Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

(Banjo and Kazooie are 50/50 for me , they have a good shot because they would represent Microsoft)

OBJECTION! They would represent the N64.

 

[GillyGrime]

I can’t see Geno as likely in the 4 remaining Fighter Pass slots, but as eventual DLC? I think he’s got a strong chance honestly.

I’m not sure if I’m grateful Geno escaped the AT massacres because on one hand, it means he can still likely appear, but on the other, if he never makes it as DLC, he’ll be physically absent (Mii costumes and spirits be damned).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

OBJECTION! They would represent the N64.

OBJECTION.

NO.

That is all.

Ya'll can try to make them Nintendo all you like. They were never Nintendo.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

OBJECTION.

NO.

That is all.

Ya'll can try to make them Nintendo all you like. They were never Nintendo.

Well I guess Diddy Kong and King K. Rool were never Nintendo either. The same people that made the DKC cast Rare made Banjo & Kazooie so they are just as much Nintendo as the DKC cast.

 

[ForsakenM]

Okay, so first off happy late b-day Ovaltine ! Turns out we are the same age until June, man how similar are we? o.o

I also lost like two posts I was going to make over time so I'll just leave them be as I'm kinda over trying to debate with people who value the vague philosophical of 'good and bad' or 'right and wrong' over being more based in the reality we currently know we live in and using the scales we have set for ourselves to guide us, considering you can't really debate about the necessity of having concrete levels of being able to judge something when someone avidly believes 'eVeRyThInG iS sUbJeCtIvE!'

Now what I'm really here for is to kill this huge wave of pessimism that has suddenly come our way yet again from our lovely duck lesbian.

First, off, to shout it out for those in the back...GENO'S CHANCES HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER!

I'm not even about to go over everything that is in his favor since we've done it like a thousand times but I'm sure any regulars will know that there are a crazy amount of things that have crept up in recent years that hint at Geno and show he is not only in the public eye, but in the private eye...and by that I mean Nintendo and Square know how much we want him.

Now, to address that pink elephant parade in the room: leakers. First off, and I stress this YET AGAIN, a leaker should never be used in an argument for or against a character. Why? Because most 'leakers' have no actual evidence of their claims. They SAY their 'source' told them something, but how many fake leaks have we seen that claim this? They claim to be in the know but offer nothing to prove it, either because it puts a contact or themselves on jeopardy or they actually have nothing, but either way there is no evidence and thus what a leaker says has no credibility even IF they have been right and known stuff in the past. The only thing you can say is 'Well, they were right before' which is basically just saying 'This person was right once or twice before, so I now believe them on everything regardless of what it is' and trust me, you cannot apply that kind of thinking here.

Now when you add in that most of the big-name leakers like Vergeben, Hitagi, Xenother, Leakypanda are pretty much out of the race in terms of credibility period. So note that if you are trying to state an argument for a character and are using what a leaker has said to back it up, regardless if it's for or against the character, it's not only weak to begin with but if it has one of the above names it holds no weight at all.

Now let's move onto what is the biggest news people are talking about for Erdrick: Tansut's recent post. I have the whole post in quotes in this spoiler.

Spoiler: Tansut's Post

"Oh hey I got a notification I was tagged! I might as well try to clear up as much as I can real quick to help avoid any confusion....

I found out about Cloud in September of that year. I was only told about him with the assurance I wouldn't leak it ahead of time. Trust me, I WISH I could have spilled the beans, but aside from respecting this person's wishes I also respected the fact that it would have spoiled a pretty amazing direct and in the end it was totally worth it. That thread was nuts.

I only started dabbling in being someone that talks like they know something when some leaks were going around a few days before the direct he was to be revealed in. Basically I responded to a few posts debunking some Smash leaks because they didn't have Cloud on them. I said something to the effect that nobody would believe me if I revealed what I knew anyway, but I felt like I ought to debunk what I could at the time regardless.

Then the day of the direct happens and since that thread was going at a ridiculous clip I decided to do a leak of Cloud in the guise of a Star Wars prediction (Luke the blonde protagonist with Cloud City as the stage). It wouldn't make any sense or give anything away before hand, but a couple people picked up on it after the fact.

After that I found out when he would be released, so I leaked that as a weather forecast saying it would be cloudy on that date. I was technically off on that, but only because I was told the Japan time release date and didn't realize it at the time.

Fast forward to Ultimate hype. In early-ish fall (I think) I heard about a leak that a certain company (you can fill in the dots here) was not happy about, and assumed it was an image leak. To this day I'm not sure if it was a Smash leak or maybe a Final Fantasy leak that caused some internal memos to be sent... just that they weren't happy about something that got out. The only other thing I ever found out beforehand was that the Grinch leak was most likely a fake, which I shared because I hated seeing people get hyped for something I was pretty sure wasn't going to go the way they hoped. I did not want to be right about that, for what it's worth.

This past December I got confirmation about Erdrick, or that at least that it's a DQ character as one of the DLC characters. I was never corrected when I used Erdrick as the name when talking to them, so I don't see a reason to assume it's someone else like Luminary. I got the feeling that I only found out then because they were, at that point, still in a very early state. I was told to not expect anything like a reveal soon, so I wasn't totally shocked he wasn't at the last direct, especially since Joker was still barely shown and he's farther along.

When is he coming? Honestly I dunno. Any date or timeframe I give is pure speculation, and I try to leave that out as much as possible since it just muddies the water.

So that's all I got. Well, other than apparently Cloud was a pricey fella to get into Smash.

Let me know if anything still is confusing!"

Okay, so at first glance to the average joe, this seems to cement that Erdrick is in the game so we should accept him. Let me inform you on why this means nothing.

First off, once again, Tansut is a leaker. As I stated before, this means that he has no actual evidence to give us that proves what he says. He says he has a source and that this source told him about Cloud in September and that he kept it to himself mostly until the day of the Cloud reveal so as to not ruin the surprise for us. What a nice guy...but has he done anything to prove this? Maybe a recorded audio log of his source telling him this? Maybe an image of Cloud from the trailer or in development? Nope, nothing: we just have to take is word on it.

Next, he admits being wrong about the release date. Sure, he comes up with an excuse, but the fact is HE WAS WRONG and we need to keep that in mind that, even if it was a small misstep, Tansut can relay incorrect information.

Next, he states that Square was unhappy with an image leak that apparently never made it public. Hmm, now isn't that a bit convenient? If the image never went public, then he never has to show proof that this leak existed in the first place. Where is the image? Who sent it out? We will never know, so we just have to take his word that it ever even happened. I think you may be seeing the pattern by now.

Moving on, now we get to the Erdrick stuff. He says that he heard about it in December and that it was a DQ character but whenever he said Erdrick his source never said anything like 'No, it's not Erdrick, it's Luminary/Slime/Eight', leading him to believe that he was correct that it was Erdrick. He has literally no other info to give us and not evidence to provide any validity to this statement other than, you guessed it, taking his word or it. It's interesting that he heard about DQ in Smash after Sakurai said the DLC was finalized while other leakers have stated that he was in development since July and we had that Seven Square Reps list for a while, so it's funny how no one can support any consistency when it comes to the character other than 'He's in, trust based on nothing.'He also mentions Cloud cost Nintendo a pretty penny but that's kinda an obvious thing and holds no bearing over future negotiations.

