Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TooManyToastahs]

I've done it, I've combined all the best aspects of each Geno theorycraft out there to create the ultimate Geno moveset et. al.! I'm a madman, but I finally did it! FYI Timed Hits and Mallow assists are his gimmick (and Bob's your uncle)

Spoiler: Reveal Trailer

OPTION A: Geno is not revealed right away

The Smash 64 intro plays out as normal up until the fingers snap and the "toys" wake up. We then hear the audio continue to play as the screen pulls away to reveal the whole thing happening on an old CRT in a bedroom, just like the one in the intro but in more modern CG. The sky outside the window fades into a night sky as the TV turns to static. We then see a shooting star twinkle by in the night sky, and the toy box (off center in frame) begins to glow. This fanfare plays as the lid slowly busts open in a burst of light. The screen fades to white as the light fills everything, and we see "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X Super Mario RPG" appear on the screen just as the fanfare finishes playing out. The trailer ends.

OPTION B: Geno is revealed

This fanmade trailer

Spoiler: Taunts, Victory, Special Animations

Entrance: Geno's star spirals down and settles into the toy body, causing it to grow to life size and become the Geno we know and love
Taunt 1: View attachment 282013Begins with a little flip of his cape, then goes into this laughing animation

Taunt 2: Reaches under his hat and pulls up a small item, unseen, that poofs into sparkles as the item sfx plays

Taunt 3: Faces the player to perform his famous head nod as Mallow appears beside him to bounce up and down excitedly, waving his fists

Victory 1: Spins in place as a Star Piece settles into his hands, held high in victory. Mallow stands beside Geno haling the Star Piece with a shocked look on his face.

Victory 2: Performs a cool spinning pose where he flourishes his cape, then ends with one hand outward and the other showing his exposed gun-arm in a threatening manner, similar to many popular fan renders. Mallow stands off to the side behind Geno, shadowboxing with a tough look on his face.

Victory 3: Geno turns to the camera and performs his victory nod. Mallow leaps up behind him giving double V-signs and cheering.

Victory Fanfare: What else could it be? (does not continue to play like Cloud's; it has a clear ending before going into the normal bg music for other characters)

Special Animation 1: When Geno is KO'd normally in a Stamina battle, he will wobble in place and then faceplant into the ground -- just like KO animation in Super Mario RPG

Special Animation 2: When Geno reappears on the revival platform, we see a quick animation of the true star form of Geno settling into the toy-sized doll and causing it to grow to "life-size" and stand up

Special Animation 3: If Geno is in a Team Battle with any other cast member from Super Mario RPG (Mario, Peach or Bowser), a special victory animation may play where Geno's star leaves the doll body and twinkles off screen as the other character(s) look up in awe.

Spoiler: Costumes

Some combo of these (by ZaneTheDragon on Deviantart) and/or these (by PJiggles over on Twitter)

Spoiler: Standard Attacks

• Jab: Simple punch
• Gentleman: Punch, opposite punch, cape swipe
• Rapid Combo: Fingershot (Finisher: Elbow cannon)
• Ftilt: Cape swipe (Timed hit: Finger shot)
• Utilt: Overhead cape swipe (Timed hit: Explosive fist at end of overhead swipe)
• Dtilt: Low cape swipe (Timed hit: Cape spin)
• Dash: Elbow thrust (Timed hit: Elbow explosion)
• FSmash: Double Punch w/ rocket fists as extended hitbox that gets longer w/ charge (Timed hit: Fists explode)
• USmash: multishot Star Cannon directly overhead (Timed Hit: One last burst of stars)
• DSmash: Geno Blast w/ more charge = more light beams, hits enemies down and excellent at spiking over ledge (Timed Hit: One more quick beam)
• Nair: Full body cape twirl similar to Kirby's Nair, sorta
• Fair: Elbow Cannon where Geno leans into his elbow, thrusts it forward and it explodes (Timed Hit: Double burst)
• Bair: Triple spread shot Star Cannon (Timed Hit: Shoots more stars)
• Uair: Arm Cannon overhead rapid shot similar to Mii Gunner (Timed Hit: Longer frames)
• Dair: Rocket punch downward for meteor ala Hard Knuckle (Timed Hit: Explodes)
• Grab: Arms sort of disjoint to extend grab distance
• Pummel: Headbutt
• Fthrow: Overhead toss similar to Hurly Gloves when Bowser grabs Mario
• Bthrow: Spins opponent around by their feet and does a full 360 spin before letting go
• Uthrow: Flips up into air, then sends rocket fists into the opponent to carry them upward before exploding
• Dthrow: Judo throws opponent into floor and then pops up to shoot them multiple times with arm cannon

Spoiler: Special Moves

• Neutral: Geno Beam - Same as everywhere else, nothing fancy. Charges up to 3 stars max. Beam is long and wide, increasing with charge, and fires just a tad slower than ROB's Laser but has roughly the same travel speed, "girth," and power. The Beam can be angled at 45 or shot straight up, and in the air it can be angled downward 45 or straight down. Huge lag at end of attack makes Geno vulnerable, but it has a very forgiving hitbox that lasts a while.
• Side: Geno Whirl - Shoots a lightning-fast disc of light that slices through opponents for light damage and flinch. The disc can be angled but will fly in a straight line once tossed. If a Timed Hit is nailed perfectly this attack will cause a Special Zoom and have knockback equivalent to one of Hero's Critical Hits. The damage will also jump to a whopping 50%. The sweetspot is very small and must hit exactly at the center of the opponent's body, similar to Rest.
• Up: Geno Boost - Geno powers up and leaps into the air, surrounded by red arrows. This attack deals the most damage and knockback at the start of his ascent and weakens over time. At the end of the jump, Geno will perform a flip to lightly knockback any opponents with minimal damage attached. If a Timed Hit is nailed at the start of this move, Geno will have Super Armor throughout his recovery and the finishing flip will have a bit more "oomph."
• Down: HP Rain - Mallow appears off the Z-axis and casts HP Rain, causing a small cloud to appear above Geno's head. Geno receives a burst heal of 5% at the start of this move, but will receive 1% healing at a rate of 2%/sec initially so long as he stands inside the cloud's rain. The cloud will remain in place while Geno can move freely, but the speed of its HOT decreases over time before the move eventually ends on its own. Opponents can also receive healing from the rain, but they will anger Mallow and get hit with Thunderbolt or a loosely accurate Snowy if they stay under the cloud too long (or touch the cloud at all, which instantly either electrocutes or freezes them). To determine if this move is ready, it has a small cooldown icon above Geno's HUD that shows a FP meter filling up a small cloud icon slowly. The cooldown is roughly 20s, while the move itself lasts for about 5s.

