Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[riocosta123]

Yeah, RC by a country mile.

 

[<π]

frigate isn't bad. just DI well and you'll recover everytime.

RC isn't that amazing because you can't use you ground speed or needles ever the whole match. Learn it any way though it isn't auto lose by any means. and some times there are better stages to ban to hinder your opponent.

 

[Judo777]

frigate isn't bad. just DI well and you'll recover everytime.

RC isn't that amazing because you can't use you ground speed or needles ever the whole match. Learn it any way though it isn't auto lose by any means. and some times there are better stages to ban to hinder your opponent.

yea its not recovering thats the issue its having to vanish on stage everytime that kinda sucks.

 

[riocosta123]

Only on the right side.

 

[<π]

yea its not recovering thats the issue its having to vanish on stage everytime that kinda sucks.

it isn't as bad as it seems. since you can pass through the floor + lagless landing you actually have a lot of options as to where to return when you are coming back. especially when the stage is uneven. I'm not going to act like I never get punished. but all of your options are so drastically different that a lot of the time you can avoid being hit all together and that's on reaction.

that same lack of edge will make people wary about how they attempt to edge gaurd you, it really isn't as bad as you'd normally think.

The first and second stages are good for sheik needles **** so hard on the second transformation, and sheik is really good at controlling the center of the stage in transformation 2.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How can I use the f-tilt combo better? Like what percents should I start it @ and what %s will it lead to up-smash?

 

[<π]

past 35 is your best bet to start on every character below that most can get out with frame 3 or less moves or even sheild.

ftilt usmash varies character to character and depends on their percent, weight and how much you've decayed ftilt. I say just play a lot use ftilt a lot and you'll start to just know when you can and can't get it bassed on the last time you hit (that what I do for the most part) if usmash will kill then ftilt->usmash combos.

 

[phi1ny3]

So what exactly are the drawbacks to using Sheik/Zelda in tandem properly? I can see an issue w/ using Zelda when Sheik has a guaranteed kill setup, but doesn't outdamaging many character (plus not worrying about having sheik usmash fresh/sweetspotted, thus becoming a very painful damage racker in some scenarios), only to switch to a character with more possible kill potential (plus has a really good setup for those kill moves, dtilt) create a better fit? Like I said, there are some MUs I can see this not working (like MK, Snake, a couple of other way better characters lol), but I would think that the idea that Zelda's mediocrity surpasses her capability to be used is a tad wrong, because that sounds very much only true from a neutral position, whereas in the dual use, often the opponent finds himself in a huge percent gap (unless of course, it's someone who is much, much better, aka MK)

that and the previous notion that you switch to zelda for Sheik's bad MUs, which I think everyone knows is also a little flawed.

 

[Tristan_win]

past 35 is your best bet to start on every character below that most can get out with frame 3 or less moves or even sheild.

ftilt usmash varies character to character and depends on their percent, weight and how much you've decayed ftilt. I say just play a lot use ftilt a lot and you'll start to just know when you can and can't get it bassed on the last time you hit (that what I do for the most part) if usmash will kill then ftilt->usmash combos.

=( What about the Ftilt charts?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ftilt chart = glory!

 

[Judo777]

Hey sheiks i have a question i have been testing and as im sure alot of you know sheik can definitely vanish more than 16 directions. I know for a fact she can at least vanish 32 and maybe even 40 im not sure and i can't manage to test it i was wondering if anyone would want to try and help me out or take charge with the research.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Judo, as a Zelda main as well, I'm more than confident that sheik has the same amount of directions as Zelda. We can talking as many as 64 if you're good on a joystick.

 

[Judo777]

Judo, as a Zelda main as well, I'm more than confident that sheik has the same amount of directions as Zelda. We can talking as many as 64 if you're good on a joystick.

64 seems like alot and i hear that it may be possible but i want to make sure we know exactly how many we have.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ok, I can get work on this then when I get the time.

 

[Judo777]

ok also i know we had a list of GR DACUS options on alot of people and i was wondering if anyone knows where that is? Cause i was testing and i think it only works guaranteed on like 3 characters........ which are MK, Lucas, and pika and pika doesn't tipper all the others we cant force air releases on or they just don't go low enough.

 

[<π]

its at least 32 directions I believe it is 64 though. understanding the directions is huge... like if teh stage is above you or level, but NE will get you killed NEE may be just enough to land you on stage. understanding how far all the distances go is huge so you know the furthers possible distances you can upB from and safely make i to the stage or edge.

Shameless plug (cuz all my vids are horrible)
http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi#p/f/5/i85euqQhlS4
http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi#p/f/6/BWjFS8Kn6nc

 

[Judo777]

its at least 32 directions I believe it is 64 though. understanding the directions is huge... like if teh stage is above you or level, but NE will get you killed NEE may be just enough to land you on stage. understanding how far all the distances go is huge so you know the furthers possible distances you can upB from and safely make i to the stage or edge.