So, here is a list of the issues with this:

1. Leakers rarely have and substantial credibility and often rely on you just taking their word for it.
2. Leaker have been shown to be wrong even if they were right in the past.
3. Sources have been shown to either purposely or accidentally give out incorrect information to their leakers
4. Square is known for being master jebaiters when it comes to preventing information from being leaked.
5. Japan does not call the protagonist of DQ3 Erdrick or Loto: he is Yuusha, which mean Hero and more loosely Brave. Not only do multiple characters in DQ have the title of Hero, but

Spoiler: DQXI spoilers

Erdrick is now a title in itself given to Luminary, meaning that when Tansut kept saying Erdrick it could easily refer to Luminary or another Dragon Quest protag.

Also keep in mind that just because his source didn't tell him he was incorrect doesn't mean he was correct: There is such a thing as not telling the whole story and giving the entire picture, and this could easily be the case here.
6. The only things Erdrick has going for him are being mentioned by leakers, and we've established why they aren't credible already. Everything else brought up in his favor is outweighed by his lack of appeal and awareness as well as his lack of support and requests and recorded statements from Sakurai counting against him not to mention the possible issues with negotiation.

Seriously, if you think Erdrick is a lock, you need to wake up. If you think his chances are high, read this and re-evaluate the situation. I'm not saying you have to change your mind, I'm just asking you to use logic and critical thinking.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Okay, so first off happy late b-day Ovaltine ! Turns out we are the same age until June, man how similar are we? o.o

I also lost like two posts I was going to make over time so I'll just leave them be as I'm kinda over trying to debate with people who value the vague philosophical of 'good and bad' or 'right and wrong' over being more based in the reality we currently know we live in and using the scales we have set for ourselves to guide us, considering you can't really debate about the necessity of having concrete levels of being able to judge something when someone avidly believes 'eVeRyThInG iS sUbJeCtIvE!'

Now what I'm really here for is to kill this huge wave of pessimism that has suddenly come our way yet again from our lovely duck lesbian.

First, off, to shout it out for those in the back...GENO'S CHANCES HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER!

I'm not even about to go over everything that is in his favor since we've done it like a thousand times but I'm sure any regulars will know that there are a crazy amount of things that have crept up in recent years that hint at Geno and show he is not only in the public eye, but in the private eye...and by that I mean Nintendo and Square know how much we want him.

Now, to address that pink elephant parade in the room: leakers. First off, and I stress this YET AGAIN, a leaker should never be used in an argument for or against a character. Why? Because most 'leakers' have no actual evidence of their claims. They SAY their 'source' told them something, but how many fake leaks have we seen that claim this? They claim to be in the know but offer nothing to prove it, either because it puts a contact or themselves on jeopardy or they actually have nothing, but either way there is no evidence and thus what a leaker says has no credibility even IF they have been right and known stuff in the past. The only thing you can say is 'Well, they were right before' which is basically just saying 'This person was right once or twice before, so I now believe them on everything regardless of what it is' and trust me, you cannot apply that kind of thinking here.

Now when you add in that most of the big-name leakers like Vergeben, Hitagi, Xenother, Leakypanda are pretty much out of the race in terms of credibility period. So note that if you are trying to state an argument for a character and are using what a leaker has said to back it up, regardless if it's for or against the character, it's not only weak to begin with but if it has one of the above names it holds no weight at all.

Now let's move onto what is the biggest news people are talking about for Erdrick: Tansut's recent post. I have the whole post in quotes in this spoiler.

Spoiler: Tansut's Post

"Oh hey I got a notification I was tagged! I might as well try to clear up as much as I can real quick to help avoid any confusion....

I found out about Cloud in September of that year. I was only told about him with the assurance I wouldn't leak it ahead of time. Trust me, I WISH I could have spilled the beans, but aside from respecting this person's wishes I also respected the fact that it would have spoiled a pretty amazing direct and in the end it was totally worth it. That thread was nuts.

I only started dabbling in being someone that talks like they know something when some leaks were going around a few days before the direct he was to be revealed in. Basically I responded to a few posts debunking some Smash leaks because they didn't have Cloud on them. I said something to the effect that nobody would believe me if I revealed what I knew anyway, but I felt like I ought to debunk what I could at the time regardless.

Then the day of the direct happens and since that thread was going at a ridiculous clip I decided to do a leak of Cloud in the guise of a Star Wars prediction (Luke the blonde protagonist with Cloud City as the stage). It wouldn't make any sense or give anything away before hand, but a couple people picked up on it after the fact.

After that I found out when he would be released, so I leaked that as a weather forecast saying it would be cloudy on that date. I was technically off on that, but only because I was told the Japan time release date and didn't realize it at the time.

Fast forward to Ultimate hype. In early-ish fall (I think) I heard about a leak that a certain company (you can fill in the dots here) was not happy about, and assumed it was an image leak. To this day I'm not sure if it was a Smash leak or maybe a Final Fantasy leak that caused some internal memos to be sent... just that they weren't happy about something that got out. The only other thing I ever found out beforehand was that the Grinch leak was most likely a fake, which I shared because I hated seeing people get hyped for something I was pretty sure wasn't going to go the way they hoped. I did not want to be right about that, for what it's worth.

This past December I got confirmation about Erdrick, or that at least that it's a DQ character as one of the DLC characters. I was never corrected when I used Erdrick as the name when talking to them, so I don't see a reason to assume it's someone else like Luminary. I got the feeling that I only found out then because they were, at that point, still in a very early state. I was told to not expect anything like a reveal soon, so I wasn't totally shocked he wasn't at the last direct, especially since Joker was still barely shown and he's farther along.

When is he coming? Honestly I dunno. Any date or timeframe I give is pure speculation, and I try to leave that out as much as possible since it just muddies the water.

So that's all I got. Well, other than apparently Cloud was a pricey fella to get into Smash.

Let me know if anything still is confusing!"

Okay, so at first glance to the average joe, this seems to cement that Erdrick is in the game so we should accept him. Let me inform you on why this means nothing.

First off, once again, Tansut is a leaker. As I stated before, this means that he has no actual evidence to give us that proves what he says. He says he has a source and that this source told him about Cloud in September and that he kept it to himself mostly until the day of the Cloud reveal so as to not ruin the surprise for us. What a nice guy...but has he done anything to prove this? Maybe a recorded audio log of his source telling him this? Maybe an image of Cloud from the trailer or in development? Nope, nothing: we just have to take is word on it.

Next, he admits being wrong about the release date. Sure, he comes up with an excuse, but the fact is HE WAS WRONG and we need to keep that in mind that, even if it was a small misstep, Tansut can relay incorrect information.

Next, he states that Square was unhappy with an image leak that apparently never made it public. Hmm, now isn't that a bit convenient? If the image never went public, then he never has to show proof that this leak existed in the first place. Where is the image? Who sent it out? We will never know, so we just have to take his word that it ever even happened. I think you may be seeing the pattern by now.

Moving on, now we get to the Erdrick stuff. He says that he heard about it in December and that it was a DQ character but whenever he said Erdrick his source never said anything like 'No, it's not Erdrick, it's Luminary/Slime/Eight', leading him to believe that he was correct that it was Erdrick. He has literally no other info to give us and not evidence to provide any validity to this statement other than, you guessed it, taking his word or it. It's interesting that he heard about DQ in Smash after Sakurai said the DLC was finalized while other leakers have stated that he was in development since July and we had that Seven Square Reps list for a while, so it's funny how no one can support any consistency when it comes to the character other than 'He's in, trust based on nothing.'He also mentions Cloud cost Nintendo a pretty penny but that's kinda an obvious thing and holds no bearing over future negotiations.