Spoiler: Final Smash

Geno Flash: Geno flips back his cape and points out his gun arm ready to fire as Mallow appears in front of Geno. Mallow will crash his cymbals directly in front of them and, if they connect with a foe, the Final Smash will play out on stage (no cinematic) as the opponent is stunned in place. Within an instant, Geno lets loose a wide barrage of Geno Blast beams that can catch multiple opponents on stage (not just the one initially trapped) as Mallow casts a loosely accurate Star Rain on top of the beams. This is followed up with Mallow then casting Shocker on the trapped opponent directly as Geno leaps back, transforms into a cannon, and then uses Geno Flash to unleash a Smart Bomb-like explosion onto the stage. The Final Smash ends with Geno reappearing and nodding while Mallow throws up a v-sign and then disappears.

Thoughts? Hate? Sorry to crud up the thread with this stuff, but I had my "eureka!" moment this evening and had to share it

This is truly the ultimate Geno moveset (pun fully intended), I especially love the incorporation of Mallow in his moveset. Great work!

I can’t really think of any criticisms I have with your full character concept... I guess I personally would like if the victory theme continued to play similar to Cloud’s, but that’s subjective really. Everything is really well thought out and put together, bravo amigo!

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I've done it, I've combined all the best aspects of each Geno theorycraft out there to create the ultimate Geno moveset et. al.! I'm a madman, but I finally did it! FYI Timed Hits and Mallow assists are his gimmick (and Bob's your uncle)

Spoiler: Reveal Trailer

OPTION A: Geno is not revealed right away

The Smash 64 intro plays out as normal up until the fingers snap and the "toys" wake up. We then hear the audio continue to play as the screen pulls away to reveal the whole thing happening on an old CRT in a bedroom, just like the one in the intro but in more modern CG. The sky outside the window fades into a night sky as the TV turns to static. We then see a shooting star twinkle by in the night sky, and the toy box (off center in frame) begins to glow. This fanfare plays as the lid slowly busts open in a burst of light. The screen fades to white as the light fills everything, and we see "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X Super Mario RPG" appear on the screen just as the fanfare finishes playing out. The trailer ends.

OPTION B: Geno is revealed

This fanmade trailer

Spoiler: Taunts, Victory, Special Animations

Entrance: Geno's star spirals down and settles into the toy body, causing it to grow to life size and become the Geno we know and love
Taunt 1: View attachment 282013Begins with a little flip of his cape, then goes into this laughing animation

Taunt 2: Reaches under his hat and pulls up a small item, unseen, that poofs into sparkles as the item sfx plays

Taunt 3: Faces the player to perform his famous head nod as Mallow appears beside him to bounce up and down excitedly, waving his fists

Victory 1: Spins in place as a Star Piece settles into his hands, held high in victory. Mallow stands beside Geno haling the Star Piece with a shocked look on his face.

Victory 2: Performs a cool spinning pose where he flourishes his cape, then ends with one hand outward and the other showing his exposed gun-arm in a threatening manner, similar to many popular fan renders. Mallow stands off to the side behind Geno, shadowboxing with a tough look on his face.

Victory 3: Geno turns to the camera and performs his victory nod. Mallow leaps up behind him giving double V-signs and cheering.

Victory Fanfare: What else could it be? (does not continue to play like Cloud's; it has a clear ending before going into the normal bg music for other characters)

Special Animation 1: When Geno is KO'd normally in a Stamina battle, he will wobble in place and then faceplant into the ground -- just like KO animation in Super Mario RPG

Special Animation 2: When Geno reappears on the revival platform, we see a quick animation of the true star form of Geno settling into the toy-sized doll and causing it to grow to "life-size" and stand up

Special Animation 3: If Geno is in a Team Battle with any other cast member from Super Mario RPG (Mario, Peach or Bowser), a special victory animation may play where Geno's star leaves the doll body and twinkles off screen as the other character(s) look up in awe.

Spoiler: Costumes

Some combo of these (by ZaneTheDragon on Deviantart) and/or these (by PJiggles over on Twitter)

Spoiler: Standard Attacks

• Jab: Simple punch
• Gentleman: Punch, opposite punch, cape swipe
• Rapid Combo: Fingershot (Finisher: Elbow cannon)
• Ftilt: Cape swipe (Timed hit: Finger shot)
• Utilt: Overhead cape swipe (Timed hit: Explosive fist at end of overhead swipe)
• Dtilt: Low cape swipe (Timed hit: Cape spin)
• Dash: Elbow thrust (Timed hit: Elbow explosion)
• FSmash: Double Punch w/ rocket fists as extended hitbox that gets longer w/ charge (Timed hit: Fists explode)
• USmash: multishot Star Cannon directly overhead (Timed Hit: One last burst of stars)
• DSmash: Geno Blast w/ more charge = more light beams, hits enemies down and excellent at spiking over ledge (Timed Hit: One more quick beam)
• Nair: Full body cape twirl similar to Kirby's Nair, sorta
• Fair: Elbow Cannon where Geno leans into his elbow, thrusts it forward and it explodes (Timed Hit: Double burst)
• Bair: Triple spread shot Star Cannon (Timed Hit: Shoots more stars)
• Uair: Arm Cannon overhead rapid shot similar to Mii Gunner (Timed Hit: Longer frames)
• Dair: Rocket punch downward for meteor ala Hard Knuckle (Timed Hit: Explodes)
• Grab: Arms sort of disjoint to extend grab distance
• Pummel: Headbutt
• Fthrow: Overhead toss similar to Hurly Gloves when Bowser grabs Mario
• Bthrow: Spins opponent around by their feet and does a full 360 spin before letting go
• Uthrow: Flips up into air, then sends rocket fists into the opponent to carry them upward before exploding
• Dthrow: Judo throws opponent into floor and then pops up to shoot them multiple times with arm cannon

