Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[AphoticBankai]

How useful would you guys consider learning Zelda to be?

I actually started as Zelda and would switch to Sheik sometimes when I just couldn't do well, and people started to say my Sheik was better, and THEN I came to the boards and really learned Sheik.

But I know sometimes against heavier characters with good recoveries (mostly Snake <_<) I'll be pushing them into the 200%s before I can get the kill with Sheik, and the one thing I always liked about Zelda was the early kills I could get.

Is it worth trying to legitimately LEARN Zelda so that if I get a chance I could switch around when they're at 120%ish and go for a quicker kill?

 

[ddonaldo]

you could but there isnt much to learn really since you are going for the kill when you switch to zelda and that is it, dtilt is the main setup move

 

[ComradeSnake]

Sorry, you guys are probably tired of hearing questions about the whole shiek=zelda=shief thing but...

If you pause right after initiating the change then it takes much less time and is much harder to punish. Is this legal in tournaments?

kthxbai.

 

[ddonaldo]

no, it is not legal

 

[ComradeSnake]

Why not? Sorry, just that my friend thinks that it is stupid that I should be able to punish it so easily when it only takes so long because it is loading : /

 

[<π]

you can't pause in tournament.

 

[J4pu]

there are many reasons pausing is banned in tournaments but for this case why should you be allowed to improve one of your moves? if you used transform, you used transform. You don't see ganon players at all being allowed to unplug their opponents controllers if they use Utilt. Rules are not made to improve a characters moveset.

 

[ComradeSnake]

Oookay. Thank you for the answers!

 

[aefootballa008]

who's the best sheik in the world?

 

[<π]

who's The Best Sheik In The World?

: )

 

[-dMT-]

who's the best sheik in the world?

the guy right after <3's last post here...

 

[Airborne]

who's the best sheik in the world?

Some guy from some hick state that's named after a form of martial arts that he doesn't even know.

Spoiler

CWUTIDIDTHAR jk idk who the best is

 

[Zankoku]

Doesn't matter. We all suck.

 

[Judo777]

Anyone know the priority on vanish i dont think its transcendent but it might be ill check later anyone know?

Nevermind i checked it. It IS transcendent. Lol all of sheiks b moves are transcendent.

 

[Judo777]

Hey guys i'm just curious as to why we have never finished having a complete frame data for sheik. I can't even find the one east posted and the one in the tactical discussion is missing chain vanish and DA.

 

[febs]

looked thru the catalog was hoping to find a sheik player finder thread. didnt seem like you guys have one, just wanted to make sure do you guys?

 

[Tristan_win]

Hey guys i'm just curious as to why we have never finished having a complete frame data for sheik. I can't even find the one east posted and the one in the tactical discussion is missing chain vanish and DA.

I don't know how accurate it is but back in the day when I tested the frame data this is what I wrote down.

You will notice I didn't do cool down and some of the moves don't have disadvantage listed, well that's because I didn't care to do cool down because and East data seem to cover it well enough and testing disadvantage isn't something I find enjoyable if I knew the results weren't going to be favorable

Link to east thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255484&highlight=frame

Sheik Frame data
Dtilt
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun 7
Shield stun: 9
Disadvantage: 22
Ftilt
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun: 3
Shield stun: 6
Disadvantage: 12
Utilt
1st
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15+
Note: 2nd hit is too slow
2nd
Hit: 26
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15
Jab1
Start up: 1
Hit: 2
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15
Jab2
Start up: 14
Hit: 15
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 14
Dsmash1
Start up: 3
Hit: 4
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 13
Disadvantage: A lot.
Fsmash
Fsmash1
Start up: 11
Hit: 12
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage:?
Fsmash2
Start up: 30
Hit 31
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 11
Disadvantage:?
Usmash1
Start up: 10
Hit: 11
Hit stun: 12
Disadvantage: ZERO =^_^=
Usmash2
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 14
Disadvantage:?
Strong Nair
Start up: 6
Hit: 7
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 14
Disadvantage:?
Weak Nair
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage:?
Fair
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 11
Bair:?
Hit: 9
Shield stun: 12
Disadvantage:?
Weak nair
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 9
Disadvantage:?
Uair
Hit stun: 9
Shield stun: 12
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 9
Needle1
Shield stun: 7
Needle2
Shield stun: 11
Needle3
Shield stun: 13
Needle4
Shield stun: 15
Needlefull
Shield stun: 21

Aerial needle storm
-8

 

[Judo777]

I don't know how accurate it is but back in the day when I tested the frame data this is what I wrote down.

