Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EricTheGamerman]

Hey, All. I found an interesting tidbit about Joker's addition to Smash Bros: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...out-because-masahiro-sakurai-loved-persona-5/

According to Atlus, Joker's inclusion was very much the doing of Sakurai and his own personal love for the Persona series. A few things that I took away from this:

1) If the Nintendo execs are really the ones choosing the fighter pass DLC, then did they put Sakurai up to this? Or was Sakurai full of crap and claimed it was on the execs to dodge any blame for who ends up as DLC? Not that I dislike Joker, but it sounds like Sakurai was acting on his own agenda.

2) If Nintendo is calling the shots and gave Sakurai a list from which to choose the DLC, then that means we are still very much at the mercy of Sakurai's bias and whimsy. (Which given some of his picks, I frankly don't have a lot of faith in.....then again, I'm super hype for Joker and loved Cloud's inclusion so I could always be pleasantly surprised)

Which brings me to my last bit of speculation:

3) If the execs gave Sakurai a list of possible fighters, would Geno have been on it? COULD he be on it? If he were, would Sakurai actually choose him? There have been claims since Brawl that Sakurai would have wanted Geno in, but considering the 40 characters released since then, does he really? Joker seems pretty left field as a third party, but I guess Piranha plant was as close to home as it gets. There's really no telling what could be in store for us, but I just found this article to be suspicious if true.

I'd much rather have Sakurai's bias playing more into character selection than NOJ's to be honest. I always dislike when people bring up Sakurai's supposed bias like its a bad thing. He's done nothing but make interesting character choices in Smash with the exception of clones, and we have a genuinely more unique and colorful roster due to a large amount of that bias. ROB, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Piranha Plant, and Wii Fit Trainer have all be incredibly unique fighters that show how far his creativity can go. He's made tons of extra efforts to make fan picks happen over the years while expanding the roster in notable and important ways. His bias has benefited us far more than it has ever hurt us in my opinion. I mean, really, how have his biases even hurt us? A couple of Fire Emblem characters that are either unique or straight clones, an extra Kid Icarus character maybe?, an occasional prioritization of his creative picks over fan requests? I find very little in the roster to point to and say, "That's Sakurai bias and we'd be better if without this character."

Also, I feel like the 40+ characters added since Brawl idea is a fair amount of bull****. We weren't ever going to get Geno before Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy necessitated Square be on board to play ball. At best, I think you can say that the characters released after Cloud are the supposed show of "Sakurai not wanting Geno." Corrin and Bayonetta would have been from the immediate time frame, so they really don't count. So that honestly leaves the Ultimate newcomers. A whole eight full characters have been released/announced since then: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Joker.

He's added fan requests alongside obscure picks and major new players or missing characters since Brawl. It's extremely unlikely that we'll ever get exclusively fan picks, and again, I'm very against the idea for how truly toxic it would make speculation and how boring additions would be at that point.

I agree Geno hasn't been a priority, otherwise he would be in. But there's so many other characters to consider that are also easier to work with, or maybe that he just simply wanted to develop. Sakurai is one of the few developers that seems to genuinely care about the fan base and covering as many bases as possible. I know it's very easy to say Nintendo's a big corporation and leave it at that, but we wouldn't have a game like Ultimate under a less devoted developer. So, I will defend him quite a bit, even if I don't always agree with his decisions either.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I dont know what you mean by changing your mind. It seems like he was thinking about geno strongly enough and wanted the mii costume at least.
Now we dont even know what's going on with that. There's supposed to be back dlc mii outfits at some point but it's weird to me that they're waiting so long to release them. I might want the chocobo one back too. (wouldnt mind it as a fighter either XD)

Well, it's not complicated; higher-ups from SE are being a butt about even the littlest thing now, so his hands are tied.

I'd much rather have Sakurai's bias playing more into character selection than NOJ's to be honest. I always dislike when people bring up Sakurai's supposed bias like its a bad thing. He's done nothing but make interesting character choices in Smash with the exception of clones, and we have a genuinely more unique and colorful roster due to a large amount of that bias. ROB, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Piranha Plant, and Wii Fit Trainer have all be incredibly unique fighters that show how far his creativity can go. He's made tons of extra efforts to make fan picks happen over the years while expanding the roster in notable and important ways. His bias has benefited us far more than it has ever hurt us in my opinion. I mean, really, how have his biases even hurt us? A couple of Fire Emblem characters that are either unique or straight clones, an extra Kid Icarus character maybe?, an occasional prioritization of his creative picks over fan requests? I find very little in the roster to point to and say, "That's Sakurai bias and we'd be better if without this character."