Spoiler: Special Moves

• Neutral: Geno Beam - Same as everywhere else, nothing fancy. Charges up to 3 stars max. Beam is long and wide, increasing with charge, and fires just a tad slower than ROB's Laser but has roughly the same travel speed, "girth," and power. The Beam can be angled at 45 or shot straight up, and in the air it can be angled downward 45 or straight down. Huge lag at end of attack makes Geno vulnerable, but it has a very forgiving hitbox that lasts a while.
• Side: Geno Whirl - Shoots a lightning-fast disc of light that slices through opponents for light damage and flinch. The disc can be angled but will fly in a straight line once tossed. If a Timed Hit is nailed perfectly this attack will cause a Special Zoom and have knockback equivalent to one of Hero's Critical Hits. The damage will also jump to a whopping 50%. The sweetspot is very small and must hit exactly at the center of the opponent's body, similar to Rest.
• Up: Geno Boost - Geno powers up and leaps into the air, surrounded by red arrows. This attack deals the most damage and knockback at the start of his ascent and weakens over time. At the end of the jump, Geno will perform a flip to lightly knockback any opponents with minimal damage attached. If a Timed Hit is nailed at the start of this move, Geno will have Super Armor throughout his recovery and the finishing flip will have a bit more "oomph."
• Down: HP Rain - Mallow appears off the Z-axis and casts HP Rain, causing a small cloud to appear above Geno's head. Geno receives a burst heal of 5% at the start of this move, but will receive 1% healing at a rate of 2%/sec initially so long as he stands inside the cloud's rain. The cloud will remain in place while Geno can move freely, but the speed of its HOT decreases over time before the move eventually ends on its own. Opponents can also receive healing from the rain, but they will anger Mallow and get hit with Thunderbolt or a loosely accurate Snowy if they stay under the cloud too long (or touch the cloud at all, which instantly either electrocutes or freezes them). To determine if this move is ready, it has a small cooldown icon above Geno's HUD that shows a FP meter filling up a small cloud icon slowly. The cooldown is roughly 20s, while the move itself lasts for about 5s.

Spoiler: Final Smash

Geno Flash: Geno flips back his cape and points out his gun arm ready to fire as Mallow appears in front of Geno. Mallow will crash his cymbals directly in front of them and, if they connect with a foe, the Final Smash will play out on stage (no cinematic) as the opponent is stunned in place. Within an instant, Geno lets loose a wide barrage of Geno Blast beams that can catch multiple opponents on stage (not just the one initially trapped) as Mallow casts a loosely accurate Star Rain on top of the beams. This is followed up with Mallow then casting Shocker on the trapped opponent directly as Geno leaps back, transforms into a cannon, and then uses Geno Flash to unleash a Smart Bomb-like explosion onto the stage. The Final Smash ends with Geno reappearing and nodding while Mallow throws up a v-sign and then disappears.

Thoughts? Hate? Sorry to crud up the thread with this stuff, but I had my "eureka!" moment this evening and had to share it

I like the majority of this. I was never a fan of Mallow being a part of Geno's moveset. While I think it would be cool to have more of SMRPG in Geno's moveset and have Mallow get some screentime too I really see it as a disservice to Geno and makes it seem like he doesn't have enough original possibilities of his own to use as moves which isn't the case. At least you included Mallow pretty minimally. I'm not crazy about the throws, but chances are you're not really going to notice them too much anyway and I like the concept for how opponents are grabbed. The special animations are great. While I wouldn't want this to be his moveset simply because it would make him impossible to play for a bad player like me with all of the timed hits, I do think overall it is a great moveset that, for the most part, really represents Geno well and shows that a lot of thought was put into it. I know how exhausting writing these can be so well done. I also might just find this activity exhausting because of my tendency to always try to make my movesets different in significant ways from all the others that I've seen.

 

[Griselda]

My problem with Mallow having representation as a part of Geno's moveset rather than just being an assist/stage hazard is that if he's just helping out with Geno's specials, then it results in him just sort of popping in and out of existence, which is a little odd, to be honest.
(Yeah, Peach does it with Toad, but it's weird there, too.)

And if Geno and Mallow end up stuck together permanently like Ice Climbers, then that makes it impossible to do solo matches like Geno vs Cloud, for instance.

 

[link2702]

I don't really want mallow part of Geno's moveset, either they both get in(like that's gonna happen...) or Geno has a moveset entirely to himself, and mallow just stays as a stage backround and/or stage hazard.

WITH THAT said....

I wouldn't mind if Geno "borrows" one of mallows moves, though I'm not quite sure how it'd work.

Star Rain always seemed like a more Geno appropriate move IMO, and felt out of place with all of mallows elemental ones, so If they somehow gave Geno that move, either as part of a FS, or having it referenced in some other move, then that'd be ok by me.

 

[Vector Victor]

Star Rain could be Geno's Final Smash where Mallow pops up during it to help cast it, similar to Paula and Poo for Ness's Final Smash.


....or they could just make Mallow a bonus characters when Geno comes to the fighter's pass. With a Boshi echo.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd rather if Geno would just have his whole moveset to himself rather than have Mallow be apart of it. Victory screens are fine, but moveset? I'm not really feeling it. No matter what though, Geno would still be in the game and that's all this thread could ever ask for.

