Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[Dnyce]

try it at higher percents.

are you doing it at zero percent?

Or account for DI? Most people aren't going to be sitting there keeping the control stick at neutral while being hit (until they know it's the best thing to do, lol).

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, I didn't account for those other factors, which I planned on doing next.

 

[Dnyce]

Dat cyan name

I've been drinking since the tournament last night.... m2k... etc... otherwise I would help

 

[phi1ny3]

Yup, I wanted to see from a more basic scenario if one got an advantage or not framewise. I basically tested only 0 and 25% on MK (I have a feeling it would've scaled better if I used Ivy/Luc as testers, but I don't think that was needed iirc), since those are the only times I more often really need a full needle storm to give me a followup (basically clutch stock stuff). I plan on higher increments, possibly for when they land (so like regular landing traps and RCO lag), and stuff like DI (btw Dnyce, what do you mean by it's best that they don't? I ask because I saw a set where Seibrik actually took advantage of getting closer to sheik with full needle storm (whether intentional DI or not) and got a grab pretty handily because of it.

 

[Dnyce]

oh, like olimar gets gimped and stuff so he alwa7s DIs up and that would make him longer to land and cause he's floaty sheik might get more frame advantage and I think I've had enough to drink tonight cause there were like 4 times where Ishould've used a period but I didn't so now I might get pregnant and last time I got drunk on swf I got banned; night
1

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh hehe, DIing up doesn't sound like a good idea

 

[Dnyce]

Oh hehe, DIing up doesn't sound like a good idea

It being a good idea doesn't mean Olimar mains (and possibly other characters) aren't naturally conditioned to do that when they don't know what else to do, haha. I mean, there aren't a whole lot of Sheiks or Olimars, so it's not like either of us have an amazing amount of practice in the match-up (aside from Judo ). I know I used to DI up on needles... until I started playing Sheik XD

 

[FEAR977]

In most situations, is it better to finish Sheik's jab so she does all of those multi-hits or is it better to do jab cancels such as grab, etc.

 

[phi1ny3]

All depends on what you want to do, but ultimately it's best to use an even spread of both, otherwise the opponent will get accustomed to one of them and punish (although I would highly recommend not using sheik's multijab against someone like Snake who can pretty much ftilt you as soon as you stop).

 

[FEAR977]

I have two quick questions:

1. What are sheiks best stages?

2. What moves are used to kill opponents most often? I find myself killing alot with usmash and bair.

 

[Zankoku]

1. Stages with ground underneath you most of the time.
2. I think Usmash (above), Nair, Vanish, Usmash (side), and Dsmash are her strongest kill moves, in that order.

 

[phi1ny3]

would you count sweetspot bair as well? It's hardly ever fresh, but when it is, imo it gets up there for kill moves (I guess same w/ fair, but that seems more specialized for gimps).

 

[Judo777]

would you count sweetspot bair as well? It's hardly ever fresh, but when it is, imo it gets up there for kill moves (I guess same w/ fair, but that seems more specialized for gimps).

yea actually i think sweet spot bair is right above nair.

Also i think vanish is above both bair and nair

 

[phi1ny3]

Uair is also an occasional killer, albeit rare.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Uair is also an occasional killer, albeit rare.

30% of my kills come from uair

 

[sheikamaru]

Yea.. as long as the opponent is like around 140 and the move is fresh lol

 

[<π]

vanish isn't all that strong nair is definitely stronger. bair is on par with nair. which one is "stronger honestly is mainly dependant on where you are on stage. nair can't be DIed as high vertically as baor can, but for the most part if one will kill the other will as well. (so off stage for example you'd choose snair over ssbair)
The main thing is depending on your play style one or both moves may be decayed and that may kind of fog your view of their effectiveness as a kill move.

vanish isn't very strong at all... and it doesn't have a very good default knock back angle either most people I play with are DIing towards me and don't expect it so the DI really bad and go straight up. but the move has a huge window and you should live till pretty high percents if you see it come and you should always see vanish coming.

vanish is usually pretty fresh... but be aware that the wind hit box it creates when you reappear; it decays the move as well...

dsmash is solid especially with fresh. (so always use jab over dsmash so you keep dsmash fresh, unless someone give you the double dsmash a low percents)It is one of the best and least situational kill moves we have because it combos out of jab; one of the safest and easiest to hit with attacks we have. It has a low knock back angle It will kill most of the cast around 130 with out huge issue at the edge of most stages.

 

[DKMikey]

Completely new to Sheik, and somewhat new to Brawl, so I have lots of questions (please bear with me, Sheik community!).

1. What is Sheik's best throw?

I know that throws are really situational, but I was just wondering if I was in the middle of Final Destination, what throw should I use? Going into practice mode, I found out that fthrow and bthrow do 7% per throw, while dthrow and uthrow do 6%.