Also, I feel like the 40+ characters added since Brawl idea is a fair amount of bull****. We weren't ever going to get Geno before Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy necessitated Square be on board to play ball. At best, I think you can say that the characters released after Cloud are the supposed show of "Sakurai not wanting Geno." Corrin and Bayonetta would have been from the immediate time frame, so they really don't count. So that honestly leaves the Ultimate newcomers. A whole eight full characters have been released/announced since then: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Joker.

He's added fan requests alongside obscure picks and major new players or missing characters since Brawl. It's extremely unlikely that we'll ever get exclusively fan picks, and again, I'm very against the idea for how truly toxic it would make speculation and how boring additions would be at that point.

I agree Geno hasn't been a priority, otherwise he would be in. But there's so many other characters to consider that are also easier to work with, or maybe that he just simply wanted to develop. Sakurai is one of the few developers that seems to genuinely care about the fan base and covering as many bases as possible. I know it's very easy to say Nintendo's a big corporation and leave it at that, but we wouldn't have a game like Ultimate under a less devoted developer. So, I will defend him quite a bit, even if I don't always agree with his decisions either.

Once again, it's rare that I agree with what you say, so well said there. I mean let's consider how Ridley took so long to add because they more or less didn't know how to get him in without tearing their CPUs in half in the process. Characters get set aside for later, no matter how long it takes.

The only time bias is a problem is when it concerns getting any major content related to modern Kirby games or Kirby games Sakurai had no involvement with, and even then it's more of a comfort zone thing anyway (which is fine, new Kirby characters can wait a little longer, since that series isn't under any danger of getting cancelled). Though I still don't think Marx will be added in the foreseeable future for the time being, let's be real here.

 

[Teeb147]

Well, it's not complicated; higher-ups from SE are being a butt about even the littlest thing now, so his hands are tied.

Well, no, because it's most 3rd party costumes in general, not just SE.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, no, because it's most 3rd party costumes in general, not just SE.

Well, stuff's expensive to license back, I guess. At least Akira's an AT these days.

 

[Teeb147]

Well, stuff's expensive to license back, I guess. At least Akira's an AT these days.

We dont know the arrangements they have. It's not bad advertising for the other companies and all that at the very least. But it's not expensive at all if youre selling them and giving them a cut. Making the costumes available for purchase is what made the most sense after they werent in the base game, but It was listed somewhere that they'd have mii costumes to sell for 0.75$. All I'm saying is that it's really weird that they're waiting so long to sell them.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I wouldn't expect mii costumes to be sold until Joker is released.

edit: was thinking they'd even do bundles like in Smash 4 but that might seem weird with the pass, idk. I guess they could do separate character bundles for people who don't want the pass, and throw in some mii costumes.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Well, it's not complicated; higher-ups from SE are being a butt about even the littlest thing now, so his hands are tied.

Good to see we're still calling SE the boogeyman when they're more compliant than they ever have been since the 90's.

You are basically just making guesses at what you think is happening and pretending that is a valid reason to dismiss solid points.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Good to see we're still calling SE the boogeyman when they're more compliant than they ever have been since the 90's.

You are basically just making guesses at what you think is happening and pretending that is a valid reason to dismiss solid points.

All right fine, then I have no bleeding clue what the hold-up is then.

We most likely won't see them until the pass can actually get some traction, so discussing this matter is pointless anyway.

I wouldn't expect mii costumes to be sold until Joker is released.

edit: was thinking they'd even do bundles like in Smash 4 but that might seem weird with the pass, idk. I guess they could do separate character bundles for people who don't want the pass, and throw in some mii costumes.

We just don't know. At which point did the DLC costumes start getting distributed last time?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, it's not complicated; higher-ups from SE are being a butt about even the littlest thing now, so his hands are tied.