 

[RetroBro]

If Mallow isn't a playable character, he should just be an assist trophy or stage hazard.

 

[Deleted member]

The wait continues... the worst part is that if Geno isn’t 7, we’re gonna have to wait even longer the fact Nintendo delays the characters for some reason. For pete’s sake, let the next fighter be the company from Square so we can find out Geno’s fate. Good thing it’s very plausible from the recent Square spirit events.

 

[okamifire]

The wait continues... the worst part is that if Geno isn’t 7, we’re gonna have to wait even longer the fact Nintendo delays the characters for some reason. For pete’s sake, let the next fighter be the company from Square so we can find out Geno’s fate. Good thing it’s very plausible from the recent Square spirit events.

Out of curiosity, why does unrelated Square spirits indicate that the next DLC pass will be a Square character? I don't remember this happening with any of the other pass characters.

 

[Deleted member]

The wait continues... the worst part is that if Geno isn’t 7, we’re gonna have to wait even longer the fact Nintendo delays the characters for some reason. For pete’s sake, let the next fighter be the company from Square so we can find out Geno’s fate. Good thing it’s very plausible from the recent Square spirit events.

Speaking of spirit events, I think it's extremely strange that this week, we're getting a spirit event that is basically unthemed, and just has a bonus item reward. We very often float around the idea of spirit events being presented out of order, and this one feels like a prime suspect to be a placeholder or something scheduled for way later.

Out of curiosity, why does unrelated Square spirits indicate that the next DLC pass will be a Square character? I don't remember this happening with any of the other pass characters.

It doesn't, necessarily. Square spirit events are taken as a sign that Square is actively on board with Nintendo for Smash, though, and they also stand out as signs that those particular characters and/or their franchise will not be represented as a character, which increases Geno's odds, even if slightly. There is also the idea that Square content only ever comes with Square content, so for example, a Square character would not come with a mixture of Mii costumes from different companies, including returning costumes, and that logic is carried over to spirits. It isn't the biggest reach in the world, but it's pretty big.

 

[Enigma735]

I never thought it made sense to include Mallow as part of Geno's moveset. I have seriously seen people suggest a Geno and Mallow tag team like Ice Climbers, and that always made me cringe.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, why does unrelated Square spirits indicate that the next DLC pass will be a Square character? I don't remember this happening with any of the other pass characters.

There is no guarantee that the next fighter is from Square, but that is clearly a sign that Square still supports Ultimate.

 

[Elmorethemagician]

We had Geno's actual Creator listed on The Mario Wiki...
but sadly the staff removed it.

 

[Deleted member]

I never thought it made sense to include Mallow as part of Geno's moveset. I have seriously seen people suggest a Geno and Mallow tag team like Ice Climbers, and that always made me cringe.

I guess I understand the Mallow love - I mean, he's part of the game and has been ignored as well, but like... I don't have anything nice to say about Mallow. He's not presented as... likeable. Comes out of the gate weak and remains weak for the entire game, with extremely limited areas of usefulness here and there based purely on elemental weakness to electric attacks that it takes a strategy guide to even know exist, but even then, when you have Bowser ****ting damage on every enemy he touches, Peach healing the entire party, Mario forced to be part of the party (and isn't a slouch himself) and Geno doing the same as Bowser except looking cool while doing it, Mallow just sticks out like a sore thumb. He's a crybaby and is also as dumb as a sack of rocks, and the only stand-out thing about him is that he actually has character development in a game that is otherwise devoid of it, but ultimately, the story could have left his ass in Nimbus Land after beating Valentina and the player wouldn't feel necessarily robbed.

Geno coming to Smash as a playable character is the first priority, so even if his moveset involved Mallow, even if he and Mallow were the SMRPG Climbers, it's whatever. ****ty decision? Yes, extremely. Won't change my mind about playing him, but I would be thoroughly disappointed that my decade and a half long wait was to have my least favorite Mario RPG character attached to my favorite at the hip for nothing more than some misguided sense of representing both of Square's party members.

What I want more for Mallow is an SMRPG remake that makes him useful and maybe less of a moron (even at age 6 I could not suspend my disbelief that this chunky marshmallow looking mfer looked at himself in a mirror and said "yes, I am a tadpole"). Make it clear that enemies have elemental weaknesses, give him a party heal, buff his magic, give him (and others) his own FP gauge, give some enemies (bosses) a physical counter to encourage using magical attacks... There's tons that could make Mallow not only viable, but integral to certain parts of the game, and that's without making the mistake of forcing him to be used.

 

[Peeton]

View attachment 281979Maaaaaaaan... I really hope all these hints and teases about a General Direct pan out so maybe for a day we can forget about how colossally ****ty everything else is. On that note, being a bonafide cheap ass, what would be a good way for me to record a reaction without nuking my bank account? A lot of people have requested a Geno reaction from me (if only for the epic cringe lolz XDDDDDD) so I should probably consider it now during the quiet before the storm.

There’s lots of ways! If you have an IPhone 6 or higher, you can screen record with your mic on. That way you get the video recorded and you can hear your voice! If you have a computer, you could either find a capture software or if you have an Nvidia graphics card you could use the built in capture software GeForce experience! You’d need to get a mic, but LITERALLT any mic would work! YOu could also just record offscreen footage from your phone or camera lol!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Out of curiosity, why does unrelated Square spirits indicate that the next DLC pass will be a Square character? I don't remember this happening with any of the other pass characters.

It's not a sure fire thing but it's pretty notable that there's only been three third parties that have had spirit events not only focused on them but with new spirits: Capcom, Arc Systems, and Square Enix. Square had two in the span of two months, raising a lot of eyebrows especially when paired with the upcoming Square Enix Amiibo rereleases and the multiple Square Enix sales this summer.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Out of curiosity, why does unrelated Square spirits indicate that the next DLC pass will be a Square character? I don't remember this happening with any of the other pass characters.

Third party spirit events weren’t a thing during most of the first pass. Resident Evil was the first one in December (I think). Since then Square’s had two spirit events which is suspicious. Why would they get two spirit events if they didn’t have another character coming?