So, here is a list of the issues with this:

1. Leakers rarely have and substantial credibility and often rely on you just taking their word for it.
2. Leaker have been shown to be wrong even if they were right in the past.
3. Sources have been shown to either purposely or accidentally give out incorrect information to their leakers
4. Square is known for being master jebaiters when it comes to preventing information from being leaked.
5. Japan does not call the protagonist of DQ3 Erdrick or Loto: he is Yuusha, which mean Hero and more loosely Brave. Not only do multiple characters in DQ have the title of Hero, but

Spoiler: DQXI spoilers

Erdrick is now a title in itself given to Luminary, meaning that when Tansut kept saying Erdrick it could easily refer to Luminary or another Dragon Quest protag.

Also keep in mind that just because his source didn't tell him he was incorrect doesn't mean he was correct: There is such a thing as not telling the whole story and giving the entire picture, and this could easily be the case here.
6. The only things Erdrick has going for him are being mentioned by leakers, and we've established why they aren't credible already. Everything else brought up in his favor is outweighed by his lack of appeal and awareness as well as his lack of support and requests and recorded statements from Sakurai counting against him not to mention the possible issues with negotiation.

Seriously, if you think Erdrick is a lock, you need to wake up. If you think his chances are high, read this and re-evaluate the situation. I'm not saying you have to change your mind, I'm just asking you to use logic and critical thinking.

So wait. He didn't want to spoil the surprise for Cloud, but is okay with spoiling the surprise here?

And he never did mention what that picture leak was of did he? Or maybe he did and I forgot. Edit: Reread the post. So he mentioned the leak without even knowing what it was? ...Um. Okay...? Tiny bit sketch in my opinion...

I'm kinda surprised forums don't ban insiders tbh when they seem to just cause chaos under the guise of letting people know things ahead of time when it doesn't even come to fruition half the time.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

People should be extra careful with Edrick, otherwise they will fall into the "Chrom Syndrome".

Back in the Smash 4 days, everyone thought that Chrom was bascially a lock, and the "Gematsu Leak" didn't helped matters. We all know how this story went, and while Chrom got his redemption in Ultimate via echoes, not everybody else is that lucky.

Poor Rhythm Heaven fans are toast, seeing how their series has apparently gotten niche enough for the West to not even get a physical release for the most recent game. Ultimate doesn't have much to compensate for that.

That said, history does seem poised to repeat itself. I'm personally doubtful of Edd's chances myself, though will somewhat expect him on reveal day in case people are right, I guess.

So wait. He didn't want to spoil the surprise for Cloud, but is okay with spoiling the surprise here?

And he never did mention what that picture leak was of did he? Or maybe he did and I forgot. Edit: Reread the post. So he mentioned the leak without even knowing what it was? ...Um. Okay...? Tiny bit sketch in my opinion...

Yeah, this is what gets me. It's like the Tansut of Smash 4 and the Tansut of Ultimate are two completely different people.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so first off happy late b-day Ovaltine ! Turns out we are the same age until June, man how similar are we? o.o

I also lost like two posts I was going to make over time so I'll just leave them be as I'm kinda over trying to debate with people who value the vague philosophical of 'good and bad' or 'right and wrong' over being more based in the reality we currently know we live in and using the scales we have set for ourselves to guide us, considering you can't really debate about the necessity of having concrete levels of being able to judge something when someone avidly believes 'eVeRyThInG iS sUbJeCtIvE!'

Now what I'm really here for is to kill this huge wave of pessimism that has suddenly come our way yet again from our lovely duck lesbian.

First, off, to shout it out for those in the back...GENO'S CHANCES HAVE NEVER BEEN HIGHER!

I'm not even about to go over everything that is in his favor since we've done it like a thousand times but I'm sure any regulars will know that there are a crazy amount of things that have crept up in recent years that hint at Geno and show he is not only in the public eye, but in the private eye...and by that I mean Nintendo and Square know how much we want him.

Now, to address that pink elephant parade in the room: leakers. First off, and I stress this YET AGAIN, a leaker should never be used in an argument for or against a character. Why? Because most 'leakers' have no actual evidence of their claims. They SAY their 'source' told them something, but how many fake leaks have we seen that claim this? They claim to be in the know but offer nothing to prove it, either because it puts a contact or themselves on jeopardy or they actually have nothing, but either way there is no evidence and thus what a leaker says has no credibility even IF they have been right and known stuff in the past. The only thing you can say is 'Well, they were right before' which is basically just saying 'This person was right once or twice before, so I now believe them on everything regardless of what it is' and trust me, you cannot apply that kind of thinking here.

Now when you add in that most of the big-name leakers like Vergeben, Hitagi, Xenother, Leakypanda are pretty much out of the race in terms of credibility period. So note that if you are trying to state an argument for a character and are using what a leaker has said to back it up, regardless if it's for or against the character, it's not only weak to begin with but if it has one of the above names it holds no weight at all.

Now let's move onto what is the biggest news people are talking about for Erdrick: Tansut's recent post. I have the whole post in quotes in this spoiler.

Spoiler: Tansut's Post

"Oh hey I got a notification I was tagged! I might as well try to clear up as much as I can real quick to help avoid any confusion....

I found out about Cloud in September of that year. I was only told about him with the assurance I wouldn't leak it ahead of time. Trust me, I WISH I could have spilled the beans, but aside from respecting this person's wishes I also respected the fact that it would have spoiled a pretty amazing direct and in the end it was totally worth it. That thread was nuts.

I only started dabbling in being someone that talks like they know something when some leaks were going around a few days before the direct he was to be revealed in. Basically I responded to a few posts debunking some Smash leaks because they didn't have Cloud on them. I said something to the effect that nobody would believe me if I revealed what I knew anyway, but I felt like I ought to debunk what I could at the time regardless.

Then the day of the direct happens and since that thread was going at a ridiculous clip I decided to do a leak of Cloud in the guise of a Star Wars prediction (Luke the blonde protagonist with Cloud City as the stage). It wouldn't make any sense or give anything away before hand, but a couple people picked up on it after the fact.

After that I found out when he would be released, so I leaked that as a weather forecast saying it would be cloudy on that date. I was technically off on that, but only because I was told the Japan time release date and didn't realize it at the time.

Fast forward to Ultimate hype. In early-ish fall (I think) I heard about a leak that a certain company (you can fill in the dots here) was not happy about, and assumed it was an image leak. To this day I'm not sure if it was a Smash leak or maybe a Final Fantasy leak that caused some internal memos to be sent... just that they weren't happy about something that got out. The only other thing I ever found out beforehand was that the Grinch leak was most likely a fake, which I shared because I hated seeing people get hyped for something I was pretty sure wasn't going to go the way they hoped. I did not want to be right about that, for what it's worth.

This past December I got confirmation about Erdrick, or that at least that it's a DQ character as one of the DLC characters. I was never corrected when I used Erdrick as the name when talking to them, so I don't see a reason to assume it's someone else like Luminary. I got the feeling that I only found out then because they were, at that point, still in a very early state. I was told to not expect anything like a reveal soon, so I wasn't totally shocked he wasn't at the last direct, especially since Joker was still barely shown and he's farther along.

When is he coming? Honestly I dunno. Any date or timeframe I give is pure speculation, and I try to leave that out as much as possible since it just muddies the water.

So that's all I got. Well, other than apparently Cloud was a pricey fella to get into Smash.

Let me know if anything still is confusing!"

Okay, so at first glance to the average joe, this seems to cement that Erdrick is in the game so we should accept him. Let me inform you on why this means nothing.