You will notice I didn't do cool down and some of the moves don't have disadvantage listed, well that's because I didn't care to do cool down because and East data seem to cover it well enough and testing disadvantage isn't something I find enjoyable if I knew the results weren't going to be favorable

Link to east thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255484&highlight=frame

Sheik Frame data
Dtilt
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun 7
Shield stun: 9
Disadvantage: 22
Ftilt
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun: 3
Shield stun: 6
Disadvantage: 12
Utilt
1st
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15+
Note: 2nd hit is too slow
2nd
Hit: 26
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15
Jab1
Start up: 1
Hit: 2
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 15
Jab2
Start up: 14
Hit: 15
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage: 14
Dsmash1
Start up: 3
Hit: 4
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 13
Disadvantage: A lot.
Fsmash
Fsmash1
Start up: 11
Hit: 12
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage:?
Fsmash2
Start up: 30
Hit 31
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 11
Disadvantage:?
Usmash1
Start up: 10
Hit: 11
Hit stun: 12
Disadvantage: ZERO =^_^=
Usmash2
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 14
Disadvantage:?
Strong Nair
Start up: 6
Hit: 7
Hit stun: 10
Shield stun: 14
Disadvantage:?
Weak Nair
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 7
Disadvantage:?
Fair
Hit stun: 8
Shield stun: 11
Bair:?
Hit: 9
Shield stun: 12
Disadvantage:?
Weak nair
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 9
Disadvantage:?
Uair
Hit stun: 9
Shield stun: 12
Hit stun: 7
Shield stun: 9
Needle1
Shield stun: 7
Needle2
Shield stun: 11
Needle3
Shield stun: 13
Needle4
Shield stun: 15
Needlefull
Shield stun: 21

Aerial needle storm
-8

i might just be blind but i dont see DA on there or the chain.

 

[Tristan_win]

i might just be blind but i dont see DA on there or the chain.

You sir are correct, there is no data on the dacus or the chain in that. I also can't find the original copy of the testing I did which I THOUGHT was in that doc, however

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9642627&postcount=1380

I wasn't a **** and kept the info to myself so there you go.

edit: This happens a lot with me in testing, like at one point I tested the shield disadvantage of all of Snakes moves on the ground, roughly learned all the numbers but then forgot to save it. Funny enough I always make the rough copy in notepad which also cause for this "lost of data" to occur.

Another funny note is how unorganized my data is, like in the doc title “Sheik frame data” I have written down for one reason or another my grandmother address right in the middle of it.

 

[Judo777]

You sir are correct, there is no data on the dacus or the chain in that. I also can't find the original copy of the testing I did which I THOUGHT was in that doc, however

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9642627&postcount=1380

I wasn't a **** and kept the info to myself so there you go.

edit: This happens a lot with me in testing, like at one point I tested the shield disadvantage of all of Snakes moves on the ground, roughly learned all the numbers but then forgot to save it. Funny enough I always make the rough copy in notepad which also cause for this "lost of data" to occur.

Another funny note is how unorganized my data is, like in the doc title “Sheik frame data” I have written down for one reason or another my grandmother address right in the middle of it.

Oh wow thnx alot man 6 frames is pretty good for a DA. Also good job organizing it into that range category good idea. Isn't a shield drop 8 frames tho so OoS should be +8? Idk tho im not as smart with this stuff as u guys.

 

[Tristan_win]

Oh wow thnx alot man 6 frames is pretty good for a DA. Also good job organizing it into that range category good idea. Isn't a shield drop 8 frames tho so OoS should be +8? Idk tho im not as smart with this stuff as u guys.

Ankoku frame data says it's 7 but it's been a little off before. When doing the OoS DA it's a pretty good idea to get into the habit to smash the directorial stick toward your opponent and your C stick down as your shield drop for best results.

edit: well look at me, posting and being helpful. I thought I retired. ~goes back to studying~

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, I guess it's this place's turn for me to ask this.

Long story short: I would like the point-of-view of Sheik users about the Pit v Sheik matchup. While I myself don't have no info on Sheik. Here's where I ask this:

May I get the help of some knowledgeable Sheik mains about the Pit v Sheik matchup so I could complete this matchup via highly-detailed summaries? (I have a format on the document that holds all of Pit's matchups)
The best way to contact me is on AIM (which I'll be on almost always), and sorry if I am kinda wasting time. I just wish to get these matchups done. And how many Sheik players do I need to help out? Well, I don't mind how many, though I prefer about 1 or 2 knowledgeable ones (that includes telling me how much and when Pit is affected by F-tilt locks, and any other Sheik trick that I need to be aware of).
I'll appreciate the help, guys, and thanks in advance.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@A. Pit: I can get back to on this later. I've got plenty of exp from playing R@vyn and SilentPinoy but sadly this is a MU where I also kind of struggle. I'll discuss when I am free.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I'll appreciate the help with that. Whenever you got the time, just AIM me up and I'll get to it ASAP. And I don't mind having more than 1 Sheik provide info, for the more the merrier. And thanks very much; you make me feel welcome around, unlike some other boards I have been around before.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Sorry I haven't gotten to you man; I've just been so busy finishing up this semester. My final final is 2moro and I got a grad party this weekend. You're on AIM a lot right? I'll just randomly tag you from time to time.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I understand bout school troubles, so take your time, though I myself may not have completely much time, well being kinda grown up and all. You know how it gets when life soon takes you away from gaming.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Do the Sheik Boards have hitbubble and/or frame data?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