They’ve been so weird with their content getting into Smash that I would imagine those spirit events could’ve been negotiated alongside their next character.

It sort of goes along with my theory on why Square would allow Nintendo to use Geno over a more relevant Square character. Nintendo gets Geno in Smash, but then they have to market more of Square’s titles. The Mana & Octopath spirit events could’ve been the beginning of that. Then maybe Bravely Default 2 will get a biiiiig push from Nintendo too.

 

[OffBi]

I replayed Undertale and SMRPG a while ago, when this happened

Is this normal?

 

[Vector Victor]

IF number 7 is coming in September, its possible they pull a Byleth and have a separate announcement outside of a Direct and then release them a week or so later. Imagine how we laughed at the idea that Min Min would come out at the end of June and then that was true? So let's assume they reveal 7 in September but its the 30th. We could be waiting until Sept 20th just for the announcement of a reveal.


Sooooo........hooray?

 

[*Verrix*]

I feel like if they include Mallow in the stage they could have him cry and then have it rain. Would be a nice throw back to the game.

 

[CopperKoopa]

I'm surprised how many of you don't like the idea of Mallow being a part of Geno's moveset! For a long time I never thought about him being included, but the other day it just clicked and I think it is the most Sakurai thing he could do. We got four different versions of Hero + Slime, Joker has a Morgana taunt, the other DLC characters have a ton of stage cameos... I would 100% put money down, right now, that Mallow will be a part of Geno's moveset or stage. He's not coming as an assist or his own character. It is the most Sakurai thing to do. And I will stand by that until I'm proven wrong when Geno is released

I also am starting to really think Geno's stage is going to be Bowser's Castle or something like that. Everybody and their mother assumes it's going to be the Forest Maze because that is iconic for Geno, but so far the DLC characters have represented their games more so than just themselves. Are you following me here? Bowser's Castle is one of the more if not most iconic places from Mario RPG. It's where the game begins, it's where the story get started, it's where you have to go to confront the final bad guy, there's the famous scene at the beginning of the game of Mario fighting Bowser on the chandeliers... It all just seems too perfect to pass up, especially when there currently isn't a Bowser's Castle stage unless you count that one transformation of the Paper Mario stage that you can't access without sitting through every other transformation (sidebar: why are we still not able to select specific stage transformations, considering they're available individually in spirit mode?).

A Bowser's Castle level complete with lava, the gray bricks, lava bubbles, fire bars, and the signature chandeliers from Mario RPG? There could even be an additional gimmick where Exor splits the stage in half. All of that just sounds too awesome an idea and it would fit all of the various Mario music tracks (including the Mario RPG music) the characters, and the series at large I think far better than whatever the Forest Maze stage would entail. And you could easily squeeze in cameos to that level just as much as you could any other location from that game. And for what it's worth, two of the DLC characters came with stages that are not directly related to them: Terry has a KOF stage loaded with SNK cameos even though he originated from Fatal Fury, and Min Min came with Spring Man's stage, not her own. You also have the fact that Joker's stage transforms to match Persona 3 or 4 based on the music. I think that my case is pretty supported by what we've gotten so far.

Maybe I'm being super controversial for this thread, which I'm starting to realize, but I again very strongly feel that for Geno and Mario RPG to be completely and well represented you need Mallow as part of Geno's moveset and you need a Bowser's Castle level.

 

[Elmorethemagician]

I feel like if they include Mallow in the stage they could have him cry and then have it rain. Would be a nice throw back to the game.

That would be a really cute. lol

 

[Blankiturayman]

I'd be cool with Mallow in the Final Smash, maybe taunts and victory screens as well because they'd be nice nods but other than that I think it'd feel like too much. Geno has more than enough to fuel a moveset himself.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've had a lot of people ask me this so I figured I'd go ahead and answer here:

"Where do your contacts stand on your predictions?"

Surprisingly, there's not a ton of crossover because I believe at looking at the evidence as whole and drawing my own conclusions instead of totally taking other people's word for it. That said, of my four main contacts:

Waluigi

Have heard: all
Think is likely: none

Geno

Have heard: all
Think is likely: one

Crash

Have heard: two
Think is likely: all

Lloyd

Have heard: none
Think is likely: none

Dante

Have heard: two
Think is likely: three

Master Chief

Have heard: one
Think is likely: one

And just for the record, only one of my contacts entertains the concept of bonus characters and the character they entertain is Lolo.

Another question I'm regularly asked is why I often pair Geno and Waluigi:

-Both Mario characters

-Both upgrades

-Both heard in insider circles since 2018

-Characters from the same franchise have a tendency to be revealed together (Charizard/Greninja, Robin/Lucina, Dark Pit/Palutena, Simon/Richter)

-My theorycraft from last year was that 6 and 7 would be shown either together or in close proximity because of the info that was out there. My theorycraft was that Waluigi would be 6 until ARMS happened. Despite this happening, the evidence for Waluigi hasn't disappeared and there's nothing currently out there to suggest he's leakbait. I still think he's coming but pinning down the timing and nature of it has been a colossal pain in the ass. Getting both him and Geno for the 35th anniversary of Super Mario seems a bit on the nose but I'm willing to entertain it until outright proven false.

 

[Enigma735]

I guess I understand the Mallow love - I mean, he's part of the game and has been ignored as well, but like... I don't have anything nice to say about Mallow. He's not presented as... likeable. Comes out of the gate weak and remains weak for the entire game, with extremely limited areas of usefulness here and there based purely on elemental weakness to electric attacks that it takes a strategy guide to even know exist, but even then, when you have Bowser ****ting damage on every enemy he touches, Peach healing the entire party, Mario forced to be part of the party (and isn't a slouch himself) and Geno doing the same as Bowser except looking cool while doing it, Mallow just sticks out like a sore thumb. He's a crybaby and is also as dumb as a sack of rocks, and the only stand-out thing about him is that he actually has character development in a game that is otherwise devoid of it, but ultimately, the story could have left his ass in Nimbus Land after beating Valentina and the player wouldn't feel necessarily robbed.