I normally use fthrow, but after seeing Izaw's match against Haze, I noticed that he threw MetaKnight whichever direction was closest to offstage, and dthrow managed to net him a lot of combos.

2. Do I need to know many of the ATs as Sheik?

I'm having a lot of trouble executing these--for example, when I try a vanish glide I either press up+B before I leave the stage, or side B. Although they're flashy, I'm not so sure how efficient they are.

3. If fair viable as a consistent option?

I find myself using this move way too often, but when I look at other sheik's videos, they don't really seem to be doing this move. More bair or nair.

4. Can dsmash be used for spacing?

Considering my alternate character is marth, I really do enjoy spacing (maybe why I use fair so much). However, dsmash seems to last quite a while, so when people are close I normally use it to say "GTFO". Should I stop doing this? I feel like I can get easily punished for this or I am foregoing a KO move.

5. What's the best way to practice by myself?

Internet is slow, and I don't have anyone that will play with me. My friend in TX just told me to give up, but screw that. This game is awesome!

6. Is holding B to roll viable?

I found that pressing B and a direction makes sheik roll/dodge/whatever you call that thing. Considering you're also charging you're needles (even if it's for a short time), wouldn't that be better than just shield+direction to roll?

7. Who are some great Sheiks that I could look at (youtube)? What about Sheik tutorials?

Thanks!

 

[phi1ny3]

Stuff

1. Like you said, it's pretty dependent, but both fthrow and bthrow are generally her better ones. Dthrow works for trapping and reading for juggles, but realize it has less advantage than it looks, but it's still nonetheless useful for if you can read their options coming down and aren't MK usually lol.

2. No, most ATs in general are pretty situational except like Glidetossing for most characters, unless you count really basic things like SH FF aerials ATs lol. The only ones you really need arguably are DACUS, and knowing which characters you can air release -> DACUS. Everything else is just smart play and mixups.

3. Fair is generally not good for zoning against bigger/faster aerials, it's great for if they are pressured to put shield up because it baits a lot of bad responses, since fair is deceptively safe if used properly. It's a good edgeguarding aerial too since it has a nice angle if you hit with it right. Also a good option out of ftilt depending on percent and the opponent's character.

4. Dsmash is deceptively hard to punish, but don't get predictable with this move, because good opponents will punish this move easily, and you want to save it more often for killing at later percents. Most of the time, it's a good idea to use jabs where you would normally use dsmash.

5. Umm, best thing I can say is that you practice "shadow boxing" with a CPU, if you know what I mean. Focus less on rushing in and abusing the AI's bad reactions, and focus more on using your safest options and working on your mixups. Practice DACUS and air release -> DACUS until you get them consistent as well. tbh, I would avoid trying to get practice by yourself, if you can manage to find a scene or a buddy to practice with, that's really good. Wifi is also a decent alternative, although the lag can screw up your spacing and make habits, you learn to read and predict on wifi pretty well.

6. Yes and no. Roll out of needles is just about as good or bad as it is when you do a regular roll, it's great sometimes for getting out of pressure easily, but the commitment a roll makes you take is something a good opponent will take advantage of (snake's ftilt will make quick work of roll habits lol). It's decent as a surprise sometimes if they're trying to punish your needles at a closer range, but the fact that one is charging needles at that close of a range to begin with means you need to change some stuff lol. The better option is to SH charge needles, so you can cancel them before landing and are still able to move while charging, making you a little less vulnerable. Even then, you'll want to make sure you're charging needles at a safe distance away, the charge stance even when canceled as fast as possible leaves you pretty open.

7. Earth, Daiki, and Cross are good Japanese sheiks to watch. Biggad, Edu, Izaw, and Light are good European sheiks. And of course, Light (a different light lol), Ed! (although he hardly has any videos lol), NEO (only has a couple of recent sheik videos though), and Choknator are good sheiks to watch, although all of them have pretty sparce videos. Tutu has a good sheik to get started on too. I'm probably forgetting a few lol

 

[DKMikey]

1. For MK, it's just grab release, pummel...grab release...(repeat when possible), and at killing percents, a DACUS?

2. I am terribad at SH FF, especially since once I short hop on the wiichuck, I feel pretty good and then forget to FF. When I don't SH, I FF. How would I DACUS with a wiichuck (maybe out of your expertise, but any help is appreciated).

3. Is bair a better option? What about nair? I normally use fair like I would do so if I was a marth. :\ (seems like a big mistake)

4. Is jab cancel a better option than jab?

5. Can't get a buddy until I go to college (in about a year). By that time, SSBB4 will be out. :D

6. Why do people not like rolls here? Is it because once you roll, you're comitted for a few frames and can get easily punished for it? I tend to roll a lot (when I play level 9s, they roll a lot, so I guess I picked up that bad habit from them). What are some better alternatives to rolling, and in which situations?