First off, once again, Tansut is a leaker. As I stated before, this means that he has no actual evidence to give us that proves what he says. He says he has a source and that this source told him about Cloud in September and that he kept it to himself mostly until the day of the Cloud reveal so as to not ruin the surprise for us. What a nice guy...but has he done anything to prove this? Maybe a recorded audio log of his source telling him this? Maybe an image of Cloud from the trailer or in development? Nope, nothing: we just have to take is word on it.

Next, he admits being wrong about the release date. Sure, he comes up with an excuse, but the fact is HE WAS WRONG and we need to keep that in mind that, even if it was a small misstep, Tansut can relay incorrect information.

Next, he states that Square was unhappy with an image leak that apparently never made it public. Hmm, now isn't that a bit convenient? If the image never went public, then he never has to show proof that this leak existed in the first place. Where is the image? Who sent it out? We will never know, so we just have to take his word that it ever even happened. I think you may be seeing the pattern by now.

Moving on, now we get to the Erdrick stuff. He says that he heard about it in December and that it was a DQ character but whenever he said Erdrick his source never said anything like 'No, it's not Erdrick, it's Luminary/Slime/Eight', leading him to believe that he was correct that it was Erdrick. He has literally no other info to give us and not evidence to provide any validity to this statement other than, you guessed it, taking his word or it. It's interesting that he heard about DQ in Smash after Sakurai said the DLC was finalized while other leakers have stated that he was in development since July and we had that Seven Square Reps list for a while, so it's funny how no one can support any consistency when it comes to the character other than 'He's in, trust based on nothing.'He also mentions Cloud cost Nintendo a pretty penny but that's kinda an obvious thing and holds no bearing over future negotiations.

So, here is a list of the issues with this:

1. Leakers rarely have and substantial credibility and often rely on you just taking their word for it.
2. Leaker have been shown to be wrong even if they were right in the past.
3. Sources have been shown to either purposely or accidentally give out incorrect information to their leakers
4. Square is known for being master jebaiters when it comes to preventing information from being leaked.
5. Japan does not call the protagonist of DQ3 Erdrick or Loto: he is Yuusha, which mean Hero and more loosely Brave. Not only do multiple characters in DQ have the title of Hero, but

Spoiler: DQXI spoilers

Erdrick is now a title in itself given to Luminary, meaning that when Tansut kept saying Erdrick it could easily refer to Luminary or another Dragon Quest protag.

Also keep in mind that just because his source didn't tell him he was incorrect doesn't mean he was correct: There is such a thing as not telling the whole story and giving the entire picture, and this could easily be the case here.
6. The only things Erdrick has going for him are being mentioned by leakers, and we've established why they aren't credible already. Everything else brought up in his favor is outweighed by his lack of appeal and awareness as well as his lack of support and requests and recorded statements from Sakurai counting against him not to mention the possible issues with negotiation.

Seriously, if you think Erdrick is a lock, you need to wake up. If you think his chances are high, read this and re-evaluate the situation. I'm not saying you have to change your mind, I'm just asking you to use logic and critical thinking.

So I've been making an Essay about Geno to replace my old one and may I say you bring up some good points here.

Last night after I heard about Tansut's comment I almost decided not to make it but you poked some holes in there and it makes me realize what he says isn't a fact, Leakers and Insiders haven't gotten any DLC right so far and Hitagi/Xenother (I forgot which) said something along the lines of "No Atlus Reps" what did we get? Joker. We shouldn't fret until after the fact as DLC is a different beast entirely.

Geno may seem unlikely but so did other Characters even during base, Had it not been for Verge Ridley would've caught us so off guard and for me it still did, Simon would've caught us off guard had it not been for Verge, K. Rool DID Catch us off guard, Joker definitely did, Etc.

It's not over until it's over!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So wait. He didn't want to spoil the surprise for Cloud, but is okay with spoiling the surprise here?

And he never did mention what that picture leak was of did he? Or maybe he did and I forgot. Edit: Reread the post. So he mentioned the leak without even knowing what it was? ...Um. Okay...? Tiny bit sketch in my opinion...

I'm kinda surprised forums don't ban insiders tbh when they seem to just cause chaos under the guise of letting people know things ahead of time when it doesn't even come to fruition half the time.

Why ban insider discussion? Every community around video games discusses potential leaks and insiders. It’s pretty engrained in gaming culture by now.

Sure, people can be ****ty with it, but thats likely to happen regardless of if there are leaks or not. And also not inherently something you can blame on leak discussion either.

Besides, it’s fun to have something to talk about. Especially in a thread like this where I think we’ve all exhausted a lot of other conversation topics haha.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Why ban insider discussion? Every community around video games discusses potential leaks and insiders. It’s pretty engrained in gaming culture by now.

Sure, people can be ****ty with it, but thats likely to happen regardless of if there are leaks or not. And also not inherently something you can blame on leak discussion either.

Besides, it’s fun to have something to talk about. Especially in a thread like this where I think we’ve all exhausted a lot of other conversation topics haha.

Well to be fair I didn't say ban discussion. Just kinda shocked sites like Gamefaqs haven't banned characters like Verge is all.

I will agree on the having something to talk about bit. This dry period sucks.

 

[6eyondthegrave]

The whole SOMETHING holding Geno back is far more likely to be on Nintendo's end than on Square's though.

One of the areas I think I tend to diverge the most from supporters comes in how I analyze his chances. And the fact of the matter is that Geno's just never been in a great spot. What does Geno bring to the table, without stretching to apply him with more status than he honestly has? He's a fan request that represents Super Mario RPG... That's it. That's Geno's entire claim to fame and what he would represent.

It's difficult to make any claims about him representing Mario RPGs in total because he's from a single game and he is a less recognizable face from them overall given that fact. I see the whole, he can represent the time when Square and Nintendo worked so well together thing thrown around from time to time. But think about that for a second, do Nintendo and Square really care about representing that specific moment in their history, or is just having Cloud enough to really just say, "Hey, we're cool and working together." No other third party has a specific moment in their history really represented like that. It's just collaboration on their biggest titles in Smash, and Final Fantasy already fills that role.

He can't be promotion for anything unless Nintendo and Square have some specific ace up their sleeve with a Super Mario RPG remake or some sort of sequel. People can claim the SNES Classic, but the issue is that Nintendo didn't really take those systems seriously as Reggie says in this interview: https://kotaku.com/nintendo-s-reggie-fils-aime-on-hopes-for-an-n64-classic-1830465672. They weren't meant to be some sort of additional pillar for Nintendo, they were stop-gaps planned in the transition of the Wii U to Switch era. He also can't just come back as a Mario spinoff character because that would require the approval and dealings with Square Enix for his every appearance. I doubt Nintendo wants to have to deal with a third party when making something like Mario Kart or Mario Tennis.

Geno's a tough sale with all that in mind. Sure, Nintendo and Sakurai have given us fan favorites, but as we're all painfully aware at this point, that means relatively nothing for the rest of them. No fan favorite is guaranteed a spot on the roster, and even such an easily accessible character with a big fan base like Isaac didn't make it in. Bandanna Dee isn't in the game and he's an actively promoted Nintendo character of the past few years. Those are just a couple of examples.