Geno coming to Smash as a playable character is the first priority, so even if his moveset involved Mallow, even if he and Mallow were the SMRPG Climbers, it's whatever. ****ty decision? Yes, extremely. Won't change my mind about playing him, but I would be thoroughly disappointed that my decade and a half long wait was to have my least favorite Mario RPG character attached to my favorite at the hip for nothing more than some misguided sense of representing both of Square's party members.

What I want more for Mallow is an SMRPG remake that makes him useful and maybe less of a moron (even at age 6 I could not suspend my disbelief that this chunky marshmallow looking mfer looked at himself in a mirror and said "yes, I am a tadpole"). Make it clear that enemies have elemental weaknesses, give him a party heal, buff his magic, give him (and others) his own FP gauge, give some enemies (bosses) a physical counter to encourage using magical attacks... There's tons that could make Mallow not only viable, but integral to certain parts of the game, and that's without making the mistake of forcing him to be used.

This. I personally don't mind Mallow, but he is just so not important to the story. The only real story Mallow has is getting back Frogfucius's stolen frog coins, Mallow has no connection to the overall story besides just being their. And like you said, Mallow is so extremely weak all throughout and he never gets stronger over time. Mallow is the one character I never use. My party is usually always Mario, Geno, and sometimes I switch between Bowser and Peach because I personally feel those two characters have their ups and downs.

That is exactly why Geno has more push to get included in Smash. Besides having a cool and bada** design, he is essentially the secondary protagonist of SMRPG, and has more moves to work with.

 

[CopperKoopa]

I'd be cool with Mallow in the Final Smash, maybe taunts and victory screens as well because they'd be nice nods but other than that I think it'd feel like too much. Geno has more than enough to fuel a moveset himself.

I get the love, I really do. I was with you. But I'm really really thinking they're going to try to slap as much Mario RPG representation onto that character as possible, so don't be surprised if Mallow pops up

Fatmanonice interesting that your sources do not think Waluigi or Geno are likely. They've been hearing the names but don't think they're going to get in? It seems the opposite of all the other rumors we've heard for a while, why would they even be pushing a narrative that they are teasing him if they don't think he's coming? I know your insiders are not all the insiders but it's just a thought

 

[Shado-will]

The problem with having Geno and Mallow like the Ice Climbers is that you'd have two characters with completely different movesets. The Ice Climbers make it work because you're quite literally controlling two of the same character and their moves are able to be boosted when together because of that. It'd be incredibly awkward to be controlling Geno and Mallow at the same time because Mallow doesn't shoot bullets out of you arms and Geno doesn't hit things with sticks and cymbals or have the elemental coverage that Mallow does. They'd be doing completely different things with different frame data and hitboxes where only one of them would actually be hitting their opponent most of the time.

That being said, I would love to have Mallow and Geno as a Pokemon Trainer or a Zelda/Sheik sort of thing where they switch out with their down special.

 

[CopperKoopa]

The problem with having Geno and Mallow like the Ice Climbers is that you'd have two characters with completely different movesets. The Ice Climbers make it work because you're quite literally controlling two of the same character and their moves are able to be boosted when together because of that. It'd be incredibly awkward to be controlling Geno and Mallow at the same time because Mallow doesn't shoot bullets out of you arms and Geno doesn't hit things with sticks and cymbals or have the elemental coverage that Mallow does. They'd be doing completely different things with different frame data and hitboxes where only one of them would actually be hitting their opponent most of the time.

That being said, I would love to have Mallow and Geno as a Pokemon Trainer or a Zelda/Sheik sort of thing where they switch out with their down special.

Well, I agree that would be dumb. I'm just saying that Mallow being "summoned" like Morgana or Slime for specific attacks and animations is a very real possibility.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

Here's how I'd incorporate Mallow:

Side-Taunt: Mallow comes out and cries. Geno pats him on the shoulder to console him. Mallow + Geno smile, and Mallow disappears.
Down Throw: Geno throws the enemy down. Mallow jumps out from behind Geno, and pummels the enemy with Star Rain.
Victory Screen: Mallow + Geno Victory Dance!!!

And any more than that I feel would be too much.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Mallow as a down-special or up-special would be fine, but would kinda suck imo (tho could be cooler as an up-special if the cannon and Boost don’t fit, idk I think they’re cool too).

Geno has enough to make his own moveset, and Mallow taking a spot that could’ve been another one of Geno’s moves would be kinda disappointing, even with it being cool to see Mallow too, but since you’re playing as Geno and not him, I feel he’d be best in taunts, aiding Geno in a final smash cutscene, and appearing in victory screens. A throw and maybe Geno’s pummel (both pummeling the opponent) could work too.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly I always thought Mallow and Geno both complimented each other's status and represented the great duality of the two company collaboration in Super Mario RPG.

Mallow is the goofier, more wacky Nintendo half of the equation. He's one of the most prominent characters that feels like he could have come from a Mario game, especially from the time period. I don't think its a coincidence that he's the first partner in game, because for a lot of new Mario fans playing their first RPG, he's a comfortable character in that sense, a silly looking cloud kid prone to clumsiness and a good cry here and there. And yet the use of elemental magic, his status as an adopted child, and his eventual reclaiming of his status as Prince is very JRPG like, the kind of attributes you could see in an FF protagonist. He's a cartoonish figure, but one with depth.

Geno of course is the other half who's entire nature feels much heavier than any Mario character had been up that point. A spirit entity with star magic, sent from the heavens above to restore the seven stars and once again give the world a chance to make their wishes come true. Its not hard to imagine numerous Square games having that kind of backstory. And yet he is still in the status of child's doll, using toy weapons (including a rocket punch to the face), and who's first act after coming to life is bumping his head into the stairs. He's a stoic and more serious character than the others, but there's some Mario lightheartedness that does slip into his characterization.