7. Thanks!

 

[FEAR977]

Can someone pleeeeease give me tips on learning sheiks DACUS. My sheik is getting better and I want to use her in my next tourney, but I suck at the DACUS. I've practiced it for like a month and I still have alot of times where I really struggle with it. So can someone give me some tips on easy/faster ways to learn it, etc. I have L set to attack.

 

[phi1ny3]

More stuff

1. Pretty much, as long as you grab MK in kill percents and don't pummel, you'll force an air release every time (although platforms can stop you from getting a successful DACUS).

2. Oooooh, well, let's just say it's a bit hard to find good Wiimote + nunchuk players, the only ones I know of are Tearbear and UltimateRazer. If you can/feel comfortable enough to try, get a GC controller (Playasia.com has some really good ones) and practice. I don't think people can really help with DACUS on the wiimote + nunchuk, it's hard enough on the GC controller as it is , but if you can do it consistently and other more common inputs, more power to you.

3. Yes, bair is better for spacing purposes over fair, unless you're dealing with a character that stays on the ground a lot (like D3 or snake), or if they have little range like Wario. Nair is good for killing, punishing oos (if you jump oos, it removes shield drop lag, but once again, that might be tricky with a wiimote + nunchuk), and weak hit nair sets up for some nice strings/followups. The only time Sheik fair should act more like a Marth fair is offstage, because sweetspotting with sheik fair sends them on a low angle, good for edgeguarding/gimping.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by jab cancel over jab. Do you mean doing it instead of her rapid jab hits at the end of jab? It all depends on the situation, you never want to do only one option over and over again, like if all you did was jab jab -> grab, the opponent would anticipate it and escape before you get the grab/punish you. Mixing your options in a bit and appropriately is important to getting good at this game.

5. That's too bad

6. Against CPUs, rolls work fairly well. If you go to a tournament and predictably roll against a good ranked player in your state or region though, they will make it clear why you don't roll often (Lucario players have a tendency to lean on their rolls more often because Lucario's rolls are pretty much the best in the game and they help give him a lot of leverage, but even if your rolls are good, you still can get punished). My friend used to roll a lot to get around, and she learned that it gets you punished a looooot against good players (if the opponent is patient enough to wait, they can often hit you for a kill w/ a smash attack without worrying about whiffing), whenever you're tempted to roll to get away, replacing it with a SH backwards is probably the best most generic option to do instead. You can also try just walking around more and waiting just outside of your opponent's range to get a punish (a good basic for sheiks to get down when they get better in gameplay), or even throw out the occasional quick attack/spacer if you think they aren't going to punish.

7. No problem

Can someone pleeeeease give me tips on learning sheiks DACUS. My sheik is getting better and I want to use her in my next tourney, but I suck at the DACUS. I've practiced it for like a month and I still have alot of times where I really struggle with it. So can someone give me some tips on easy/faster ways to learn it, etc. I have L set to attack.

Here's a good video on how to do the inputs for DACUS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_CHWI4IXSw&feature=related

 

[Kuro~]

What are the specifics of the sheik ftilt lock on falco?

Where could i find more. I checked the follow up thread but i didn't see the answer.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

6. Why do people not like rolls here? Is it because once you roll, you're committed for a few frames and can get easily punished for it? I tend to roll a lot (when I play level 9s, they roll a lot, so I guess I picked up that bad habit from them). What are some better alternatives to rolling, and in which situations?

Rolling is a very, very common habit for newer players and people who have been playing for awhile get accustomed to seeing this a lot. This habit gets exploited.

However, rolling "away" from someone is typically hard to punish. So, in brawl, using a roll to get away is a smart move as it puts you most of the time in a neutral position from people.

The bad roll is typically a roll that goes "towards" your opponent. It can work, if you catch someone off guard, but it puts you at risk.

As someone said once, "At first you roll too much. Then, you roll never. But, you find the happy medium eventually."

Can someone pleeeeease give me tips on learning sheiks DACUS. My sheik is getting better and I want to use her in my next tourney, but I suck at the DACUS. I've practiced it for like a month and I still have alot of times where I really struggle with it. So can someone give me some tips on easy/faster ways to learn it, etc. I have L set to attack.

I take it after watching that video phiny posted and that you have practiced for awhile you know how to perform it. Here was a method I found that reduced the number of inputs and might make it a bit easier.