And then you bring Square into the mix. Nobody really knows the narrative on Square's involvement in Smash. We're all just sort of guessing and inferring based upon the current situation. If Square Enix is so bad and difficult to work with though, that definitely does nothing but go against Geno. People often present the fact that Geno's so easy as a positive virtue of his chances, but is it. If Square is such a pain in the *** to work with, Nintendo has no reason to want to even bother. Why go through all of the work to get just Geno when he doesn't do anything other than satisfy some fans? There's a lot of other picks they can choose that don't have the Square baggage at that point and will satisfy lots of people. Suddenly, him being easier doesn't mean much of anything.

If Square's mean amiable, then another issue presents itself. Square has lots of IPs to potentially choose from, many of which are extremely popular. If you've got Square on the line, I think it could be very tempting for Nintendo to go for something bigger at that point. Super Mario RPG's one game, Dragon Quest is a 30 year long franchise that has been massive in Japan and console RPGs owe their existence to the series. Sure, you can go for the fan option at that point, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Nintendo more interested in doing something shocking or "giving fans something they didn't even know they wanted."

I don't see either narrative as super beneficial to Geno to be completely honest. And this is all kind of a moot point though... Square already agreed to Geno in the past as a Mii costume. A company like Nintendo goes to ask Square for the rights to use that character and they seem to have had no issues agreeing the last time Nintendo went for the rights. Which then leaves us with Nintendo and Sakurai. For the reasons I've discussed above, I think Geno may be a pretty difficult sale or pitch. How do you prioritize him in that mess if you're at Nintendo, or even Sakurai potentially?



I bring all of this up to achieve both to establish the idea that Geno is far from some lock character without the supposed interference of Square and also to shed light on my own personal pessimism surrounding his chances. This post is not to act as an attack towards anyone or even one singular opinion really. It's also to attempt to work from the perspective of Nintendo and Sakurai who have much more to work with and more people to satisfy than just us.

I don't personally agree that they should come to the conclusion of "no Geno" even with all those considerations and I think they should 100% go for him. There's few other characters that would show a commitment to fan demand like including a character who has no other business being in the game and Smash seems to have only moved more in that direction for Ultimate. That said, for the reasons above, I don't necessarily blame anyone who may decide against him as well and could very easily see why they might just not consider him a priority.

And that's my thing. We just have to convince Sakurai and Nintendo that he needs to be a priority. Because as soon as he is, he'll be in the game. I'll be honest, I have no idea what that entails. The most logical path to me is to just keep growing the community and not giving up the support for Geno. Even if I'm pretty pessimistic about his chances at this point, I'm still talking about him and willing to do whatever I can. We've seen the community grow a lot around Ultimate, and stuff like the tons of fan art can help raise heads. I think we have to just be persistent. That can be a thankless task, I'm well aware, but it's part of sticking to a character no matter what. Square doesn't have much of a stake in Smash. Directing our efforts toward them isn't going to help much unless we get some sort of indication that they do need further convincing for Geno's inclusion. Until then, Nintendo is and always should be our primary target in directing love and energy for Geno. He may be a tough sell, but that's why we love him and that's why we'll keep pushing.

And there are some hopeful signs right now. The Super Mario RPG references are starting to feel a little like a lot of smoke, so the question is if there is an actual fire coming later in the DLC is a more interesting one. He's still an old guard fan favorite, so his name and awareness have been kept up to varying degrees since his heyday (which honestly is probably eclipsed by the current moment) during Brawl. We've seen lots of strides toward making fan favorites playable, so that's only good news for him as well. I'm not yet convinced he's not DLC. I'm super optimistic about him, but I'm not throwing in the towel yet.



Sorry for the long post again, this is probably the rawest display of all my thoughts surrounding Geno in a very long time...

Don’t be sorry about the long post, I enjoy reading it!

 

[Datboigeno]

Well to be fair I didn't say ban discussion. Just kinda shocked sites like Gamefaqs haven't banned characters like Verge is all.

I will agree on the having something to talk about bit. This dry period sucks.

I think there’s a big difference between people like Polar who have actually provided evidence to others that they have inside sources later backed up by things they “leaked” being confirmed and people like Verge who just say vague things and are right sometimes and just expect other people to go along with no legit evidence of their sources.

 

[link2702]

Man it’s been awhile since I’ve posted anything like this but...

Don’t lose hope yet. So far none of the leakers have been able to correctly predict anything since after the games release. All we’ve had to go off of is some datamines that honestly didn’t even tell us much themselves.

Yes we need to keep expectations in check, but that doesn’t mean give up all hope entirely. Just be patient.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm very confused. There's a lot of information going around right now and I'm seeing so many things all around the internet. Was there a new leak that I missed?

 

[Ovaltine]

I'm very confused. There's a lot of information going around right now and I'm seeing so many things all around the internet. Was there a new leak that I missed?

All I know about is the thing Tansut posted, solidifying his certainty in Erdrick. I also know some Mojang employees were loudly denouncing Steve in Smash on Twitter (at least two that I know of), which, while not a deconfirmation by any means, makes me wonder if he's ever been in the running to begin with. Does Mojang and Microsoft really think of the character like that? I dunno. Taking it with a large grain of salt, but it makes me lift a brow.

Other than that, I don't know of anything else.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

All I know about is the thing Tansut posted, solidifying his certainty in Erdrick. I also know some Mojang employees were loudly denouncing Steve in Smash on Twitter (at least two that I know of), which, while not a deconfirmation by any means, makes me wonder if he's ever been in the running to begin with. Does Mojang and Microsoft really think of the character like that? I dunno. Taking it with a large grain of salt, but it makes me lift a brow.

Other than that, I don't know of anything else.

Yeah with Steve, it's a very odd situation because I feel like a company can't really address a character's chances directly if they're in the game, and since Mojang was doing that with Steve, there's a strong possibility he could've been deconfirmed. Wayforward didn't even say anything about Shantae, and she was only a Spirit. It makes me lose a bit of faith in Steve, but I'm still hoping the chance is there.

Leakers are really hyping up Erdrick...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

While I agree that nobody should be considering Erdrick a lock from just another push by Tansut. You shouldn’t really trust any leaker 100% including Polar unless their source is verified to be real. Polar’s obviously earned a lot of credit here, so she’s a little bit unique for a lot of us, but still. A leaker shouldn’t determine what is or isn’t happening unless they’re more credible or have something to prove their info. Tansut shouldn’t be an exception by any means, though he does seem to be a little bit more transparent than most, which I do appreciate. But the point stands, leakers are not infallible.

That said, Dragon Quest honestly has a great chance to get in anyway, so we should never consider it out of the running. Once again, that is and always has been independent of leakers though.

 

[GoodGrief741]

People should be extra careful with Edrick, otherwise they will fall into the "Chrom Syndrome".

Back in the Smash 4 days, everyone thought that Chrom was bascially a lock, and the "Gematsu Leak" didn't helped matters. We all know how this story went, and while Chrom got his redemption in Ultimate via echoes, not everybody else is that lucky.

So, if Erdrick doesn't get in, his newlyfound overwhelming support will get him into Smash 6?

I don't know where that leaves us though.

 

[Datboigeno]

While I agree that nobody should be considering Erdrick a lock from just another push by Tansut. You shouldn’t really trust any leaker 100% including Polar unless their source is verified to be real. Polar’s obviously earned a lot of credit here, so she’s a little bit unique for a lot of us, but still. A leaker shouldn’t determine what is or isn’t happening unless they’re more credible or have something to prove their info. Tansut shouldn’t be an exception by any means, though he does seem to be a little bit more transparent than most, which I do appreciate. But the point stands, leakers are not infallible.

That said, Dragon Quest honestly has a great chance to get in anyway, so we should never consider it out of the running. Once again, that is and always has been independent of leakers though.