We've had frame data at different times. I'd ask Ankoku for that. I dunno if we have ever had hitbubbles.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Speaking of frame data, any chance Sheik could get a video showing hit-box ranges like this old Pit one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQroxRnrtl8
Actually, Pit would have to update their own hit-box thing sometime, or at least I would with frame data.

 

[Zankoku]

Here's the thread with hit bubbles.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255436

We never got definitive frame data for the character.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Here's the thread with hit bubbles.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255436

We never got definitive frame data for the character.

Thank you, sir.

 

[Variable]

Here's the thread with hit bubbles.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255436

We never got definitive frame data for the character.

Yeah thanks Ankoku, I didn't even know we had this...

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I have some questions concerning Sheik's needles.

Is it better to find time to charge your needles and release them as a full burst from time to time or throw a needle or two at your opponent frequently?

Also, how useful is a short-hopped needle-throw for ledgeguarding? Would I be better off chasing them offstage with N-Airs, F-Airs, and B-Airs?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Needles, in terms of SH'ing them of stage is really dependant on the character's recovery IMO.

As far as throwing them burst vs. One or two, I'd tell you that you can't go wrong with either way. They cause disruption and chaos and that's a good thing.

 

[Judo777]

I have some questions concerning Sheik's needles.

Is it better to find time to charge your needles and release them as a full burst from time to time or throw a needle or two at your opponent frequently?

Also, how useful is a short-hopped needle-throw for ledgeguarding? Would I be better off chasing them offstage with N-Airs, F-Airs, and B-Airs?

To be honest i would say that everything concerning needles is honestly matchup dependent. Burst can be good if u want a free 18% punisher but its also nice to throw them to disrupt ur opponents timing. However i don't think there is any matchup where either cant be useful so i guess it really up to experience.

Offstage IMO it never hurts to hit someone offstage with a needle or two it always messes peoples recovery up a little even if its not an important amount. Id really say that if they are in a position where u can it them with an aerial in a good spot then do it but if not go for needles if u can.

I would only suggest throwing needles at MK offstage however its too risky to go offstage against him.

 

[Zankoku]

Burst is a guaranteed punish to people who like to jump and land with an air-dodge. Any number of needles is fine for disruption.

No number of needles can beat PK Fire, unfortunately.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Burst is a guaranteed punish to people who like to jump and land with an air-dodge. Any number of needles is fine for disruption.

No number of needles can beat PK Fire, unfortunately.

Can they beat Lucas's?

 

[Variable]

Can they beat Lucas's?

Not sure... =/


To get more opinions on your other question:


Needles: I normally use the 18% punisher, but like everyone else said either way it messes up your opponent. I tend to use 1 hit needles for faster characters so it slows them down. Characters like: MK (Completely shuts down tornado too) Sonic, pika, diddy, fox, etc. Anybody who is farily quick. However towards your heavier characters like Snake or DDD I use the fully charged needles, because it's easy to catch the slower characters off guard.

SH Needles:

MOST of the time If you have the chance, go for Fair, Bair, or Nair when trying to edge guard. Sheik is really good at edge guarding and gimping, so it's best to take advantage of it everytime you can get your opponent off the map. Still, Needles do throw off peoples recovery, so it isn't a bad move.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm pretty sure I tested on Lucas', specifically. The PK Fire bolt manages to eat all six needles without detonating.

I almost forgot, toss a needle to punish ledgehops for characters like Mario, Marth, etc. because getting hit out of the air forces you into a hard landing from any height, so if they don't react and just do a neutral landing after getting needle'd then you have enough time to usmash them for it.

 

[Nova]

Hi.

What's the general opinion on Sheik's whip? I hardly ever use and I've been told that I should incorperate it more into my game. Is it useful/do you find yourself using it in specific situations? Or is it just a ****ty move that should be avoided?

Sowie if this has been answered in this topic already, I just want the current opinion on it. <3

I'm not very good either, Sheik's my secondary behind Snake.

Edit: Errr, and by whip I mean chain, wtf. >_>