Once again, it's rare that I agree with what you say, so well said there. I mean let's consider how Ridley took so long to add because they more or less didn't know how to get him in without tearing their CPUs in half in the process. Characters get set aside for later, no matter how long it takes.

The only time bias is a problem is when it concerns getting any major content related to modern Kirby games or Kirby games Sakurai had no involvement with, and even then it's more of a comfort zone thing anyway (which is fine, new Kirby characters can wait a little longer, since that series isn't under any danger of getting cancelled). Though I still don't think Marx will be added in the foreseeable future for the time being, let's be real here.

I do disagree that Geno is held back by Square. I think there’s really very little to indicate Square would turn down a request from Nintendo to include him. But that’s an entire other debate I’ve gotten into before.

And if you keep agreeing with me that might bump up from “rarely” to “occasionally” haha.

I think Kirby’s in a weird place. While the series probably deserves another rep given its been a little while since we got one and the series remains a big seller for Nintendo. When you’ve got the likes of DK and Metroid finally getting additional reps, I think Kirby generally falls into the same category and goes sort of “next.”

But I don’t really understand why Kirby gets highlighted so often as symptomatic of Sakurai bias. Yes, the portrayal of the series is limited, but that feels true of all series is my thing. Donkey Kong has been limited to years of jungle stages, Fire Emblem has exclusively sword users and a couple of hybrids, Metroid relies upon lava themed stages with one exception, etc. Most series are limited in some factor with how they’re portrayed in Smash. Kirby always felt like at least it had a little more variety with stages at least. Sure, technically nothing is based on the modern era of higher substance, but that doesn’t stand out to me as particularly bad representation I guess.

Though, to be fair, nothing of newer Kirby interests me as much as classic. Marx is 100% the best fourth character choice to me, but alas he’s a boss and most of the fandom seems to have rallied behind Bandanna Dee...

 

[osby]

I wouldn't expect mii costumes to be sold until Joker is released.

edit: was thinking they'd even do bundles like in Smash 4 but that might seem weird with the pass, idk. I guess they could do separate character bundles for people who don't want the pass, and throw in some mii costumes.

I think they'll just do Mii costume bundles. Apparently they sell decently enough to keep making them.

 

[Firox]

I do disagree that Geno is held back by Square. I think there’s really very little to indicate Square would turn down a request from Nintendo to include him. But that’s an entire other debate I’ve gotten into before.

Yeah, agree or disagree, we really don't know what if anything is holding Geno back, but based on the fact that he has a sizeable fanbase and Nintendo knows it (and acknowledged it with a mii costume), we have to conclude that SOMETHING is holding him back. At least for now. The rest of the DLC will tell an interesting story, that's for sure.

 

[Ovaltine]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-196#post-19573296

Tansut is doubling down on Erdrick if there's any doubt left.

Things are looking even more certain for Erdrick now, and now that Tansut's explained his side of things, it's really clear why he's been acting the way he has over him and other info he's gotten.

Bottom line: I'd really recommend not expecting Geno in the Fighter's Pass, if at all.

 

[Teeb147]

Things are looking even more certain for Erdrick now, and now that Tansut's explained his side of things, it's really clear why he's been acting the way he has over him and other info he's gotten.

Bottom line: I'd really recommend not expecting Geno in the Fighter's Pass, if at all.

Expectation is one thing, but I think it's worth always keeping some hope, at least for those that want to continue supporting him(including for the future). He's got more chance than a lot of other characters, considering everything. But I know it's disappointing when you had your sights on him. I'm sorry about that and I hope you feel better and enjoy smash anyway, and feel good in general.

And frankly I'm not gonna celebrate until we get proper reveals. There's always such things as high-level rumors or leakbaits. I just have more hope for DQ, and i really want to know for sure, hopefully nintendo doesnt make us wait some more for too long.

 

[Ovaltine]

Expectation is one thing, but I think it's worth always keeping some hope, at least for those that want to continue supporting him. He's got more chance than a lot of other characters, considering everything. But I know it's disappointing when you had your sights on him. I'm sorry about that and I hope you feel better and enjoy smash anyway, and good in general.