Her source was verified by Fatman and a couple other long time Geno supporters last year.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Her source was verified by Fatman and a couple other long time Geno supporters last year.

She’s heard things from more than one source though, correct? I’m not referring to just the original NOA stuff, but she’s become prominent in the community and heard different things. The transparency she provides is much appreciated and her sources may seem much more legitimate.

That said, she should still be treated with skepticism like any source. Maybe not as much as others given said transparency and willingness to talk with people, but again, that’s part of being a source and not knowing necessarily all the info.

Every leaker, and I mean every leaker, should be treated with an air of skepticism unless they have physical proof.

That’s all I’m really saying. I obviously much appreciate Polar’s efforts and I enjoy the fact that we have someone so open and willing to engage with us around here. But I’m still going to treat her as I would most leakers with regards to information, which is interesting stuff that seems worth considering, but isn’t necessarily a guarantee.

Then again, I feel like I treat the average leaker with more acceptance than I know a lot of people in this thread do just because of frustrations with them at this point...

 

[NCXV]

Hello all Smash community, Geno and SMRPG Fans! I was been lurking around your post for Geno getting in to smash also I heard about your Operation Starfall on Geno and Mallow for mainline Mario Games. If your working on progress Main Website, Facebook,Youtube, Instagram, Twitter and Twitch. For my concerns of myself been waiting for Geno so long since Melee like King K.Rool, Belmonts and Ridley are in Smash Ultimate, I'll contribute and 100% support on Geno in Super Smash Bros Ultimate into integrity. I will help and grow the Geno community.

We can use Operation Starfall Hashtags like on twitter on the movement: #FreeGeno #GenoforSmash #GenoforDLC #SuperMarioRPG #Geno4DLC #FreeGenoSMRPG Like post Fan Art or anything?

 

[kiteinthesky]

Hello all Smash community, Geno and SMRPG Fans! I was been lurking around your post for Geno getting in to smash also I heard about your Operation Starfall on Geno and Mallow for mainline Mario Games. If your working on progress Main Website, Facebook,Youtube, Instagram, Twitter and Twitch. For my concerns of myself been waiting for Geno so long since Melee like King K.Rool, Belmonts and Ridley are in Smash Ultimate, I'll contribute and 100% support on Geno in Super Smash Bros Ultimate into integrity. I will help and grow the Geno community.

We can use Operation Starfall Hashtags like on twitter on the movement: #FreeGeno #GenoforSmash #GenoforDLC #SuperMarioRPG #Geno4DLC #FreeGenoSMRPG Like post Fan Art or anything?

I fundamentally don't give a **** how long it takes for Geno to become a mainstream Mario character again, I'll hang around until it happens.

What even is Operation Starfall doing that we haven't tried yet? Holding pickets at cons?

 

[Deleted member]

So, if Erdrick doesn't get in, his newlyfound overwhelming support will get him into Smash 6?

I don't know where that leaves us though.

More than likely his suppport will fade away. His popularity right now is not unlike the Chorus Kids, a character people speculate mostly only because leakers say so.

If he doesn't get in now, he will never have the same amount of support ever again unless another "leak" for him happens in the next game. Yes he will have a support base that cares about him, but don't expect him to top popularity polls or to be heavily voted and requested.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

More than likely his suppport will fade away. His popularity right now is not unlike the Chorus Kids, a character people speculate mostly only because leakers say so.

If he doesn't get in now, he will never have the same amount of support ever again unless another "leak" for him happens in the next game. Yes he will have a support base that cares about him, but don't expect him to top popularity polls or to be heavily voted and requested.

Personally, I'd prefer if this encourages people to pay more attention to Slime and/or any of the more popular secondary characters in the future. The realisation that anyone can fail to make it into Smash's roster is a bucket of cold water in the face that's sorely needed, so no one's chances can be taken as written in stone.

 

[Ovaltine]

I fundamentally don't give a **** how long it takes for Geno to become a mainstream Mario character again, I'll hang around until it happens.

What even is Operation Starfall doing that we haven't tried yet? Holding pickets at cons?

We're generally following in Rainfall's and Moonfall's steps with social media awareness, fan content, and planned events to reach out to NoA/NoJ/SE. We've got the site structurally done. We're just working on the nitty-gritty now!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Personally, I'd prefer if this encourages people to pay more attention to Slime and/or any of the more popular secondary characters in the future. The realisation that anyone can fail to make it into Smash's roster is a bucket of cold water in the face that's sorely needed, so no one's chances can be taken as written in stone.

Even though I completely support DQ in Smash, I will absolutely concede that Erdrick’s a bit disappointing when you have Slime as the obvious choice who could be so unique and is the face of the series in many ways...

But that’s just me haha.

 

[Ovaltine]

Even though I completely support DQ in Smash, I will absolutely concede that Erdrick’s a bit disappointing when you have Slime as the obvious choice who could be so unique and is the face of the series in many ways...

But that’s just me haha.

Heck, even on the heroes front, I'm seeing more people preferring V's hero and Eight over Erdrick himself, which is kind of interesting.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Even though I completely support DQ in Smash, I will absolutely concede that Erdrick’s a bit disappointing when you have Slime as the obvious choice who could be so unique and is the face of the series in many ways...

But that’s just me haha.

You ain't alone lad. People just seem skeptical of the idea that we'd get two mooks in a row.

Heck, even on the heroes front, I'm seeing more people preferring V's hero and Eight over Erdrick himself, which is kind of interesting.

It doesn't hurt that one introduced the concept of marrying one of the supporting ladies, and the other is better-known in the West (if a smidgen).

Even Solo/Sofia is more preferred.

 

[Ovaltine]

It doesn't hurt that one introduced the concept of marrying one of the supporting ladies, and the other is better-known in the West (if a smidgen).

Even Solo/Sofia is more preferred.

It's definitely pretty fascinating. I mean, the choice of Erdrick seems pretty obvious in his legendary status in the series, not to mention DQIII being Sakurai's favorite, but the general public's idea of what would best represent DQ is pretty varied.

That being said, after DQ, I wonder what else Nintendo might want to focus on from them, if anything else, in Ultimate's lifespan. FF is a big-deal peg that's been knocked down, then hypothetically DQ, the grandfather of all JRPGs. Those are their two big ones in terms of legacy. With those obligatory reps out of the way, I could see them going for a fan favorite Square pick after, whether it's Sora, Geno, or, like... Soreno. Genora. ???

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It's definitely pretty fascinating. I mean, the choice of Erdrick seems pretty obvious in his legendary status in the series, not to mention DQIII being Sakurai's favorite, but the general public's idea of what would best represent DQ is pretty varied.

That being said, after DQ, I wonder what else Nintendo might want to focus on from them, if anything else, in Ultimate's lifespan. FF is a big-deal peg that's been knocked down, then hypothetically DQ, the grandfather of all JRPGs. Those are their two big ones in terms of legacy. With those obligatory reps out of the way, I could see them going for a fan favorite Square pick after, whether it's Sora, Geno, or, like... Soreno. Genora. ???

I think that’s sort of the million dollar question for us in particular. Are Nintendo going to go back a third time to Square?

I never saw Geno and DQ as competing entities because they would be added for entirely different reasons, but when it comes to the Fighter’s Pass, I’ll admit that I really only think there’s space for one Square character. Whichever one we get, the other’s chances drop significantly. If Square’s difficult to work with, then I think we probably see the end of their cooperation in Ultimate...