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Control stick position, with 5 as center.
While standing, dash by pushing the control stick into the 1 or 3 postion and hold it there.
After the dash happens, you want to c-stick down for the dash attack, then press your attack button.
[collapse=why it works]
Control stick in 1 or 3 position registers as a dash. But, after the dash happens, holding it in that position gets treated as holding up. So, the only difficulty with this method is making sure you hit the buttons in the right order and with the right timing. I usually found that rotating the control stick up added more area of error. This method gets rid of that extra need of moving the control stick up after dashing.
[/collapse]

 

[DKMikey]

Rolling is a very, very common habit for newer players and people who have been playing for awhile get accustomed to seeing this a lot. This habit gets exploited.

However, rolling "away" from someone is typically hard to punish. So, in brawl, using a roll to get away is a smart move as it puts you most of the time in a neutral position from people.

The bad roll is typically a roll that goes "towards" your opponent. It can work, if you catch someone off guard, but it puts you at risk.

As someone said once, "At first you roll too much. Then, you roll never. But, you find the happy medium eventually."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you basically saying that rolls are only used to reset spacing? I remember watching a video of a Sheik that rolled too much towards his opponent and got super-ultra-heavily-this-sucks punished, so I try not to do that too much.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I find that rolling in vs certain moves can be very efficient, like olimar's grab. If he grabs and you roll past it, its slow enough that you can punish. Also if someone is landing with an aerial rolling in can set up close range punishes.

 

[<π]

ideally you shouldn't ever roll. it slow and eay to punish (sheik can pretty much always punish a roll on reaction for example with needles or dash attack. :D knock downs should = free damage for us)

despite this roll, in the rock paper sissors game that a sheild can become, can often times feel like the fastest or safest option. I roll WAY too much.

 

[Zankoku]

I like to roll towards the ledge from facing it so that I can do the sliding up+B trick.

 

[phi1ny3]

Roll w/ Lucario is broken. I really do wish that needles didn't have that roll option, I've been doing those when I input for pivot needles lately, and it's really annoying when I do it like x2 times and my opponent starts punishing them.

 

[<π]

If you are charging needles when you land you can roll without the landing lag. 2 frame of vulenability on land.
/shrug

just gotta practice phil. : D
I get it pretty consistent. just move the conrtol stick left to right and as you reach the middle hit B you should pivot every time. think of it as one input instead of multiple inputs if you are having trouble

 

[Kuro~]

What are the specifics of the sheik ftilt lock on falco?

Where could i find more. I checked the follow up thread but i didn't see the answer.

Never replied to

 

[phi1ny3]

What more specifically do you need? It's basically a tilt lock that starts at about 25%ish if the ftilt is fresh, a little later if not, and goes until about 80-90%. You need to be very good at switching sides at the right time, since dropping it allows Falco to get in a good punish and escape the tilt lock.

 

[<π]

at higher percents you can stall the ftilt to keep falco lower to the ground and get a kill out of the usmash.

 

[Kuro~]

Thank you. That's what i needed. I needed to know when it starts and when it ends. And you have to be good at realizing when to switch sides correct? Does the turn around need to be buffered? Or is the timing pretty lenient if you get the general one.

 

[phi1ny3]

Basically you need to be good at knowing when the opponent has skootched far over enough to turn around to catch him again, or you'll completely miss him. Luckily at a certain point, that usually means you alternate sides w/o much guesswork.

 

[NO-IDea]

If you are charging needles when you land you can roll without the landing lag. 2 frame of vulenability on land.
/shrug

just gotta practice phil. : D
I get it pretty consistent. just move the conrtol stick left to right and as you reach the middle hit B you should pivot every time. think of it as one input instead of multiple inputs if you are having trouble

3 frames. 3 and a potentially bad position, or 4 with normal landing and more options, it's up to you.

 

[<π]

well.. with a normal land you fastest option is a sheild at frame 5 you have a jab at frame 6 a roll at frame 7?

I'm not saying it's the best option, I'm just saying its there.

And now I wanna test out overlapping the needle cancel animation with your landing and see if you can use it to avoid landing lag all together. for situations like (snap charge beam and I have no jumps. it's timed to hit me in my landing lag. *needle charge -> cancel it just before I hit the ground->shield*

/shrug

I need to get my wii fixed. lol.

 

[Dnyce]

Basically you need to be good at knowing when the opponent has skootched far over enough to turn around to catch him again, or you'll completely miss him. Luckily at a certain point, that usually means you alternate sides w/o much guesswork.

dat knee hitbox, L

 

[<π]

a trick I used to use help me with knowing when to turn is watch the way the camera pans.

brawls camera shifts around depending on where you are looking in relation to where you opponent is looking as well a position. once they move to the other side of you the camera will pan a bit to that side and you can use that as another visual queue

 

[X15 YumYum]

Can someone explain to me how to do DACUS? What is the best option with buttons to hit, and how exactly do you do it? It stands for Dash, Attack, Cancel, Up, Smash, Right?