Naw there is legit no hope left lmao

I'll always keep supporting him but I give up. I'm tired and done and yeah, pretty much having my most wanted dead in the water the day after my birthday, something I hated celebrating to begin with for personal reasons, ain't ****ing great

I'm just done.

 

[Teeb147]

Naw there is legit no hope left lmao

I'll always keep supporting him but I give up. I'm tired and done and yeah, pretty much having my most wanted dead in the water the day after my birthday, something I hated celebrating to begin with for personal reasons, ain't ****ing great

I'm just done.

I'm sorry to hear that. Remember there's always more cool stuff in general. but I get if it's hard or you dont have it in you for now. I wish I knew what else to say, but i do hope you feel better and at least find that spark of motivation that doesnt need hope.

Other than that let's see what happens with the games coming this year, and smash too. There's bound to be some interesting things.

 

[Deleted member]

Things are looking even more certain for Erdrick now, and now that Tansut's explained his side of things, it's really clear why he's been acting the way he has over him and other info he's gotten.

Bottom line: I'd really recommend not expecting Geno in the Fighter's Pass, if at all.

First of all, the only thing Tansut has leaked correctly in the past is Cloud, on the day of the direct, and even masked it as a prediction, also making it into a cryptic message. He's leaking Erdrick months in advance and outright saying he's in. It isn't solid enough proof for Erdrick.

Second, Sakurai has been surprising us reveal after reveal, most notably Ridley, K Rool, and Joker. After these surprises, no matter if Geno is likely or unlikely, telling us to just give up hope for Geno is ridiculous, to say the least.

 

[Ovaltine]

First of all, the only thing Tansut has leaked correctly in the past is Cloud, on the day of the direct, and even masked it as a prediction, also making it into a cryptic message. He's leaking Erdrick months in advance and outright saying he's in. It isn't solid enough proof for Erdrick.

Second, Sakurai has been surprising us reveal after reveal, most notably Ridley, K Rool, and Joker. After these surprises, no matter if Geno is likely or unlikely, telling us to just give up hope for Geno is ridiculous, to say the least.

I really just recommend tempering your hopes. It's looking pretty bad for our boy out there, as much as it pains me to say it. As for Cloud, if Tansut knew about him months in advance and had to keep quiet about that, all of that is moot point.

I admire y'all's optimism, but... I'm just done. I've just thrown in the towel by now.

 

[Deleted member]

I really just recommend tempering your hopes. It's looking pretty bad for our boy out there, as much as it pains me to say it. As for Cloud, if Tansut knew about him months in advance and had to keep quiet about that, all of that is moot point.

I admire y'all's optimism, but... I'm just done. I've just thrown in the towel by now.

I don't really think it's looking bad for our boy. Now of course I'm not going to act like he's confirmed because I learned to never for sure say that a character is or isn't happening, but I am confident about him being in wave 1.

For Tansut leaking Cloud, there isn't any reason to believe he knew about him months in advance. It's just a baseless claim with nothing going for it.

Despite all this, I see, especially after the Nov 1st direct, why you don't want to say he's likely, but I don't think you should just 100% give up on him either.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Well if Cloud was the hardest to get wouldn't that be a massive plus for Geno? I don't have much hope for him anymore but I can't deny that him being super easy to get for putting a Fan Favorite in is one of the last huge things going for him.

Think about it he's a Massive Fan-Favorite and Sakurai has almost everything he needs to put Geno in Smash all he needs is the A-Okay from Square themselves.

We have the Composer of SMRPG on board, The Rights to Geno's Likeness, Mallow's Spirit which shows they can Use SMRPG stuff and SMRPG References which is even more Evidence that they could use SMRPG stuff! That would likely mean he's one of the easiest Square Reps to get.

So He's both a Massive Fan Favorite and one of the easiest Square Reps to get which is so strange as to why they might not put Geno in Smash. Just do it you cowards!

Yeah, let's just hope Nintendo doesn't go with the alternative route: Going further, because if they try to advance than what's beyond necessary, they'll try and go for a third-party character that's almost impossible to get, even harder than Cloud.

This is also what I've been thinking about, as well. If Cloud was so hard to get, shouldn't Geno and Mallow be easier to get? They're collaborative characters that belong in a Mario/Nintendo game, and Square should be up for it if Nintendo is making a good offer.