Shameless plug (cuz all my vids are horrible)
http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi#p/f/5/i85euqQhlS4
http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi#p/f/6/BWjFS8Kn6nc

Yea i think someone needs to do some testing cause i know for a fact that mario isnt DACUS-able out of grab release he can jump before we hit em. I knew sopo worked but i think alot of character either dont have to air release or they can jump before we hit em.

 

[phi1ny3]

Hey sheiks,

sweetspot usmash (the one that does a ton of damage) when fresh and uncharged, does it do 38%?

 

[riocosta123]

I'm pretty sure it's 28-29

 

[Judo777]

I'm pretty sure it's 28-29

^^^ true statement.

 

[Tristan_win]

I have it written down as

Tip Usmash 17%
Usmash 13%
2x Usmash 30%

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Ok, after hearing about X's sucess, I'm beginning to think that Sheik is waay better than she is given credit for. She can control space so well with needles and her speed.

Do you think Sheik or Sheik/Zelda can win a national?

What will it take to get a Sheik to national level?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Do I think so, most definitely. We just need to play that most of us don't enjoy playing.

Like I don't like to run and throw needles for example. We really have the tools we need to win but we're certainly going to have to deal with some gay stuff and be accurate in all our reads.

 

[riocosta123]

A national? Hmmmmm. Not with the current ruleset (**** those counterpicks!). I do think that she can do much better than indicated, though I'm becoming more doubtful considering the dearth of good Sheik results.

Although I do think if someone is going to get far with Sheik it's going to have to be as a combo.

 

[<π]

sheik/zelda can win a national. balancing highly defensive and highly aggressive play styles, know when to switch is the huge thing on the sheik end. With sheik you don't really need to take huge risks she has all the tools to avoid them and still be a threat to any openings.

 

[-Cross-]

RC, Frigate, i always say yoshis is her worst neutral but im not sure about that. Sheik doesn't really have bad stages aside from RC and the first part of frigate.

Did you also consider the MLG CP list? Regardless looks like Sheik is a solid character

 

[<π]

RC is sheik's worst stage and that isn't even a bad stage for her.

 

[Judo777]

RC is sheik's worst stage and that isn't even a bad stage for her.

Yea tbh sheik balances her high moblility and tools so that she can really be quite effective on any stage i agree that her worst stages are RC and frigate but like <3 said its not that bad. Generally high mobility characters dont have bad stages. there are obvious exceptions tho.

 

[riocosta123]

She isn't terrible but she isn't amazing on any stage either except maybe FD for a few match-ups. But there is no FoxSnake on Halberd, Falco/Diddy on FD, etc. stage for Sheik which is kind of a problem.

 

[<π]

once you learn to punish landing lag sheik ***** hard on any flat stage.

 

[Tristan_win]

once you learn to punish landing lag sheik ***** hard on any flat stage.

QFT

Full Needle storm is most likely the best move in the game for punishing landing lag on a flat surface due to how safe it is, how much damage it can do, and how easily it can applied. I mean the full horizontal hit box of the needle storm is like shooting out a meta knight drill rush, maybe two.

Against characters without multiple jumps it can mean easily stack on anywhere between 4 to 18% extra which is always sweet after something like a tilt combo.

Edit: I'm about to talk about a lot of complex stuff dealing with numbers and chances are make very little sense while doing so...So feel free to skip the rest of my post especially if your new to sheik. I don't want people to start thinking they have to be human calculators to play sheik well.


Example: Fox
Fresh Ftilt starting a tilt lock on Fox at 30% to 55% so 6Ftilts
You combo into Utilt and since we are playing theory brothers right now it's fresh too so another 13%
Fox is now at 68%
Since he DI the Utilt he goes more vertical then horizontal and he DI's away from you because he doesn't want to get Utilt ***** again so you walk after him as you wait for him to land and when he does you nail him from half the distance of FD scoring a nice 12% bonus.

Fox is now at 80%

~yanks out of stale move formula as he prepares to get cereal on this ****~
Stale Move Multiple = 1-S
Ftilts stale moves decay before Utilt and needle storm.
0+0.1+0.09+0.08+0.07+0.06+0.05= 0.45
1-0.45 = 0.55 move stale.

Or

Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, not Ftilt/Utilt, not Ftilt/Utilt, not Ftilt/Utilt.

Now we add Utilt and Needle storm into the fun so

Needle, Utilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, not Ftilt/Utilt
___________0.08 0.07 0.06 0.05 0.04 0.3

Plus them all together to find Ftilt current decay 0.08+ 0.07+ 0.06+ 0.05+ 0.04+ 0.3= 0.33

1-0.33= 0.67 Ftilt Decay.

~check charts and is official having fun with this~

0.67 is very similar to 0.66 which is what 4Ftilts in a row is, in fact the difference in the numbers are so small we only see a 1% difference at 98%.