That's why both work and I'm glad both are in Mario RPG, because the two have some of the most effective elements from Nintendo and Square.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I get the love, I really do. I was with you. But I'm really really thinking they're going to try to slap as much Mario RPG representation onto that character as possible, so don't be surprised if Mallow pops up

Fatmanonice interesting that your sources do not think Waluigi or Geno are likely. They've been hearing the names but don't think they're going to get in? It seems the opposite of all the other rumors we've heard for a while, why would they even be pushing a narrative that they are teasing him if they don't think he's coming? I know your insiders are not all the insiders but it's just a thought

Insiders are people too and they come with their own bias. "I don't believe this because I don't like/want this" is behavior that I've come to find insiders aren't above. It's like the running joke in the Smash community that leakbait is just a thinnly veiled euphemism for "I don't like this" and trying to put a pseudo intellectual spin on it. It's my opinion that this is the most applicable to Waluigi and Geno. It just reminds me how Hitagi and Xenother were like "Banjo's not coming; cope and seethe" in 2018 and, lo and behold, it still happened or how Verge was in Steve's corner until the public evidence for Banjo was so overwhelmingly that disagreeing with it was basically credibility suicide. Insiders are people too and sometimes they get things wrong or flat out ignore/dismiss things because of their own personal bias (I've done this too as I've shown with 5). Obviously, not the worst of crimes and there's nothing wrong with being wrong but in my own experience a lot of these guys are deathly afraid of being wrong.

 

[Trevenant]

Have Mallow on Geno's shoulders to function like how DK and DK were apparently supposed to work in Brawl. We get a completely original concept and it's one that makes complete sense. And just have Geno hold Exor too. His range is literally that of a walk off stage like Gaur Plain with the width of a couple Bowsers to make the people who want more anime swordsman. Geno will also be in his star form too. He will have ARMS like Min Min to be able to carry it extending his range further making him the first character to be able to SD by throwing out a disjointed gothic past the blastzone while remaining stationary.

I'm afraid I can't illustrate the abomination I have in my head as I am utter bs at drawing stars as they always end up looking like an impossibly malnourished hand and I couldn't find a sprite for the star form but if someone does I'll try.

 

[waterhasataste]

I've had a lot of people ask me this so I figured I'd go ahead and answer here:

"Where do your contacts stand on your predictions?"

Surprisingly, there's not a ton of crossover because I believe at looking at the evidence as whole and drawing my own conclusions instead of totally taking other people's word for it. That said, of my four main contacts:

Waluigi

Have heard: all
Think is likely: none

Geno

Have heard: all
Think is likely: one

Crash

Have heard: two
Think is likely: all

Lloyd

Have heard: none
Think is likely: none

Dante

Have heard: two
Think is likely: three

Master Chief

Have heard: one
Think is likely: one

And just for the record, only one of my contacts entertains the concept of bonus characters and the character they entertain is Lolo.

Another question I'm regularly asked is why I often pair Geno and Waluigi:

-Both Mario characters

-Both upgrades

-Both heard in insider circles since 2018

-Characters from the same franchise have a tendency to be revealed together (Charizard/Greninja, Robin/Lucina, Dark Pit/Palutena, Simon/Richter)

-My theorycraft from last year was that 6 and 7 would be shown either together or in close proximity because of the info that was out there. My theorycraft was that Waluigi would be 6 until ARMS happened. Despite this happening, the evidence for Waluigi hasn't disappeared and there's nothing currently out there to suggest he's leakbait. I still think he's coming but pinning down the timing and nature of it has been a colossal pain in the ass. Getting both him and Geno for the 35th anniversary of Super Mario seems a bit on the nose but I'm willing to entertain it until outright proven false.

Do these characters also have a ton of stuff pointing to them? Im aware of the Geno stuff, but I'm curious if the other choices you're predicting have similar things happening with them like they are for Geno

 

[Firox]

I replayed Undertale and SMRPG a while ago, when this happened
View attachment 282029
View attachment 282030
Is this normal?

Totally. I had something similar happen to me when I was playing Grand Theft Auto V.

 

[CopperKoopa]

Have Mallow on Geno's shoulders to function like how DK and DK were apparently supposed to work in Brawl. We get a completely original concept and it's one that makes complete sense. And just have Geno hold Exor too. His range is literally that of a walk off stage like Gaur Plain with the width of a couple Bowsers to make the people who want more anime swordsman. Geno will also be in his star form too. He will have ARMS like Min Min to be able to carry it extending his range further making him the first character to be able to SD by throwing out a disjointed gothic past the blastzone while remaining stationary.

I'm afraid I can't illustrate the abomination I have in my head as I am utter bs at drawing stars as they always end up looking like an impossibly malnourished hand and I couldn't find a sprite for the star form but if someone does I'll try.

Insiders are people too and they come with their own bias. "I don't believe this because I don't like/want this" is behavior that I've come to find insiders aren't above. It's like the running joke in the Smash community that leakbait is just a thinnly veiled euphemism for "I don't like this" and trying to put a pseudo intellectual spin on it. It's my opinion that this is the most applicable to Waluigi and Geno. It just reminds me how Hitagi and Xenother were like "Banjo's not coming; cope and seethe" in 2018 and, lo and behold, it still happened or how Verge was in Steve's corner until the public evidence for Banjo was so overwhelmingly that disagreeing with it was basically credibility suicide. Insiders are people too and sometimes they get things wrong or flat out ignore/dismiss things because of their own personal bias (I've done this too as I've shown with 5). Obviously, not the worst of crimes and there's nothing wrong with being wrong but in my own experience a lot of these guys are deathly afraid of being wrong.