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't really think it's looking bad for our boy. Now of course I'm not going to act like he's confirmed because I learned to never for sure say that a character is or isn't happening, but I am confident about him being in wave 1.

For Tansut leaking Cloud, there isn't any reason to believe he knew about him months in advance. It's just a baseless claim with nothing going for it.

Despite all this, I see, especially after the Nov 1st direct, why you don't want to say he's likely, but I don't think you should just 100% give up on him either.

I have to ask, what makes you so confident that he'll be in the first and possibly only wave? After Erdrick is in, I honestly don't see how Geno could make it in this wave, too. After Cloud and Erdrick, I don't know if Square and Nintendo would add another rep to all of that, at least not for the Fighter's Pass. After that November direct and this, I can't help but think his chances are completely gone now.

I'd love to be wrong, though. God, I'd love to be wrong, but I have to wonder... why should I still have any hope? What reason is there?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh, so Tansut relies on a source like anybody else, huh.

This begs the question; why would this new source not tell him to keep the character a secret, when SE would snuff out the source in a jiffy? Also, next February is a ridiculously long time for a killswitch for this supposed leak…

Would have been nice if he killed the Grinch leak before it spread out though.

Though, to be fair, nothing of newer Kirby interests me as much as classic. Marx is 100% the best fourth character choice to me, but alas he’s a boss and most of the fandom seems to have rallied behind Bandanna Dee...

If you ask me, there really ought to have been a Dedede Arena or even Butter Building stage by this point.

I have to ask, what makes you so confident that he'll be in the first and possibly only wave? After Erdrick is in, I honestly don't see how Geno could make it in this wave, too. After Cloud and Erdrick, I don't know if Square and Nintendo would add another rep to all of that, at least not for the Fighter's Pass. After that November direct and this, I can't help but think his chances are completely gone now.

I'd love to be wrong, though. God, I'd love to be wrong, but I have to wonder... why should I still have any hope? What reason is there?

Really getting sick and tired of saying this, but here goes...

Erdrick being in = SE is proven to not be cheap.
SE proven to not be cheap = actual chance to support other characters they got.
Actual chance to support other characters they got = eventual Geno inclusion.

Even if they have to include the rest of the SE Seven first, Geno may get in someday. If not in this game, maybe the next one. Just remember that as long as the Mario series lives, there's always a chance to support for his inclusion.

And it still beats having a hot topic character like Noctis or whomever...

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm guessing Tansut feels Square won't find his source as long as he doesn't mention the company by name, making it less likely for them to catch him.

If Square has employees seeing people know how obvious it is based on past info, though...

 

[Deleted member]

I have to ask, what makes you so confident that he'll be in the first and possibly only wave? After Erdrick is in, I honestly don't see how Geno could make it in this wave, too. After Cloud and Erdrick, I don't know if Square and Nintendo would add another rep to all of that, at least not for the Fighter's Pass. After that November direct and this, I can't help but think his chances are completely gone now.

I'd love to be wrong, though. God, I'd love to be wrong, but I have to wonder... why should I still have any hope? What reason is there?

Well, I don't think there's much going for Erdrick, and, with Sakurai stating he wants Geno in, with SMRPG being added to the SNES Classic in 2016, the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4, Sakurai and Nintendo obtaining the rights to Geno, Mallow, and Megasmilax and more likely any SMRPG content for Ultimate, and all the SMRPG references we've seen with the NoA tweet, the HQ trivia question, the Yoshi's craft reference, and the SMRPG battle theme music playing at a Nintendo store (or some other store, I just know the music was playing at one), it all makes me confident about him.

As for the potential waves, well, there isn't a lot pointing one way or the other, but I definitely think we're getting more after this first wave, with Nintendo saying they wanted to add more DLC to their biggest titles, and Sakurai saying he wants to do as much as he can with Ultimate.

I think you should still have hope, even if you think he is unlikely, because of Ridley and K Rool's additions to Smash. It shows the fans didn't give up on their character, and it payed off when they were added. This, along with how Sakurai can surprise us, is the main reason I think no one should give up on their character, no matter where their chances are at.

