS. I have the R button set to attack, and use that while I DACUS.

Any tips? Or will I just have to just try it over and over again until I get the timing right?

 

[Deathfox30]

I'm having issues doing Sheik's DACUS. I have the R button set to attack, and use that while I DACUS.

Any tips? Or will I just have to just try it over and over again until I get the timing right?

You should try clawing and hitting the A button with your pointer finger. It's not that awkward and I can do her DACUS consistently doing it.

The shoulder buttons are just weird to press IMO. If nothing else I think you should try remapping Z to attack.

If it's just the timing, try to input the U smash as soon as you can after you input the dash attack. The timing is very strict, just mess with it until you get it.

 

[Dnyce]

It's all good, just partition your Mac and install windows

I personally hate macs, but since we got one for work, I decided I might as well.

Well, the hard-drive on my laptop is dead. Right now I'm currently working around that by plugging in a 1TB external through a usb slot and running all my stuff on OSX off that.
I had initially tried partitioning my hard-drive to run both windows and mac; however, the liability with that is if my external accidentally gets loose or unplugs while in use... both mac and windows partitions get corrupted. Only having one resolves that problem and I can't really just buy another hard-drive for windows since my laptop needs mac start-up utilities (thus running into the problem before, lol).

I found this out the hard way when my hard-drive initially died 2 weeks before finals... and I corrupted the hard-drive I bought as a work around got corrupted 2 days before finals @.@ Luckily, walmart gave me a full refund for the 500GB I bought, and a 1TB was on sale for only $5 more

I'm having issues doing Sheik's DACUS. I have the R button set to attack, and use that while I DACUS.

Sheik's dash animation last an abnormally long time, so you may want to try delaying your dash attack + up-smash until just a bit later than what you're trying now.

The shoulder buttons are just weird to press IMO. If nothing else I think you should try remapping Z to attack.

The timing is very strict.

^This

And it's a 1-frame input... lol. "very strict" is putting it a little too lightly

 

[-Ominous-]

Mmkay, thanks for the help guys.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Is there a list of sheiks guarantee'd GR followups around?

 

[eveningninja]

3 Questions...

1. I see a lot of talk about "buffering" attacks/inputs during combos or DACUS-ing or something. What exactly does buffering refer to, how is it useful, and how do I do it? Thanks.

2. Also, I'm practicing DACUS-ing at the moment, and am debating whether or not I want to continue practicing the Clawing technique. Do you Shiek users find Clawing to be beneifical and unlock more potential to your playing, or is it unnecessary or even possibly counter-productive to tech skill? I hear some people just set the R trigger to attack and use that to DACUS. Thoughts?

3. For Shiek, Tap Jump on or off?

Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

1. I wish I could be of more help to you on this one. Buffering is inputting a move in a given time frame so that it comes out on the next available frame. Given that, I'm actually not sure how to explain how to buffer so can someone help me out on this?

2. I personally have set my R trigger as an attack and it makes preforming DACUS with Sheik much easier. As far as counter-productive to tech-skill, no not at all. It takes some getting used to at first but once you have the swing of it, improving tech-skill is merely repetition at that point.

3. All depending on your comfort. Personally, tap-jump off for aiding the input of DACUS. Just my opinion though.

Good Luck! Hope this helps some.

 

[Judo777]

3 Questions...

1. I see a lot of talk about "buffering" attacks/inputs during combos or DACUS-ing or something. What exactly does buffering refer to, how is it useful, and how do I do it? Thanks.

2. Also, I'm practicing DACUS-ing at the moment, and am debating whether or not I want to continue practicing the Clawing technique. Do you Shiek users find Clawing to be beneifical and unlock more potential to your playing, or is it unnecessary or even possibly counter-productive to tech skill? I hear some people just set the R trigger to attack and use that to DACUS. Thoughts?

3. For Shiek, Tap Jump on or off?

Thanks.

1. Buffering is using a window (its 10 frames long) called the buffer window. Its useful because it makes sure you do something as soon as possible. Just about anything to my knowledge can be buffered. To explain further if you do anything that causes you to lag (like say doing an up b and landing) if you do an action (like attack) within the last 10 frames of your lag (or 10 frames before you can normally, btw 10 frame is 1/6 of a second) you will do it the first possible frame (or instant) sheik is able to that action.

To put in better perspective. If you jump and airdodge into the ground trying doing an up smash right as you hit the ground. If you did it right sheik will do an up smash right after she stands up a little later than you told her to (cause she was still in landing lag.) Its useful because it gives you a larger window to do something as fast as possible.

2. I also set my R button to attack cause I think its easier and better than clawing (simply because the concept of switching my hand position on the controller seems limiting during the speed of real match). However you don't have to use R you can use L or even Z. I don't recommend Z but if you are gonna use a trigger, use the one that you don't normally use to shield (I have always shielded with L even in melee so I switched R to attack).

3. Your preference. There is a pro and con to both IMO. Tap jump on means you have an extra jump button that your thumb will ALWAYS be on (which is very VERY nice, because it means you don't have to move ur thumb from attack to jump or vice versa.) I actually wish I had an extra button on my controller that i could switch to jump but I don't.