So fox is at what...80%? and we have a Decay almost identical to 4Ftilts

If we land another Ftilt at this point we can just barely combo directly into tipper usmash which wont kill unless the fox is ******** but would put fox over 100% and allow us to change to Zelda or we can do something more realistic and easy like jump into strong Nair.

Going into MOAR theory let's say instead of doing Usmash or Nair we do Fair after all fox is near the ledge, this could potentially knock fox off the stage and set him up for a gimp or more punishment.

 

[Judo777]

QFT

Full Needle storm is most likely the best move in the game for punishing landing lag on a flat surface due to how safe it is, how much damage it can do, and how easily it can applied. I mean the full horizontal hit box of the needle storm is like shooting out a meta knight drill rush, maybe two.

Against characters without multiple jumps it can mean easily stack on anywhere between 4 to 18% extra which is always sweet after something like a tilt combo.

Edit: I'm about to talk about a lot of complex stuff dealing with numbers and chances are make very little sense while doing so...So feel free to skip the rest of my post especially if your new to sheik. I don't want people to start thinking they have to be human calculators to play sheik well.


Example: Fox
Fresh Ftilt starting a tilt lock on Fox at 30% to 55% so 6Ftilts
You combo into Utilt and since we are playing theory brothers right now it's fresh too so another 13%
Fox is now at 68%
Since he DI the Utilt he goes more vertical then horizontal and he DI's away from you because he doesn't want to get Utilt ***** again so you walk after him as you wait for him to land and when he does you nail him from half the distance of FD scoring a nice 12% bonus.

Fox is now at 80%

~yanks out of stale move formula as he prepares to get cereal on this ****~
Stale Move Multiple = 1-S
Ftilts stale moves decay before Utilt and needle storm.
0+0.1+0.09+0.08+0.07+0.06+0.05= 0.45
1-0.45 = 0.55 move stale.

Or

Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, not Ftilt/Utilt, not Ftilt/Utilt, not Ftilt/Utilt.

Now we add Utilt and Needle storm into the fun so

Needle, Utilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, not Ftilt/Utilt
___________0.08 0.07 0.06 0.05 0.04 0.3

Plus them all together to find Ftilt current decay 0.08+ 0.07+ 0.06+ 0.05+ 0.04+ 0.3= 0.33

1-0.33= 0.67 Ftilt Decay.

~check charts and is official having fun with this~

0.67 is very similar to 0.66 which is what 4Ftilts in a row is, in fact the difference in the numbers are so small we only see a 1% difference at 98%.

So fox is at what...80%? and we have a Decay almost identical to 4Ftilts

If we land another Ftilt at this point we can just barely combo directly into tipper usmash which wont kill unless the fox is ******** but would put fox over 100% and allow us to change to Zelda or we can do something more realistic and easy like jump into strong Nair.

Going into MOAR theory let's say instead of doing Usmash or Nair we do Fair after all fox is near the ledge, this could potentially knock fox off the stage and set him up for a gimp or more punishment.

haha nice tristan although i have a different formula for fox that i always use.
Land a jab and do 2 jabs to a grab dthrow then attempt to read with an uair. Then punishing the landing with needle storm then proceed to tilt lock to death. Im not gonna lie i literally do that exact thing when trying to fight foxes lol

 

[<π]

fox can jab out of jab-short-grab when below like 20ish? watch out for that...

 

[riocosta123]

You act as if punishing landing lag is a unique attribute to Sheik. At the highest level everyone does that.

 

[<π]

but sheik is crazy good at it and it comes up all the time. you can punish landing lag from across that stage every time. Without risk to yourself. Even the all powerful MK can't do that.

and with moves like ftilt utilt fthrow bthrow etc. sheik is always setting up situations where the opponent is going to have to air dodge into the ground to avoid a follow up which sets up these landing lag situations that you can exploit. most characters lack low knockback moves and lack fast high damage projectiles. So yeah it's not unique to sheik but just like her rediculous punishment game she is just naturally good at it because of the tools she has.

 

[Tristan_win]

Hey what do you guys think be more useful to know?

Frame adv of Fresh Dtilt or frame adv of jab jab into shield. The reason I say into shield is because jab jab canceling takes longer and I currently do not know how long you would have to wait, it's also easier to test.

 

[<π]

I'd perfer jab... honestly...

 

[-Cross-]

How good is Sheik's edge game/planking? Does her wall jump/cling have any uses? Any good shenanigans using the quick ledge drop action from tethers?

 

[<π]

It isn't amazing... in a lot of match ups its hard to get on stage. from tether you can do a lot of sheik's moves in full invincibility, thats always nice. But rising those are punishable on shield so you may still want to space them if you won't hit 100%. wall cling and jump aren't amazing but they can save you from death as a stall or for extra vertical.

just gotta experiment with what you have and see what works best for you.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Wall cling is awesome on Yoshi's!