 

[Ovaltine]

Well, I don't think there's much going for Erdrick, and, with Sakurai stating he wants Geno in, with SMRPG being added to the SNES Classic in 2016, the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4, Sakurai and Nintendo obtaining the rights to Geno, Mallow, and Megasmilax and more likely any SMRPG content for Ultimate, and all the SMRPG references we've seen with the NoA tweet, the HQ trivia question, the Yoshi's craft reference, and the SMRPG battle theme music playing at a Nintendo store (or some other store, I just know the music was playing at one), it all makes me confident about him.

As for the potential waves, well, there isn't a lot pointing one way or the other, but I definitely think we're getting more after this first wave, with Nintendo saying they wanted to add more DLC to their biggest titles, and Sakurai saying he wants to do as much as he can with Ultimate.

I think you should still have hope, even if you think he is unlikely, because of Ridley and K Rool's additions to Smash. It shows the fans didn't give up on their character, and it payed off when they were added. This, along with how Sakurai can surprise us, is the main reason I think no one should give up on their character, no matter where their chances are at.

I understand that, but let's say that Erdrick gets in (which I'm absolutely positive is happening). What would you think for Geno's chances after Erdrick's hypothetical confirmation? That's what I'd want to know. As for more DLC, it seems likely, but we all know Nintendo has done stupid stuff that could have given them more money and more positive feedback in the past. I wouldn't put it past them.

I won't give up on him in general. Heavens, no. I love my boy and I will support him to my last breath. I think his chances are done, though.

 

[GillyGrime]

Does anyone have a list or source of games Sakurai particularly likes? Having seen claims he loves DQ III and Persona 5 earlier, it might help have an idea of what to expect for DLC (Please tell me he loved Banjo Kazooie ).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Also, there's no rule that says only two characters from a third-party company are allowed in a Smash entry.

This, along with how Sakurai can surprise us, is the main reason I think no one should give up on their character, no matter where their chances are at.

I wonder how likely it is for the remaining Hudson Soft characters to be unexpected picks, he he.

Does anyone have a list or source of games Sakurai particularly likes? Having seen claims he loves DQ III and Persona 5 earlier, it might help have an idea of what to expect for DLC (Please tell me he loved Banjo Kazooie ).

Didn't he stop tweeting games for a time specifically because everyone thought he was hinting at upcoming characters? Bad enough that Kumazaki can't show off his DQ stuff on instagram without people jumping to conclusions.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Does anyone have a list or source of games Sakurai particularly likes? Having seen claims he loves DQ III and Persona 5 earlier, it might help have an idea of what to expect for DLC (Please tell me he loved Banjo Kazooie ).

He considered Banjo-Kazooie for Melee and mentioned knowing how people would see them as a natural addition, though I don't think he's talked about their game or playing it specifically.

I know he likes Undertale (or at least played it), Minecraft (though Steve/a Creeper seem to be out of the running), he likes Geno so I assume SMRPG but I dunno, and...I don't know....I'm not qualified to make this post...

 

[GillyGrime]

Also, there's no rule that says only two characters from a third-party company are allowed in a Smash entry.



I wonder how likely it is for the remaining Hudson Soft characters to be unexpected picks, he he.



Didn't he stop tweeting games for a time specifically because everyone thought he was hinting at upcoming characters? Bad enough that Kumazaki can't show off his DQ stuff on instagram without people jumping to conclusions.

Oh damn yeah, I remember that, makes perfect sense haha. It's a shame the Smash fanbase can't control their hype and expectations sometimes ey, though admittedly I'm just thirsty for an update at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

I understand that, but let's say that Erdrick gets in (which I'm absolutely positive is happening). What would you think for Geno's chances after Erdrick's hypothetical confirmation? That's what I'd want to know. As for more DLC, it seems likely, but we all know Nintendo has done stupid stuff that could have given them more money and more positive feedback in the past. I wouldn't put it past them.

I won't give up on him in general. Heavens, no. I love my boy and I will support him to my last breath. I think his chances are done, though.

If Erdrick does get in, then I'd think Geno would be separate DLC. Plus, only thing saying Erdrick = no Geno is conjecture, and fan rules, especially third party fan rules, have been broken in the past.