Yeah, I could see that. It is rare for the general public, insiders included, to be for characters like Geno. off the top of my head, besides the obvious papagenos , you really only have Rogersbase, a couple of the GameXplain guys, and like maybe some super fringe folks? If the "normies" and most insiders had a say, the roster would be chock-a-block full of Master Chiefs, Crash Bandicoots, Dantes, Lara Crofts, and Soras. And, weirdly enough, half of those characters are highly speculated right now. I wonder why

 

[Musubi]

The problem I have with most fan movesets for Geno is that people always want Timed Hit mechanics in his smash and tilt attacks. These attacks usually have pretty short animations, so there isn't much room for a timed hit input. If they put in timed hits on those moves, it would probably just result in the player button mashing everytime they try for a tilt or smash attack, and with Smash's buffer system to read inputs, it could cause other moves to come out unintentionally and make Geno feel clunky to play.

We already have examples of Timed Hits in Smash with Wii Fit Trainer's Deep Breathing down special and Incineroar's Clothesline side special, and these moves have very long animations. I could only see Timed Hits working into Geno's moveset in Geno Whirl and Geno Boost. Geno Boosts could work if it raises Geno's stats similar to Deep Breathing. Let's say Geno Boost was the down special. Pressing down B could play a 2-3 second animation and it wouldn't need to be held. If the player presses down B again at the right time at the end of the animation, Geno would get a more substantial boost in stats or something. Geno Whirl would just be like how most people have it in their fan movesets.

And one last thing. In SMRPG, Geno's timed hit window was the moment before his ammunition fired from his arms. If you put the timed hit window of a smash attack or tilt attack to be the moment the move hits the opponent, it wouldn't act like his timed hits in SMRPG at all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Do these characters also have a ton of stuff pointing to them? Im aware of the Geno stuff, but I'm curious if the other choices you're predicting have similar things happening with them like they are for Geno

They do and Geno's probably the only one where the evidence has been painstakingly documented and most of it is public. Polarthief 's "the List™" is pretty much all the public stuff and it's a mile long. I did the big long essay for Geno because of my personal attachment to the character but I have a hard time motivating myself to do any of the others. Meh on Chief, Crash is pointless because most people want him anyways, I don't like Dante, and people get bizarrely hostile when it comes to Waluigi (I WANT ISAAC/SKULL KID!!!! REEEEEEEE!!!!) and Lloyd (NO MOAR ANIME SWORDSMEN!!!! REEEEEE!!!) so it's not worth it in my eyes. Sometimes I let out bits and pieces that people could put together if people cared enough about those individual characters but focusing enough to write the Geno essay with my ADHD took a solid month and most people blew it off anyways so it's like "what's the point for the others?"

 

[MattX20]

They do and Geno's probably the only one where the evidence has been painstakingly documented and most of it is public. Polarthief 's "the List™" is pretty much all the public stuff and it's a mile long. I did the big long essay for Geno because of my personal attachment to the character but I have a hard time motivating myself to do any of the others. Meh on Chief, Crash is pointless because most people want him anyways, I don't like Dante, and people get bizarrely hostile when it comes to Waluigi (I WANT ISAAC/SKULL KID!!!! REEEEEEEE!!!!) and Lloyd (NO MOAR ANIME SWORDSMEN!!!! REEEEEE!!!) so it's not worth it in my eyes. Sometimes I let out bits and pieces that people could put together if people cared enough about those individual characters but focusing enough to write the Geno essay with my ADHD took a solid month and most people blew it off anyways so it's like "what's the point for the others?"

I'm just hoping we get the supposed direct before this month ends. The identity of FP7 is driving speculation bonkers

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'm surprised how many of you don't like the idea of Mallow being a part of Geno's moveset! For a long time I never thought about him being included, but the other day it just clicked and I think it is the most Sakurai thing he could do. We got four different versions of Hero + Slime, Joker has a Morgana taunt, the other DLC characters have a ton of stage cameos... I would 100% put money down, right now, that Mallow will be a part of Geno's moveset or stage. He's not coming as an assist or his own character. It is the most Sakurai thing to do. And I will stand by that until I'm proven wrong when Geno is released

I also am starting to really think Geno's stage is going to be Bowser's Castle or something like that. Everybody and their mother assumes it's going to be the Forest Maze because that is iconic for Geno, but so far the DLC characters have represented their games more so than just themselves. Are you following me here? Bowser's Castle is one of the more if not most iconic places from Mario RPG. It's where the game begins, it's where the story get started, it's where you have to go to confront the final bad guy, there's the famous scene at the beginning of the game of Mario fighting Bowser on the chandeliers... It all just seems too perfect to pass up, especially when there currently isn't a Bowser's Castle stage unless you count that one transformation of the Paper Mario stage that you can't access without sitting through every other transformation (sidebar: why are we still not able to select specific stage transformations, considering they're available individually in spirit mode?).

A Bowser's Castle level complete with lava, the gray bricks, lava bubbles, fire bars, and the signature chandeliers from Mario RPG? There could even be an additional gimmick where Exor splits the stage in half. All of that just sounds too awesome an idea and it would fit all of the various Mario music tracks (including the Mario RPG music) the characters, and the series at large I think far better than whatever the Forest Maze stage would entail. And you could easily squeeze in cameos to that level just as much as you could any other location from that game. And for what it's worth, two of the DLC characters came with stages that are not directly related to them: Terry has a KOF stage loaded with SNK cameos even though he originated from Fatal Fury, and Min Min came with Spring Man's stage, not her own. You also have the fact that Joker's stage transforms to match Persona 3 or 4 based on the music. I think that my case is pretty supported by what we've gotten so far.

Maybe I'm being super controversial for this thread, which I'm starting to realize, but I again very strongly feel that for Geno and Mario RPG to be completely and well represented you need Mallow as part of Geno's moveset and you need a Bowser's Castle level.

I think both options would be great. They’d also fill out weird holes in the stage roster. Somehow there’s no forested area stages so Forest Maze would fill in that hole.

A Bowser’s Castle stage would finally give the biggest villain in gaming a home stage. I didn’t realize this until recently but it’s bizarre that we’ve gone 21 years without a stage dedicated to freaking Bowser.