As for DQ, I think it just speaks to how many of the different games seem to catch people’s hearts. The series seems to do a really good job of having fans love certain games. Though I think a lot of Eight really just is that was the first time since the NES that Dragon Quest really got pushed in the West and people are loyal to it. Dragon Quest III meanwhile was the era when the games were performing very poorly in the West, so people over here are less familiar with Erdrick specifically.

That said, Dragon Quest III basically laid the real foundation for the rest of the series and is incredibly popular and fondly remembered in Japan from what I’ve seen even if Erdrick himself isn’t always necessarily as loved. Plus, the game being Sakurai’s favorite obviously gives it a major legup in potential representation.

I think they’re are four potential DQ games you can realistically pull protagonists from: 3, 5, 8, and 11. Those have all been the most well received of the series with clear cut and defined protagonists. I think 11’s Luminary is a bit too new and he’s gotten more criticism. So really, just three games, and those are the names I tend to see most frequently myself around DQ speculation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Oh, I didn't realize Mojang employees actually came out about Steve. I guess it's okay to share then that based on things I've seen in private in the past couple of weeks that, yeah, the chances of Steve and Minecraft content in general being red herrings is fairly high. I don't want to say it's totally not happening but it's not looking very likely anymore. As for DQ stuff, nobody has shared anything new and, like I said the other day, I strongly doubt a second character will be announced before E3 at this point. I feel like Nintendo's trying to set the table for another general Direct for late April but that's only conjecture on my part.

 

[Ovaltine]

I think that’s sort of the million dollar question for us in particular. Are Nintendo going to go back a third time to Square?

I never saw Geno and DQ as competing entities because they would be added for entirely different reasons, but when it comes to the Fighter’s Pass, I’ll admit that I really only think there’s space for one Square character. Whichever one we get, the other’s chances drop significantly. If Square’s difficult to work with, then I think we probably see the end of their cooperation in Ultimate...

It might be more like a second time to Square. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I likely am, but despite being the same company now, don't Square and Enix still work rather independently of each other? It seems evident to at least some extent, because while Square's side is full of mismanagement and varying results, Enix tends to perform very smoothly. All of the bumpiest parts of Square Enix tend to be on the Square side of things, so it kind of makes me wonder.

For the Fighter's Pass, though, if either Erdrick or Geno makes it, the other will only be able to make it in by a miracle. Just one rep from the same company is what makes the most sense. If we get more than that, though, I could still see Geno making it as a Square rep, technically the second 'Square'-born rep, as Erdrick is Enix-born. It makes me wonder if Square's side is going to want more of that pudding, too, now that Enix is getting a rep. They both share from the profit pool, I think, but... hm. It's business relations we as the public are not entirely privy to, so I have no idea. It's not easy to surmise much from that.

Geno is a pretty different case from any of them. Cloud represents Square and Erdrick represents Enix. Geno represents the Mario RPGs. Despite being owned by SE, what he represents is entirely different, and apart from Mallow (and side characters), he's the only case of this. It largely reminds me of Sora, as well, since he constitutes more as a Disney rep, despite being owned by SE. They're outliers, and as A.G.L. has told me in the past over Geno, at least, that puts them in totally different leagues.

Further DLC isn't any bit cemented in stone, though. If we do get more, I could still see Geno having a fair shot if Nintendo and Square are still willing to work with each other. Given they already have Geno's rights for Ultimate, that cuts out some of that middle man, too. If we don't, Geno's 99.99% not going to make it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The more time has passed the less I've been concerned about DLC. Breath of the Wild is getting yet another DLC update in less than a month and it's over two years old now, nevermind Nintendo's unusual dedication to its mobile games. Even if there's a hiatus after the first Fighter Pass, I think this game will have a decently long DLC cycle like Nintendo's other Triple A titles.

 

[Ovaltine]

The more time has passed the less I've been concerned about DLC. Breath of the Wild is getting yet another DLC update in less than a month and it's over two years old now, nevermind Nintendo's unusual dedication to its mobile games. Even if there's a hiatus after the first Fighter Pass, I think this game will have a decently long DLC cycle like Nintendo's other Triple A titles.

That's still so nuts to me that Odyssey and BotW are getting more content after the Labo VR release. The latter especially fascinates me, because I thought BotW was definitely not getting anything else, not even anything minor. It's got me pretty interested in the future of DLC for all of Nintendo's titles.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Oh, I didn't realize Mojang employees actually came out about Steve. I guess it's okay to share then that based on things I've seen in private in the past couple of weeks that, yeah, the chances of Steve and Minecraft content in general being red herrings is fairly high. I don't want to say it's totally not happening but it's not looking very likely anymore. As for DQ stuff, nobody has shared anything new and, like I said the other day, I strongly doubt a second character will be announced before E3 at this point. I feel like Nintendo's trying to set the table for another general Direct for late April but that's only conjecture on my part.

This is some great news to wake up to.

 

[Ovaltine]

Oh, semi-recent doodle that I drew to keep my spirits up about how 1) Geno exists in general and that is a blessed thing, and 2) he might come back one day. It made me really happy to sketch him.

Also, he wants to give you a nice, warm drinkie.

Spoiler: it's xbox huge i am sorry

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The more time has passed the less I've been concerned about DLC. Breath of the Wild is getting yet another DLC update in less than a month and it's over two years old now, nevermind Nintendo's unusual dedication to its mobile games. Even if there's a hiatus after the first Fighter Pass, I think this game will have a decently long DLC cycle like Nintendo's other Triple A titles.

I mean, we still haven’t gotten anything substantial for Odyssey beyond the Balloon Wold update. Call me jaded, but the VR updates feel less like continuing a long DLC cycle and more like cash grabs to try and market their new VR device with minimal effort.

And that’s not even getting into other things. They cut off support for ARMS after a season of content. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has had a single addition in the form of the Master Cycle despite that game being ripe for additions through DLC. Pokken seems to have gotten two DLC characters and moved on as quickly as that weird as hell update came.

The only Nintendo games that even come close to inspiring me in post-release content are Splatoon 2, Kirby Star Allies, and Mario Tennis Aces. And Mario Tennis and Kirby were unfinished by pretty much all accounts at launch and seems to have been released early to fill a content gap. Splatoon 2 could arguably be put into the same category as well, but it’s been going stronger for almost two years now at least.

I wouldn’t call Nintendo’s overall DLC models with the Switch the most inspiring, especially when a lot of updates have added such little things (I mean, who the **** cares about the overpriced costumes they keep adding to Odyssey) added in. The confidence just doesn’t seem earned to me at this point.

 

[Loliko YnT]

OBJECTION! They would represent the N64.

Oh, semi-recent doodle that I drew to keep my spirits up about how 1) Geno exists in general and that is a blessed thing, and 2) he might come back one day. It made me really happy to sketch him.

Also, he wants to give you a nice, warm drinkie.

Spoiler: it's xbox huge i am sorry

And he's drinking a pick-me-up , that's just adorable. Or is that a pick-me-up mixed with a maple syrup ? Damn , I need an answer

And I knew there was something weird with Erdrick. I'm not expecting really anything but.. Not gonna lie , If I have the possibility to not deal with another swordman from Square Enix it would be... Less stressful , competitive-wise... I still have flashbacks over Sm4sh Cloud ...
But it would also be hilarious to see Erdrick getting caught in one of my Ice Climbers desync combos... Damn , I should stop lol.*

Edit: forgot to respond to retromax

Well , yeah they would also represent the N64 , a console lacking in reps in Smash.
You could make a case for Nuts and Bolt , but 95% of people who played the BK games prefer Banjo-Kazooie or Banjo-Tooie , alongside the GBA games like Grunty's revenge and Banjo Pilots.