 

[Ovaltine]

If Erdrick does get in, then I'd think Geno would be separate DLC. Plus, only thing saying Erdrick = no Geno is conjecture, and fan rules, especially third party fan rules, have been broken in the past.

That's true, but I think it's honestly a miracle we're even getting another Square character after Cloud was apparently a very pretty penny. Maybe Enix isn't as cheap-o and stingy as the Square side, which would explain the ease of getting Erdrick, whereas Square demands higher prices.

If Cloud is expensive as heck, I won't doubt that Geno's a good penny, too. They already have the rights to him now, though, so I just... gah, I don't even know anymore.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh damn yeah, I remember that, makes perfect sense haha. It's a shame the Smash fanbase can't control their hype and expectations sometimes ey, though admittedly I'm just thirsty for an update at this point.

Yeah, no kidding. Some parts of the fanbase are like Yoshimoto's army in Sengoku Basara; repeatedly giving up and getting motivated again.

At least with Sakurai saying something's coming "soon", we'll get to see what Joker and the next update are coming with in relatively short order.

 

[Deleted member]

That's true, but I think it's honestly a miracle we're even getting another Square character after Cloud was apparently a very pretty penny. Maybe Enix isn't as cheap-o and stingy as the Square side, which would explain the ease of getting Erdrick, whereas Square demands higher prices.

If Cloud is expensive as heck, I won't doubt that Geno's a good penny, too. They already have the rights to him now, though, so I just... gah, I don't even know anymore.

About SE, I honestly feel the opposite. The way people see SE being stingy with SMRPG is that the same people who developed the game are the people being stingy, but I feel like Enix is the stingy side of it, and Geno would be easier to license if he were owned by just Square.

 

[The Anigriffin]

If Brave ends up not being the Square rep at all I'm going to laugh so hard... It's what I'm leaning towards and honestly hope it's not just to give all of us a kick in the pants. Speculation is too stagnant and gatekeepy right now. We need another wildcard character in my opinion.

The fact that we haven't gotten an announcement for 3.0 dropping is weird though. Maybe it'll be on Reggies last day? It's a Monday I believe so a direct happening then is not THAT outside the realm of possibility if you ask me

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Brave ends up not being the Square rep at all I'm going to laugh so hard... It's what I'm leaning towards and honestly hope it's not just to give all of us a kick in the pants. Speculation is too stagnant and gatekeepy right now. We need another wildcard character in my opinion.

The fact that we haven't gotten an announcement for 3.0 dropping is weird though. Maybe it'll be on Reggies last day? It's a Monday I believe so a direct happening then is not THAT outside the realm of possibility if you ask me

Boldest guess I got is next week. As far as earliest deadlines go, that's the gist of it. Also, I got a laughing gif saved for the possibility you bring up in your first point.

About SE, I honestly feel the opposite. The way people see SE being stingy with SMRPG is that the same people who developed the game are the people being stingy, but I feel like Enix is the stingy side of it, and Geno would be easier to license if he were owned by just Square.

Going by that logic, there shouldn't be a DQ character in the game and oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[GenoFlash]

Things are looking even more certain for Erdrick now, and now that Tansut's explained his side of things, it's really clear why he's been acting the way he has over him and other info he's gotten.

Bottom line: I'd really recommend not expecting Geno in the Fighter's Pass, if at all.

Yeah I'm in the same spot (which makes my username and avatar awkward af). It's mostly why I don't post in this thread anymore and just stick to the Banjo thread, since I don't want to bring anyone down with my negativity.

If there were another Fighters Pass I could see it, but like where does that train of thought end? Oh in 2022 when I'm 30 I'll be able to play as Geno. Radical.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Yeah, I'll honestly consider it a Christmas miracle if Geno gets in at this point. I won't deride anyone for thinking otherwise, but that's just the way I see things.

Not that I have any expectations as far as the roster goes, anyway. I've started caring a lot more about enjoying Smash for the game itself rather than who gets in, so as long as they're fun to play, I won't really have a problem with it. It'll suck if we don't get Geno, but that's why we have stuff like Operation Starfall to keep the dream alive.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, it's pretty damn sad. The fan favorites post-ballot that got Mii costumes as a result of the ballot (or at least probably had a hand in it)? Isabelle, Inkling, K. Rool? They got to be playable. Geno? His costume isn't even back and we don't know if it will be, he's a spirit, and he's not going to be DLC. He's one of, if not the only one, that got that treatment. No SMRPG music, no other spirits beyond him and Mallow, no Mii outfit... just two spirits.