However the con of tap jump on is that if you ever have to SDI up like say out of GW turtle or Snakes nair, you risk accidentally using your double jump (if you escape for a secong then get caught again anyway) and getting hit without your double jump is VERY VERY dangerous.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

-So yeah again Sheiks grab release stuff, is there a list?
-What are the core moves i'll be using with sheik and what will i be using them for(i.e needles to punish landings or something)
-Any Sheik specific AT's i should learn? (including situational stuff)
-Speaking of AT's any help with sheiks platform canceling out of DJ off stage? Like is there some sort of visual aid i can use? I can time it perfectly with a FH onstage but can't offstage.

and last but not least just a random question, why do you use sheik? I'm picking her up cause she's fun and i like ninjas lol

 

[sheikamaru]

/ninjaslol

 

[Zatchiel]

I'm pretty new to Sheik myself, but I'll try. Anyone correct me if I'm mistaken.

-So yeah again Sheiks grab release stuff, is there a list?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=249620
This should help you out.

-What are the core moves i'll be using with sheik and what will i be using them for(i.e needles to punish landings or something)

Jabs, Needles, Ftilt, aerials, but I could see Fair, Nair, and Bair being your most valued. Utilt is also an okay finisher for Ftilt lock. Grabs will suffice to punish landings, as well as dash attack. Dash attack is risky since it's very punishable OoS, so don't abuse it to the point where it becomes predictable; use it sparingly.

-Any Sheik specific AT's i should learn? (including situational stuff)

DACUS is really beneficial. Other than that, a few ATs like Needle and Vanish gliding also play situational roles. Vanish can also be used to KO, so that's a plus. Canceling Needle charge isn't exactly an AT, but it's very useful for getting Needles ready, then canceling with the shield button, and performing another action. It can leave the opponent confused in many instances. Oh, and B-reverse and wavebounce Needles also come in handy, especially on the ground. Run > wavebounce Needles can contribute to your mobility, as well as leaving your opponent guessing.

-Speaking of AT's any help with sheiks platform canceling out of DJ off stage? Like is there some sort of visual aid i can use? I can time it perfectly with a FH onstage but can't offstage.

Honestly, I don't think I can help with this. I'd rather someone else give this a go.

and last but not least just a random question, why do you use sheik? I'm picking her up cause she's fun and i like ninjas lol

Sheik is a really fun character to use. I love her onstage mobility and play speed, as well as her high learning curve.

 

[Judo777]

Sheik has the fastest double jump in the game. its really hard to time and probably the strictest window as a result.

 

[Dnyce]

Sheik has the fastest double jump in the game. its really hard to time and probably the strictest window as a result.

I didn't even know double jumps had start-up O.o


Learned something new! haha

 

[Ripple]

how is it hard to time a double jump? once you're in the air, you press jump. how is that strict?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I think he meant at DJ into a platform cancel.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm going to assume that Judo simply had a poor choice of wording and meant that Sheik rises extremely quickly with her second jump, which makes timing a platform cancel from it relatively difficult.

 

[Judo777]

I'm going to assume that Judo simply had a poor choice of wording and meant that Sheik rises extremely quickly with her second jump, which makes timing a platform cancel from it relatively difficult.

^^^ yea my bad. And the way I tested that was in training mode 1/4 speed so my data is rough to say the least. I think shes tied with Falco and ZSS.

 

[<π]

I hear DK has a beastly second jump.

 

[Judo777]

I hear DK has a beastly second jump.

He does. Its the same height as sheiks but a tad slower.

 

[Ripple]

he can chase G&W's up-b before he can cancel it into anything.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

That's pretty awesome! ^

 

[<π]

DK is a monster... dude is SO quick and strong... so much range... it doesn't make any sense

 

[Zatchiel]

Would I have to double tap shield to throw up shield after cancelin Needle charge? If I press and hold shield button to cancel the charge, how many frames until my shield goes up on it's own?
Also, how would one go about PCing from double jump? I've got ground jump PCing down pretty well. (Sorry if these questions seem stupid, but I can't test these myself atm)

 

[Zankoku]

LemonChiffon

You have no idea how annoying this color is against a light background.

Would I have to double tap shield to throw up shield after cancelin Needle charge?

No, you can just hold shield.

If I press and hold shield button to cancel the charge, how many frames until my shield goes up on it's own?

7 frames to cancel charge. Shield is instantaneous (frame 1)

Also, how would one go about PCing from double jump? I've got ground jump PCing down pretty well.

I'm not sure what testing you would need, but logic dictates that the mechanics behind platform canceling from a double jump are the same as those for platform canceling from a ground jump.

 

[Fluttershy]

I've been trying to get back with sheik but I'm having trouble with canceling momentum (when recovering), and what is the easiest way to use dacus with the wiimote and nunchuck other than using the shake smash?

 

[Zatchiel]

I'd say set Z to attack and try using a directional pad button to shield. Otherwise, C works as well if you don't use it for your general jumping.

What part of the momentum cancel are you having problems with? FF-Fair if you get sent diagonal or upwards, I'm not too certain about momentum canceling when sent directly to the sides.

 

[Fluttershy]

I'd say set Z to attack and try using a directional pad button to shield. Otherwise, C works as well if you don't use it for your general jumping.

What part of the momentum cancel are you having problems with? FF-Fair if you get sent diagonal or upwards, I'm not too certain about momentum canceling when sent directly to the sides.

sides mostly upwards I usually use Dair (its what i usually use for Zelda)

I use C for jumping but i'll try using it to shield

 

[Zatchiel]

I'm pretty certain Sheik's Dair is the worst thing you could do since it's a stall-then-fall aerial.

Also, setting down on D-pad to Dsmash helps if you want to DACUS from a standstill and everything in between.