But in their current situation , they would also represent Microsoft , a huge gaming company without any rep in smash.
They are wanted , Master Chief and Steve are very unlikely because of recent developpments... And Cup-Head/Mug-Man are in a weird spot. (They are the only other Microsoft rep I would like , I considers Conkers more a Rare rep)

But they are still third party , a big barrier for any character.
Maybe I'm stupid , but I doubt Microsoft would act like "No , not Banjo and Kazooie , pick this character instead" , that's the best way of getting denied by Sakurai.
It's more of a matter of what was Nintendo selection.

 

[Ovaltine]

I mean, we still haven’t gotten anything substantial for Odyssey beyond the Balloon Wold update. Call me jaded, but the VR updates feel less like continuing a long DLC cycle and more like cash grabs to try and market their new VR device with minimal effort.

And that’s not even getting into other things. They cut off support for ARMS after a season of content. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has had a single addition in the form of the Master Cycle despite that game being ripe for additions through DLC. Pokken seems to have gotten two DLC characters and moved on as quickly as that weird as hell update came.

The only Nintendo games that even come close to inspiring me in post-release content are Splatoon 2, Kirby Star Allies, and Mario Tennis Aces. And Mario Tennis and Kirby were unfinished by pretty much all accounts at launch and seems to have been released early to fill a content gap. Splatoon 2 could arguably be put into the same category as well, but it’s been going stronger for almost two years now at least.

I wouldn’t call Nintendo’s overall DLC models with the Switch the most inspiring, especially when a lot of updates have added such little things (I mean, who the **** cares about the overpriced costumes they keep adding to Odyssey) added in. The confidence just doesn’t seem earned to me at this point.

Well, granted, ARMS wasn't very well-received, not at all like they were expecting. It didn't have that longevity that Spla2n and Ultimate have. MK8D and Pokken are ports, so I wouldn't expect them to get much support afterward to begin with. Maybe, maybe a bit for MK8D with some luck, but definitely not Pokken, given it wasn't as big a deal as a Mario Kart game tends to be.

Splatoon 2 has been going great because of its popular status and huge amount of multiplayer support. Tennis Aces is... debatable. It's a bit on the odd side. It has an online presence, but not so much of one that it gets much more content. They mainly seem to put characters in so people can play the online, almost like they're just, "Oh god just play our online, please, you'll get a character if you do!" KSA was a hot mess and shouldn't have been rushed out the way it was. It's a great game with all of the DLC, but at launch, it was so barren. That's really the only reason it got any support after the fact.

Odyssey is single-player, and we don't know if Odyssey 2 is in the pipeline or not. Given SMG2 and the amount of unused ideas for Odyssey being a deluge of content, I wouldn't be surprised if we were getting a full-blown sequel as opposed to DLC. BotW got a nice season pass, though, and insiders are sharing whispers about a probable sequel. It did get better treatment than Odyssey, honestly... but they're both still single-player games. They're not really in the same league as games like Smash and Splatoon.

I think when it comes to DLC, MK8D, Tennis Aces, and Spla2n are what we really should look at. First is a port that could have gotten a lot of DLC, but hasn't. Tennis Aces doesn't have a huge presence online, and it's getting content to try to push more of a presence. Splatoon has a massive presence online, and it's getting a lot of consistent support. Smash is closest to Splatoon in this case, being a huge game for online playing, competitive stuff, and potential for lots of new content. It could either go the way of Splatoon then... or they can really drop the ball freaking hard. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to drop the ball like it's made of red-hot nickel, even if more DLC seems likely. T'is a rocky environment out there.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, granted, ARMS wasn't very well-received, not at all like they were expecting. It didn't have that longevity that Spla2n and Ultimate have. MK8D and Pokken are ports, so I wouldn't expect them to get much support afterward to begin with. Maybe, maybe a bit for MK8D with some luck, but definitely not Pokken, given it wasn't as big a deal as a Mario Kart game tends to be.

Splatoon 2 has been going great because of its popular status and huge amount of multiplayer support. Tennis Aces is... debatable. It's a bit on the odd side. It has an online presence, but not so much of one that it gets much more content. They mainly seem to put characters in so people can play the online, almost like they're just, "Oh god just play our online, please, you'll get a character if you do!" KSA was a hot mess and shouldn't have been rushed out the way it was. It's a great game with all of the DLC, but at launch, it was so barren. That's really the only reason it got any support after the fact.

Odyssey is single-player, and we don't know if Odyssey 2 is in the pipeline or not. Given SMG2 and the amount of unused ideas for Odyssey being a deluge of content, I wouldn't be surprised if we were getting a full-blown sequel as opposed to DLC. BotW got a nice season pass, though, and insiders are sharing whispers about a probable sequel. It did get better treatment than Odyssey, honestly... but they're both still single-player games. They're not really in the same league as games like Smash and Splatoon.

I think when it comes to DLC, MK8D, Tennis Aces, and Spla2n are what we really should look at. First is a port that could have gotten a lot of DLC, but hasn't. Tennis Aces doesn't have a huge presence online, and it's getting content to try to push more of a presence. Splatoon has a massive presence online, and it's getting a lot of consistent support. Smash is closest to Splatoon in this case, being a huge game for online playing, competitive stuff, and potential for lots of new content. It could either go the way of Splatoon then... or they can really drop the ball freaking hard. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to drop the ball like it's made of red-hot nickel, even if more DLC seems likely. T'is a rocky environment out there.

Splatoon has always been a bit of the oddity for Nintendo since it first released. No other series or even Nintendo game in general has been handled like Splatoon 1 and 2 have been. The Octoling expansion for Splatoon 2 caught me off guard like I think it did many people, but I'm really unsure of how much we can really use it to gauge what the future of Smash will be. Yes, they're similarly large titles developed with competitive crowds in mind to some degree and act as as these evergreen titles.

That said, Splatoon 2 doesn't have someone like Sakurai who is so essential to the process at the top of everything. I think most of us would struggle to really name people working on Splatoon 2, whereas Sakurai is probably the second most well known developer at Nintendo after Miyamoto. If we get Smash content, Sakurai will be the one presiding over it unless we something massive like him announcing a successor to take over the franchise. And that's really where I don't share people's optimism for another two or three years of DLC. When this Fighter's Pass is complete, it will probably be early 2020. He started Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U in early 2012. Eight years is a long time dedicated to one series like that. Even if Smash is his baby, I'd imagine at some point he'd like to move to something else for a little while. Ultimate's a big hit and does act as the most definitive Smash ever given all the characters and stages. By the time we get done with the pass, we'll have another 5 characters, 5 stages, and additional modes at least. He may even include more stuff. That's a pretty good note to end on as a developer.

And when you pair that with the fact that Nintendo has generally seemed pretty content to let DLC seasons just end and move on to what's next, then I think the outlook for Ultimate's future DLC seasons is a little more uncertain. That's why I brought up the other examples. I understand Smash is bigger, but it's also one of the most complete games we've seen on Switch. And by all accounts, I don't think it really needs DLC to maintain its sells and act as an evergreen title. It will sell just being one of the best games on the system and the most bang for your buck without even including DLC.

I think it entirely relies upon Sakurai. If he's willing to keep going after the Fighter's Pass. It'll continue, if not, we've seen the Ultimate life cycle conclude.