He just... got done so damn dirty. Everyone else got promoted, but Geno got demoted. I don't think I'll ever not be bitter about that.

 

[Deleted member]

and he's not going to be DLC.

We...can't be sure of anything at all. You remember how people had to eat their words when Ridley and K Rool were confirmed after they said they were never going to happen?

Boldest guess I got is next week. As far as earliest deadlines go, that's the gist of it. Also, I got a laughing gif saved for the possibility you bring up in your first point.



Going by that logic, there shouldn't be a DQ character in the game and oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.

Oh, I'm not saying that definitely means no DQ, I was just mainly referring to Geno and how I think he'd be easier to license of he were only owned by Square.

 

[Xevious 1]

I'd much rather have Sakurai's bias playing more into character selection than NOJ's to be honest. I always dislike when people bring up Sakurai's supposed bias like its a bad thing. He's done nothing but make interesting character choices in Smash with the exception of clones, and we have a genuinely more unique and colorful roster due to a large amount of that bias. ROB, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Piranha Plant, and Wii Fit Trainer have all be incredibly unique fighters that show how far his creativity can go. He's made tons of extra efforts to make fan picks happen over the years while expanding the roster in notable and important ways. His bias has benefited us far more than it has ever hurt us in my opinion. I mean, really, how have his biases even hurt us? A couple of Fire Emblem characters that are either unique or straight clones, an extra Kid Icarus character maybe?, an occasional prioritization of his creative picks over fan requests? I find very little in the roster to point to and say, "That's Sakurai bias and we'd be better if without this character."

Also, I feel like the 40+ characters added since Brawl idea is a fair amount of bull****. We weren't ever going to get Geno before Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy necessitated Square be on board to play ball. At best, I think you can say that the characters released after Cloud are the supposed show of "Sakurai not wanting Geno." Corrin and Bayonetta would have been from the immediate time frame, so they really don't count. So that honestly leaves the Ultimate newcomers. A whole eight full characters have been released/announced since then: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Joker.

He's added fan requests alongside obscure picks and major new players or missing characters since Brawl. It's extremely unlikely that we'll ever get exclusively fan picks, and again, I'm very against the idea for how truly toxic it would make speculation and how boring additions would be at that point.

I agree Geno hasn't been a priority, otherwise he would be in. But there's so many other characters to consider that are also easier to work with, or maybe that he just simply wanted to develop. Sakurai is one of the few developers that seems to genuinely care about the fan base and covering as many bases as possible. I know it's very easy to say Nintendo's a big corporation and leave it at that, but we wouldn't have a game like Ultimate under a less devoted developer. So, I will defend him quite a bit, even if I don't always agree with his decisions either.

I really don't think he has a bias either. Donkey Kong lacked relevancy until DKC Returns and that didn't even have KRool, Metroid doesn't have many characters to choose from besides Ridley, Mario/Pokemon/Fire Emblem have a ton of characters to work with compared to other franchises, Dark Pit probably took a day to make, and Corrin was only added because the FE Fates developers insited. I think he tries his best to add fan favorites, new recent characters, old school characters, characters that appeal to Japan, and characters that appeal to the west.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I really don't think he has a bias either. Donkey Kong lacked relevancy until DKC Returns and that didn't even have KRool, Metroid doesn't have many characters to choose from besides Ridley, Mario/Pokemon/Fire Emblem have a ton of characters to work with compared to other franchises, Dark Pit probably took a day to make, and Corrin was only added because the FE Fates developers insited. I think he tries his best to add fan favorites, new recent characters, old school characters, characters that appeal to Japan, and characters that appeal to the west.

In any case, I think we can agree that general content distribution is really weird, overall (except for Mario, because go figure, that one's a big deal).

I bet that if one of us was actually in Sakurai's shoes, their head would also spin trying to make sense out of which characters to prioritise and which to save for another time, if ever.